FastpacedO

12 hours ago, temptation said:

What’s with all of the outrage?  Pretty factual piece other than the private/parochial quote.

There was some non-factual information. Only the last 8 State Championships in the largest class have been won by MIC schools. 2012-13 season was won by Lawrence Central. They are in the MIC now but they were not when they won the 5A State Championship. Larence Central and Pike were both in Conference Indiana at the time. 2 years prior to that Fishers beat Lawrence Central (2 non MIC teams).

1 hour ago, Titan32 said:

We have a many of the attributes mentioned repeatedly on the GID that folks say it takes to be successful in football.  We work hard to maintain them.  We also have a good program for physically and mentally challenged kids (another factor in the enrollment at many publics).

P/P may not have mentally challenged kids, but there most certainly are physically challenged kids at P/P.

16 hours ago, Whiting89 said:

Split private and public into there own tournament

private is 2 classes big and small

public goes on as is now 1-6 with success factor

will create parity and easy to implement 

 

 

Asnine, no parity created. Literally you are talking about  maybe 20 teams in P/P split into 2.

20 hours ago, Lysander said:

Just goes to show, Catholics do more with less.

Honestly I don't know that Chatard had a super star at any position. However I think they had excellent players as a collective group. Nobody really stood out or would wow you in the stats, but they played solid fundamental football. The ultimate team I guess you would say. They kind of spread the wealth around.

1 hour ago, foxbat said:

 

It might have been a mistake, but as @temptation the notice came down of a change in venue on Tuesday of gameweek. 

The odd thing about it all, which leads to questions of inconsistency is that TPCS had the same thing happen the week before with Clinton Prairie except it was Clinton Prairie that had to drop out due to COVID and it was considered a forfeit by CP.  Up to and through that point, it appeared that the IHSAA was considering things based solely on the normal logistics which is based on location and not who won or lost and considering a team that won by a forfeit the home team for that match-up even if they were scheduled away.  It also seemed to be working on the premise that a bye only exists based on a traditional scheduling bye ... i.e., first round bye or uneven teams in subsequent rounds byes.  In the end, for LCC, it didn't necessarily matter other than the long trip, because if you lose a semi-state game by 35 points, it's not the location that mattered.  Could have played at South Adams, LaRocca, in a box with a fox, in a house with a mouse, ... the end result would have been the same.

Yes, sounds like someone fudged up there.

Just have to ask where do you prefer to eat your green eggs and ham?

1 hour ago, Grandpa B said:

Greatly appreciate the response (and one not laced with jams at Roncalli).  I still have one question.  Can a student receive both financial aid from Cathedral and vouchers from the state.?  My understanding is that COULD almost equate to going to the school for free.   As I previously stated, (prior to the jams by IndianaWrestlingGuy), that is a great benefit that Cathedral can provide (especailly to low income families) if true and one in which I hope someday Roncalli could provide.   My understanding is that Roncalli students can accept either Vouchers from the state or Financial Aid from Roncalli but not both.   Thanks for helping to clarify.  

The way it was explained to me was you could not get both SGO and Financial Aid or Vouchers and Financial Aid or SGO and Vouchers. When you apply for Voucher you are getting just Voucher, when you apply for SGO you are getting just SGO, and when you apply for Financial Aid you are getting just Financial Aid. The only thing that can be added on to any of the 3 are the 2 merit scholarships. The Presidential Scholarship ($3,000 per year / $12,00 for 4 years) and Cathedral Scholarship ($1,500 per year / $6,000 over 4 years). In order to qualify for those the Presidential Scholarship you have to score 98th to 99th percentile on the placement exam and Cathedral Scholarship 96th or 97th percentile on the placement exam. They are renewable each year only as long as the student maintains a 3.5 GPA or higher and takes Honors classes or higher (and of course maintains proper behavior). Hope this helped. 

40 minutes ago, foxbat said:

Given the misinterpretations, I'd be fairly active in changing the wording of what I put on the site.  I always tell my students that reality isn't reality; perception is reality ... especially in this social media world.  It's not an issue for the folks who are bought in and understand, it's a potential distraction and problem area for those who aren't onboard.  It's not a knock on Cathedral or anyone else, but whenever possible, take control of the narrative before your opponents or detractors do.  The last thing you want to have to do is spend column inches, posts, tweets, or whatever it is addressing it when you could be spending that real estate/time on promoting the other things.

How about something on the website that reads, "Shamrock Scholars grantors provide much needed and much appreciated support to the continuing education of Cathedral students receiving need-based tuition assistance scholarship. For more information about becoming a Shamrock Scholars grantor, please contact the Cathedral Development Office."?  You can always announce what that amount is ... the quarter, half, or full ... at the awards recognition banquet where you don't have to worry about, or worse have to defend, that.

Possibly, I didn't type it only inquired about options when I was looking to send my children there. I would guess it wasn't in the thought process when typing out things for the website.

32 minutes ago, DL6 said:

Great post, and thanks for the explanation. I stand corrected. I have been told by a few people I know that they attended Cathedral “for free,” but I have no evidence of that and if what you’re saying is true, then it’s likely they weren’t completely honest with me. Thanks for the info!

 

You are not wrong though that there are some differences between Private and Parochial. Some are advantages for one over the other and some are disadvantages. Regardless the whole P/P vs Public is pretty moot with Open Enrollment for Public schools. Especially when that fee for an out of district at a Public school is far less than the tuition at a Private or Parochial.

I have no doubt you were looking for answers to what you read. Just wanted to give my personal experience when I actually inquired to the school about options.

13 hours ago, foxbat said:

It's that Sectional Champion item that's in question and what @temptation might have been alluding too.  LCC was supposed to play TPCS in the Sectional Championship as the AWAY team.  TCPS forfeited due to COVID.  That would have then triggered the seldom-used clause, "*If regional winner has not hosted either sectional final or regional, that school will be the designated host."  IHSAA ended up treating that game as an LCC home game and that's what made the other clause, "*Regional non-host, if applicable, or higher sectional # (i.e., Sect. 2 is higher than Sect. 1)" kick in.  LCC played one game of four actually played in post-season at home ... opening weekend ... and one of five scheduled at home.  It was scheduled to play sectional championship away ... played the regional away ... and played semi-state away too. 

Makes sense. Perhaps a mistake on their part? However it was pretty cut and dry in the case of Zionsville vs Dwenger as a forfeit is not treated as a bye.

11 hours ago, Grover said:

They showed that one good year doesn't mean anything when Russ Yeast didn't win.

Agreed!

44 minutes ago, Bobref said:

And this is the problem. There is an entire generation of coaches and fans who have never known anything but the all in, and who, as a result, have been infected with the “entitlement” mentality. It is exactly the opposite of the valuable lessons football is supposed to teach us: that nothing comes without earning it, and that you only get back what you put into it.

If the practical reality of trying to run an all in tournament with that many schools is the only reason states like Ohio don’t have an all in tournament, what about those states that have a lower number of football playing schools than Indiana? There are 33 states that have a lower population than Indiana, and about the same number that have fewer schools. What’s their excuse? Ohio has had their taste of the all in. If it’s a superior system, people are going to start beating the drum for change. But I certainly don’t hear anything like that coming from the East.

 

I certainly don't have entitlement. I simply said I don't understand where the thought comes that playoffs are an earned thing. Yes some states do it that way, but playoffs simply is a system of games after the regular season to decide which teams advance to play for the championship. There are multiple ways to hold a playoff.

You won't hear anything positive about the all in format used by Ohio this year. There are 2 reasons for that. The first is they did not like having 6 only 6 regular season games. The second and most important is how the seeding was decided in each Region. Leaving it to coaches votes where a conference could intentionally vote other teams lower to gain homefield advantage in the later games. Like I said you can have an all in format and make regular season games have more meaning by seeding and using ability to gain homefield advantage. You can also have a earn your way in playoff, but they would have to come up with something similar to Ohio's Harbin points because Sagarin will NOT work as it doesn't account for out of state opponents.

9 hours ago, DL6 said:

Ok. Sorry to upset you. Was just quoting your website (which very clearly states that full tuition is offered through the program.)

If that is a misprint on the website, then I hope it is corrected.

And literally the best player on Cathedral’s team this year is from St. Roch, so I’m not sure where you’re going with the “Roncalli doesn’t have to compete for students” narrative.

It is not a misprint just a misinterpretation of the wording. I will explain to you and @Grandpa B from when I inquired about the Shamrock Scholar Program with the director of admissions 8 and 9 years ago when looking to send my children to Cathedral. It specifically states "Shamrock Scholar grantors choose to provide a quarter, half or full need-based tuition assistance scholarship" not "Shamrock Scholar grantors choose to provide a quarter, half or full tuition assistance scholarship". It is not for a quarter, half, or full tuition of $15,756. It is for quarter, half, or full need-based portion of tuition (or financial aid). So if a family applies for financial aid for the $15,756 and it is decided to give $8,000 in Financial Aid the donor's for the Shamrock Scholar are providing a quarter, half, or the full of that $8,000 (so $2,000, $4,000, or $8,000 just an example).

Alumni and families donate in many ways to the Financial Aid funds, the amount awarded in Financial Aid is determined by an application process that comes from tax documentation. What Shamrock Scholar allows is for the donors not only to give money for Financial Aid but to be more involved than just donating money for Financial Aid and becoming a mentor for the child receiving financial aid. That is what was explained to me when I inquired while looking t send my children there. Hope that helps without the "fireworks"😆

7 hours ago, DL6 said:

They advertise at the school and sponsor events (festivals, athletic events, etc.).

Just one way Cathedral is different from parochials. For instance, Chatard is restricted from doing something like this because Nativity is a south deanery parish and Chatard is a north deanery high school.

You’ll find plenty of students at Cathedral from the south deanery. Very few (if any) at Chatard.

Yes Cathedral does sponsor events at many of the deanery schools. There is a reason for that. Cathedral actually was one of the original Archdioscese High Schools and located downtown Indianapolis opening in 1918. Long before Sacred Heart was built 1930 (renamed Kennedy in 1966), Scecina 1953, Chatard 1960, Chatrand 1962, Ritter 1964, and Roncalli formed from consolidation of Chatrand and Kennedy in 1969. Those schools were being built because of overcrowding of Cathedral High School. The Archdiocese decided to close Cathedral's doors and the school was reopened by alumni who moved it to it's current location. Cathedral has long standing roots with all of the deanery schools across Indianapolis. There are many legacy alumni names from all of the deanery schools. That is why still to this day sponsor events in North, East, South, and West deanery schools.

Nobody will ever deny that kids attend Cathedral from all 4 of those deanery's. And yes there have been families from West Deanery schools that have sent their kids to Roncalli and Chatard same as East Deanery, but that was the choice of those families (some of which are legacy kids that had parents that attended Roncalli or Chatard). 

18 minutes ago, temptation said:

Now do LCC/South Adams.

LCC

Sectional Champ LCC Home team

Regional LCC Away team

South Adams

Sectional Champ South Adams Home

Regional South Adams Away

Semi-State = 

Classes 2A, 4A & 6A
*Regional non-host, if applicable, or lower sectional # (i.e., Sect. 1 is lower than Sect. 2)

Classes A, 3A & 5A
*Regional non-host, if applicable, or higher sectional # (i.e., Sect. 2 is higher than Sect. 1)

Both LCC and South Adams were Away for Regionals so both were non-host. LCC is in Sectional 42 and South Adams in Sectional 43 Sectional 43 is higher than Sectional 42.

On 11/29/2020 at 11:46 AM, temptation said:

The only thing I know you are right about is the fact that the semi-state game should have been played in Fort Wayne.

I have been seeing many mention that the Regional game (not Semi-State game) should have been played in Fort Wayne. I am assuming because people are deeming that Zionsville had a Bye in Sectionals. It actually was a forfeit not a bye and should be listed as a 2-0 Zionsville win and Zionsville was listed as the Away team while Dwenger won at home. By the brackets with Zionsville was Away and Dwenger at Home it slated the Regional as home for Zionsville. Big difference between a Bye and a Forfeit. 

2 minutes ago, dmizers3 said:

Because if you're 1-8 or in hoops 5-15 what have you done to earn a playoff spot?

I guess I don't quite understand, who says you have to earn spots into playoffs? I mean I know there are pro, college, and High School states that do a playoff format that you have to earn your way in. That being said there is more than 1 playoff format: Single elimination, step ladder, double elimination, best of format, and Round Robin. As much as there is pointed at Ohio because they have a playoff you have to earn your way in, they do that because there are 700+ High Schools playing football. The numbers in Texas and California are very high too. Running an all in format wouldn't be possible without shortening the regular season (see Ohio this year 6 Reg season games). In Indiana there are about 320 football playing high schools so hosting an all in with 9 regular season games is doable. Yes I know many say it would make regular season more meaningful, but you could make it more meaningful with a seeeding process and home field advantage 2. There is not just "1" way to host a playoff. The term playoff in the dictionary doesn't specify you have to earn your way in, its simply a system of games after the regular season to decide which teams advance to play for the championship. 

1 hour ago, Jon said:

Center grove coaching staff did nothing to help Steele out in the stat game.

cg total rushing plays 607 Steele 264 

Example: Steele Rushing: Att 4  yrds 46  avg 11.5 tds 3  Recieving: Att 1 yrds 41 tds 1

Second RB Daniel Weems Att 7 yrds 32 avg 4.6  tds 2

Why would second RB get more attempts than number one?

Because a great team isn't about stats, nor is the game of football. So if a coach see's a team loading the box with 8 players and you have the top RB in the state, do you run it or do you hit a quick pass. Likely that game what the defense was giving was running plays that were better for Daniel Weems because they were taking away the run plays that could go to Carson Steele. In jest it's not about getting a player stats its about winning the game and what plays can get you to that. As many yards as Nate McCahill had, a lot of it was reading what the defense was giving. Be is it on the Zone Read or Run pass option. McCahill had very little rush yards against Zionsville. Zionsville took that away placing focus on stopping him run. So in turn he handed to Langson who ripped off 136 yards rushing and they turned to the air more where McCahill passed for 300+.

2 hours ago, southend said:

Wow, they have won their last 12 state championship appearances .

Yes. According to Harrell the last State Championship loss for Cathedral was in 1991 losing to FW Dwenger 34-27. . I believe Coach Peebles brother Terry was QB for that Cathedral team.

7 minutes ago, temptation said:

Not sure why we are even having this conversation.  Was Steele defending those 17 passes McCahill threw?  Too many in-game variables (mentioned above) to try to use the transitive property.

I'd ask what Steele's stats were against Cathedral but it does not matter because McCahill wasn't playing defense.

This isn't an NFL promo where folks are tricked into tuning in for Brees vs Brady.  In fact it's Brees vs Brady's defense and vice versa.

Ding Ding winner winner chicken dinner. What did Carson Steel do against Indiana's #1 Defense CG? We'll never know because he never played for the mentioned teams.

12 minutes ago, Jon said:

if CG did not throw pick 6, If CG did not miss easy field goal, ... CG Wins easy. Both sides could If all day long. At the end of day Cathedral QB Had 126 yds passing and 2 yds rushing

He also didn't throw as many passes in the 4th qtr because they were protecting a lead and running the ball well with Jake Langdon. I just gave a better picture of the scores of those games, comp percentage, TD's and Int's. Shows a better picture of why he may have only thrown for 123 yds compared to some other QB's who were chucking it up because they were down 35.

1 hour ago, Jon said:

Against Best defense in the state of Indiana (Center Grove) Cathedral Nathan Mccahill had the 7th best performance

1. Lawrence North Donaven Mcculle
   • Pass: 16-28, 256 yds, 1 tds   
2. Ben Davis J'uan Swanson - Jr
   •  Pass: 17-27, 223 yds, 1 tds  
3. Ben Davis J'uan Swanson - Jr (simi-state)
   • Pass:  15-30, 207 yds, 2 tds  
4. Pike Anthony Cialdella - Sr
   • Pass: 15-33, 195 yds, 1 tds  
5. Westfield  Maximus Webster - SR
   • Pass: 16-28, 160 yds, 1 tds  
6. Decatur Central  Peyton Horsley - Sr
   •  Pass:  9-19, 157 yds, 1 tds  
7. Cathedral Nathan Mccahill - Sr
   • Pass: 10-17, 126 yds, 1 tds 

1. Lawrence North Lost 28-13 - McCulley 16 of 27 59% Comp 274 yds 1TD 1 Int

2. Ben Davis Lost 48-13 - Swanson 15 of 27 55% Comp 207 yds 2 TD 0 Int

3. Ben Davis Lost 35-12 - Swanson 17 of 27 63% Comp 161 yds 0 TD 3 Int

4. Pike Lost 57-14 - Cialdella 16 of 32 50% comp 192 yds 1 TD 0 Int

5. Westfield Lost 38-14 Webster 16 of 28 57% Comp 155 yds 1 TD 0 Int

6. Decatur Central Lost 56-14 - Horsley 9 of 18 50% Comp 157 yds 1 TD 2 Int

7. Cathedral Lost 17-13 - McCahill 12 of 19 63% Comp 123 yds 1 TD 0 Int

I put more accurate stats for you and put it more into context of which QB's were forced to throw because of the score instead of trying to run the ball at the end (Cathedral was trying to run clock in 4th qtr with a 13-10 lead). I also put what their completion percentage was and TD Int's. Note only 1 Swanson in his first meeting had a better completion percentage. Numbers make more sense in context rather than just looking at total yards.

40 minutes ago, Jon said:

Against Best defense in the state of Indiana (Center Grove) Cathedral Nathan Mccahill had the 7th best performance

1. Lawrence North Donaven Mcculle
   • Pass: 16-28, 256 yds, 1 tds   
2. Ben Davis J'uan Swanson - Jr
   •  Pass: 17-27, 223 yds, 1 tds  
3. Ben Davis J'uan Swanson - Jr (simi-state)
   • Pass:  15-30, 207 yds, 2 tds  
4. Pike Anthony Cialdella - Sr
   • Pass: 15-33, 195 yds, 1 tds  
5. Westfield  Maximus Webster - SR
   • Pass: 16-28, 160 yds, 1 tds  
6. Decatur Central  Peyton Horsley - Sr
   •  Pass:  9-19, 157 yds, 1 tds  
7. Cathedral Nathan Mccahill - Sr
   • Pass: 10-17, 126 yds, 1 tds 

How many of those QB's were down by multiple scores in the 2nd half and needed to throw to play catch-up and abandon the run? Did McCahill have his best game against CG? Nope. Did he have a terrible game? Nope. It was 13-10 Cathedral with the lead with 1:19 in the 4th qtr. We all know what happened from there the Irish decided to go for it and selected a play Coach Peebles admitted he wish he would have picked a different play. How many teams had Center Grove on the ropes with 1:19 left in the 4th in an eventual 17-13 loss. McCahill did nothing to lose the game had no turnovers and played well enough for them to win.

By the way McCahill was 12 of 19 for 123 yds. 63 Comp % and 10.3 yds per play 1 TD 0 Int's.  

In my opinion your front runners (in no particular order):

Nathan McCahill (Cathedral)
227 of 333 comp/att
3,125 passing yards
0.682 comp %
223.2 pass yards per game
13.8 pass yards per comp
41 pass TD's
4 Int's
136 rush attempts
823 rush yards
6.1 yards per carry
13 TD's
3,948 total yds
54 total TD's
6.3 yards per carry
31 rushing TDs
 

Carson Steele (Center Grove)
264 attempts
1659 rushing yards
118.5 yards per game
6.3 yards per carry
31 rushing TDs
7 receptions
152 receiving yards
2 TDs
33 Total TDs

Baron Huebler (Roncalli)
328 attempts
2317 rushing yards
165.5 yards per game
7.1 yards per carry 
32 rushing TDs
14 receptions
106 receiving yards
2 TDs
34 Total TDs

8 hours ago, Jon said:

If Nate played for Center Grove this year do you think he would be in the running? I don't think he could get the stats. It's argueable that there are many senior QBs that you could plug into cathedral team and have equal or better year, Donaven Mcculley is first off the top of my head.

Yes I do think he would have the stats as long as Center Grove ran the spread offense. The stats McCahill put up were against some very solid defenses and a schedule very comparable to the MIC. Two of their opponents were MIC teams in Carmel and Center Grove. Westfield had a very good defense. Chatard had a very good Defense. Cincinnati St. Xavier and Cincinnati LaSalle both had very good defense (all 4 of LaSalle's DB's are going D-1 the best of the 4 going to Alabama). Cincinnati Elder did not have a spectacular defense but had a good offense. Penn and Brebeuf were not spectacular defenses. So yes I think McCahill would have the stats and be in the running if CG ran more of the spread offense.

That being said CG being a majority Wing T offense lends itself more to Carson Steele and Cathedral's spread offense lends itself to Nate McCahill. Yes Donavan McCulley could put up the same stats for Cathedral. The reason I think he won't be in the running is because he did not make it out of sectionals.

1 minute ago, southend said:

A lot of top notch athletes this year for sure.  

Absolutely!

9 hours ago, DE said:

So we had to pay for the 12 SS games on IHSAATV.ORG, but not the 6 State Finals?  Or, if we paid for the 12 SS games, the 6 State Finals were "free"?

And technically, don't we pay for the state finals games anyways, if we are viewing them on Fox Sports Indiana (since we for that in the cable package)?

Not trying to argue, just trying to figure it out.  @IHSAAtv

I used to have that in my cable package, but no more.

I may be wrong but I believe IHSAA gets any money after Sectional's. So Reginal, Semi-State, and State. With lower ticket sales this year the IHSAA made Regionals free and Semi-State PPV so they at least made some money (deflecting lower ticket sales).

For the State Championship games they were free because they have a sponsor (The Indianapolis Colts) and I believe are contracted with Fox Sports Indiana so the State Championship game was going to be free regardless.

In a normal year when the IHSAA would get full ticket sales for Regionals, Semi-State, and State Finals the broadcast for all 3 would have been free. 

12 minutes ago, US31 said:

Very well said.  Every kid at Cathedral is a recruit, otherwise they would have no student body....even the kid that just wants to take AP classes and play the violin has been recruited at least by reputation, advertisement, or other (I personally know someone who sent their kid there for this specific reason...I have no personal knowledge of why Cathedral is a great place to play violin, but I'm told it is 😀).

The imbalance comes from the kids PPs don't have to count.  Being able to quantify the amount of kids that might participate in "something/anything" seems to be a logical and way to count enrollment for extracurricular (i.e. football) classification.

20 minutes ago, foxbat said:

Am I covered now?

 

YES! sorry I ran out of likes for the day!