Footballking16

What top 5 club was Center Grove in for any of their state championships?

You act like Fishers has grown by 1500 students in the last 5 years. They haven't. They've always been one of the larger biggest class schools even since their split. Fishers isn't magically going to become a better football school because they add a couple hundred more students a year. Noblesville has been growing every year and doesn't have a winning season since 2001.

Now explain Noblesville.

They were 3-8 last year with a Top 5 enrollment. Is it now suddenly going to change?

That is simply not true. HSE (as one high school) was a mega enrollement school and Noblesville for the last 15 years has always been one of the largest HCC schools. It certainly was bigger than Avon, Brownsburg, Westfield, Zionsville, and the Lafayette Schools when they were members. That's an arbitrary and really an irrelevant statement. Can a school with 3000+ kids not produce a D1 caliber QB? Why hasn't Carmel and their 5400 kids not produced a D1 QB since Morgan Newton?

Who is the last D1 caliber QB to come from Carmel High School?

At what point does the number of students become redundant in terms of fielding a competitive football team in your opinion? 1000, 2000, 2500, 3000? Once you cross a certain threshold of students, I believe the enrollment figure becomes irrelevant. Carmel isn't better than Noblesville because they have 5400 students and Noblesville only has 3100 students. Hell Columbus East is better than Noblesville and they only have 1500 students. At that point it has everything to do, how you said, with utilizing your resources. Does Noblesville have a good feeder program? Does Noblesville have an A+ coaching staff? Is the school corporation committed to winning? Is there a big community support/follow? It's the latter sentiments that form the DNA of a successful football program. Once you hit X amount of students it really doesn't matter.

What advantage is it to North Central, Fishers, HSE, Pike, Lake Central, Noblesville i.e six of the ten largest high schools in the state? Fishers, HSE, and Noblesville are the three largest schools in the HCC and arguably the three worst football schools in the conference. I want to know where this higher enrollment advantage comes into play? Or is it the socioeconomic factor? You tell me.

I agree with you, but it's stupid (as well as lazy) to write off a school because they are at an enrollment disadvantage (comparatively) or have a low socioeconomic demographic. You have two posters on here who live and die by that sword but can't offer an explanation as to why their narrative just doesn't fit.

Advantage over who? No I'm not going to say that schools like Noblesville, HSE, Fishers, Lake Central, etc have an advantage over a school like Center Grove despite having 1000+ more students. Would be ridiculous and untrue. Why can't schools like Noblesville, HSE, and Fishers consistently field good football teams despite having mega-enrollments and some of the highest socioeconomic demographics in the state?

Who said anything about turning Gary West into a football power? It is however mind-numbingly dumb to insinuate that having success is only attributed to high enrollment and high socioeconomic demographics. I've provided examples on both ends of the spectrum as to why that isn't the case and in a few examples had both high enrollment and high socioeconomic that contradict your agenda. You look at any program in the state of Indiana that has had sustained success over the years, culture, coaching, and commitment are the common themes. Most have at least two, some all three. You taking the absolute most extreme examples outliers in each scenario to try and prove a point isn't helping your cause.

Also, Washington Township is the middle township on the North Side of Indy, hence North + Central. When North Central opened in the 50's many students came from outside the city limits and started to cut into the enrollments of Broad Ripple and Shortridge.

BuT WhAt ABoUt SoCIeoEcONomiC DEmOGrApHIcS?

They have 2 state titles since 2014 and have been to semi-state 3 other times in said timeframe. They’re doing just fine.

That is attributed to the rise of Center Grove and Carmel’s Renaissance.

Avon and Brownsburg have definitely moved the needle and at the expense of Ben Davis to a degree, but do you see either of them consistently supplanting Ben Davis as the west side football school? I don’t.

I don’t believe BD is growing any more either, but people have been moving out of the city for 30 years and it hasn’t affected Ben Davis and its ability to consistently be successful in football. Been hearing for years the HCC is going to supplant the MIC and well, we’re waiting.

Been hearing this for 10 years. The 4 best 6A programs in the state are Ben Davis, Carmel, Center Grove, and Warren and there’s a considerable gap between the rest. Warren just hired a hall of fame coach....away from one of of the fastest rising, fastest growing school corporations in the state. Tells you everything you need to know. Ben Davis was an extremely young team last year that caught fire down the stretch. They are probably the biggest threat to Center Grove next year. BD and Warren have been consistently good for the last 30-40 years and urban sprawl isn’t something new. Look for BD and Warren to continue to stay good for as long as they so wish.

They aren’t within 3 TD’s of Ben Davis. Ben Davis is arguably the biggest threat to Center Grove this coming year. Extremely young team last year. HSE and Fishers are a combined 1-5 against North Central the last three years of all teams.

What sectional is Noblesville winning if they went South? Same goes for HSE and Fishers? None, despite having a significant socioeconomic advantage.

Without me scrolling back five pages, what is the difference between Tech and WC? Facilities, coaching, culture.

Why couldn’t they?

North Central, Pike? HSE and Fishers at one time, for a long time, was one high school. My point remains. Noblesville is worse today than they were 10 years ago.

If having a large enrollment was the sole reason to success, there’s no way North Central, Pike, Lake Central are as bad as they’ve been for this long. Culture, commitment, coaching. Common theme. Anyone doubt that with O’Shea’s turn around at NC?

I’ve provided examples in Noblesville, HSE, Fishers as to why your socioeconomic argument completely falls apart.