Footballking16

You’re trying to convince people why Penn should move to the DAC. Penn already plays the best team in the DAC ever year anyway, and they play 5 other opponents who are just as good, if not better than any other team in the DAC. That’s 2/3rds of their schedule. What advantageous gain does Penn have moving to the DAC? None. Sure Penn and Elkhart moving to the DAC improves the DAC, but it does nothing for Penn and Elkhart.

I don’t know how long the contracts with St. X and Cathedral are scheduled, but Penn would have no problem replacing them with likewise programs when they end, something that would no longer be an option if they joined the DAC. Same with Mishawaka and their rival status. I don’t think you realize how bad the DAC is once you get past Merrillville, Michigan City on occasion, and Valpo who they play every year anyway. Penn doesn’t need the DAC and play a tougher schedule under their current alignment now that they would ever stand to play under your DAC proposal. You let me know when scheduling becomes a problem for Penn, because it’s never been a problem before.

Without question a massive demotion and a huge disservice to a team trying to win 6A. Giving up Cathedral, St. X, Mishawaka, and Marian to play Lake Central, Chesterton, La Porte doesn’t make any sense.

Penn plays one 3A opponent and that one 3A opponent finished higher rated in Sagarin than any team Penn would stand to play in your new proposed alignment, with the exception of Valpo and Elkhart who they play annually anyway. Penn in their current conference playing: St. X Cathedral Valpo Elkhart Mishawaka Marian Is a tougher schedule than Penn stands to play in any year under your DAC proposal without question. No contest.

Penn plays Valpo, Cathedral, and St. X next year. Those 3 games alone prepare Penn better than any year they stand to be in the DAC under your proposal. Your proposal has Penn in a division with all 5A teams with the exception of Elkhart who they already play anyway and a guaranteed crossover game with 6A Lake Central who wouldn’t beat most 4A teams. It’s a huge demotion and disservice to Penn under that alignment.

Why would Penn join that conference under that scenario? They already play Valpo every year anyway, joining the DAC to gain a new opponent in Lake Central and play Merrillville/Crown Point every 3 years doesn’t prepare them for any Indy teams. Sorry.

DAC teams already have to find two non-conference opponents as is. Adding two more isn’t nearly as difficult as you think considering most the current DAC schools are located in a metropolitan area with nearly 10 million people. I think you’re just arguing for the sake of argument at this point. There’s no logical reason where joining a 12 team conference with the intention of never scheduling a fourth of the members makes any sense. A 6 team conference of: Penn Elkhart Valpo Michigan City Merrillville La Porte is just as strong as a 12 team conference (with those 6 included) minus the deadweight.

What is the point of being in a 12 team conference if you’re never going to play 3-4 of the teams then lol? Quality over quantity in this scenario. You’re better off forming a 6 team conference in which you’re playing quality opponent week in and week out.

I’m not overthinking anything. How does DT’s new DAC alignment benefit a school like Merrillville? None of Merrillville’s DAC East divisional opponents prepare Merrillville for a 6A Indy team and given there’s only 3 crossover games, there’s no guarantee Merrillville plays Valpo/Elkhart/Penn in any given year and in certain years may miss all three together. Take DT’s DAC East proposal and replace Chesterton with Merrillville, and you still have 3-4 LOS hopefuls but in a conference with half the teams. Gives you 4 open weeks to schedule better opponents. It really is that simple.

You can do a DAC contraction and say the same thing. It’d actually be true. Valpo, Merrillville, MC, and let’s say Crown Point would all be better off leaving the DAC and joining Penn and/or Elkhart to make a 5-6 team conference. Would give each school much more flexibility at adding quality opponents to the schedule. I see no advantageous gain being in a conference in this day and age given our postseason format. Being in a conference is nothing more than a schedule placeholder. Winning your conference doesn’t reward your seeding, opponent, or venue location come tournament time. Unless you play in a conference that has decent parity (MIC/HCC/SIAC), expansion makes little to no sense.

The ACC plays a championship game at the end of the year between the two division winners that crowns a true conference champion. I don’t think adding Penn to the DAC does anything to raise the DAC’s profile. There’s 2-3 teams in the DAC that in any given year has a rays chance of making it to LOS, that doesn’t change adding Penn. Play your 7 game DAC schedule if you’re Merrillville, Valpo, or Michigan City and then add Penn and/or Elkhart as one of your non-conference opponents. Valpo essentially already does this.

Seems compelling for football but don't see the need for expansion if a) you don't play everyone in your conference on a yearly basis b) a true conference champion isn't crowned. Would the new scheduling format with the newly formed divisions be that more advantageous?

They call those "reefers" in the logistics industry, but I could see why that may not fly lol. George Hammond also ran one of the largest meat packing pants in the Midwest at the time with the largest plant being in Hammond although Hammond Packers isn't that innovative.

Most can't. 2/3 of the school is on some kind of financial aid.

You’d be better off at North Central. Don’t let the fact that they have a large FRL % fool you, NC has one of the best theater and drama programs in the state. And it’s free!

Clearly

Lol. Yet you still can’t explain why 6 of the 10 largest high schools in the state (and 3 of those with <20% FRL) have average to terrible football programs, despite meeting the two metrics (mega-enrollment/SES) that are impossible to overcome. It’s no surprise you continue to dance around and talk in circles, because it doesn’t fit your narrative.

Lol. I grew up in Washington Twp and live in Fishers today, both schools in the same metropolis with 3000+ kids who don’t have good football programs. There’s about 400-450 kids who apply to Cathedral a year from the same metropolis that have the same ability to go to HSE or North Central as they please. Not sure what that comment has to do with anything?

Correct. All three reasons you’ve listed ascribe lack of coaching/culture/commitment to a T.

I was looking at Lake Station FRL %, my mistake, which is extremely high. Lake Central has an enrollment and SES similar to that of the Hamilton Co HCC schools. They don't have a good football program which furthers my point that enrollment and SES don't mean a thing. Again, has worked out well for Pike and North Central over the years. How is it that 3 schools within a 20 miles radius (North Central/Pike/Warren) with similar enrollments and SES can be be on such opposite ends of the spectrum when it comes to football success. Surely has nothing to do with coaching/culture/commitment, right? They aren't. I've given you half a dozen examples of why that simply isn't true. You have no rebuttal. Show me a successful program who doesn't have a combination of strong coaching/culture/commitment. Those are the most important factors. Clearly. What does me attending Cathedral over 15 years ago have anything to do with this? I haven't mentioned Cathedral once.

Good analysis. Appreciate it. @temptationwill spin this in a way that shows a low SES can be overcome by a mega-enrollment only to sit on his hands and not be able to explain the decades long struggles of North Central, Pike, and Lake Central who have SES similar to Warren and Ben Davis as well enrollment. Rinse, wash, repeat.

Well duh they're still "good programs" when compared to the other 350 some playing football programs in this state. Not sure that makes it some kind of accomplishment, especially considering they have mega-enrollments and/or very high socioeconomic demographics, the two metrics you claim no program can overcome regardless of how untrue that statement may be. So clearly high enrollment and SES aren't the only two metrics impossible to overcome? Glad we got that out of the way There's 3500 kids at Pike and 3700 kids at North Central. I don't care who is moving where, that isn't a crutch. Isn't it coincidental that once North Central hired a proven coach and made a commitment to its football program you started to see results? Shocking I know. Nearly happened last time they tried it, Streiff just didn't stick around long enough even though NC was on their way.

Tradition I would lump into culture, but I have maintained the three most important aspects to sustaining a successful program is coaching, culture, and commitment. Warren Central has all three of those factors, cannot say the same for Pike even though they share similar enrollments and socioeconomic demographics.

North Central Pike Lake Central Noblesville HSE Fishers All schools with either mega-enrollments or high socioeconomic demographics and in some cases both. All have average to terrible football programs despite possessing the two metrics you deem impossible to overcome. You're talking in circles and looking more and more ridiculous with each passing post. What is the difference between Pike and Warren Cenntral. And don't you dare tell me 200 students.

LOL. How much did it pain you to say commitment/culture plays a much bigger factor than what you are giving credit? How can Lake Central field a non-competitive football team but has a championship caliber baseball program?