FastpacedO

41 minutes ago, temptation said:

Just to be clear, no one is “losing their mind.”

However, the hypocrisy of moving tonight’s game against PLAINFIELD while maintaining the stance that the field was not only playable but that CG fans were “whining” is damn rich.

They showed the capability to make a decision within a short time frame when they moved tonight’s game.  Everyone knew days out that the field would be in awful shape that Friday night also.

I’d honestly let it go and smirk of Cathedral would just fess up and show their hand.  It was obvious gamesmanship.

Once again, this is CATHEDRAL we are talking about, not Dugger or Edinburgh.

(Hell, with the arrogance of many Cathedral folks, they probably believe that they did Plainfield a favor by shortening their bus ride just to get their teeth kicked in tonight.)

@WCGrad92I rest my case. I knew he wouldn't disappoint.

Tonight's game was moved likely because the field got pounded for 2 Friday nights and weeks of rainy weather. I would bet even the grounds crew couldn't get out on it to do any work because of the weeks of saturation. I am not Cathedral administration so I have no dog in the mix. I will say I highly doubt there was any more gamesmanship for the CG game than there was for Penn, Chatard, Hammond Morton, or TH North. If they hadn't played those other games there this year or last I would totally agree with you. That's is why I even brought up Pioneer (during the Jack Kiser) era. If I remember correctly they moved a late post season game to a turf field because their field had got into bad shape after some back to back games on a grass field dealing with rain.

On to other things. When talking about Neutral sites I would be curious what criteria some would want for Neutral sites. There are some nice D2 and D3 fields. However the problem I see is many of them have large home side bleachers, but visitor bleachers are not very big (and they don't need to be because very rarely are they filled up by opposing teams they play that travel from out of state). You have the D1 colleges that are pretty big. Would there be certain High School you could use. I like the Neutral site idea just wanting to get some ideas.

On 10/27/2021 at 10:59 PM, southend said:

Another school in the south central part of the state that stepped it up this year, like Northview ,is Sweet Owen Valley. 3a school. In fact their only defeat in the regular, was redeemed the first sectional game. And they beat a 4a school that just beat Jasper. Schedule May not be as tough as the southern boys , but I think the south champ in 3a might have to go through the Patriots. 

Coach Raetz has done a terrific job at Northview after leaving TH South. Northview has been solid for 7 or 8 years. They haven't got over that Sectional hump yet, but they have been solid. Was really impressed with their win over Jasper. If they beat Ev Reitz and Memorial beats Central could make for a very good Sectional Championship game in Brazil.

11 hours ago, WCGrad92 said:

Everyone does realize that Arlington Middle School is actually the old Arlington High School. That field they played at was the old High School.

I know the field wasn't great for that game, and I am not disputing anyones argument for where that game should be played or shouldn't be played. 

The stadium itself is the old High School stadium is all I am saying. 

 

Im  OUT

It is fun to watch some lose their mind over it. Probably wasn't going to be many grass fields hold up that night with the rain. Games over though there were no injuries and all the kids playing seemed to have fun playing regardless of adult complaints.

On topic of moving games. Didn't Pioneer move a game one year late in the post season from their grass field?

6 hours ago, Irishman said:

The flaw though, is that with the blind draw, no team has really earned home field. 🙂 Not in typical fashion any way. 

You mean the ping pong ball falling in your favor? It is hard work rubbing a rabbit foot during Sunday Sectional drawing!

49 minutes ago, Lysander said:

Yep.  Pretty sure that happened more than once.

I still chuckle at the image of Elder and St. Louis DeSmet playing (and losing) at Broad Ripple in 2006-7.   I often wondered what they made of the place.  

Come on we must conclude they thought it was spectacular! Field of Champions (or broken dreams depending on which team you are). 

I remember going to a game there when Cathedral played someone (quite a few years back old foggy brain). I was totally shocked West Virginia's band stopped by and played at halftime (they were to be in South Bend the next day for WVU vs ND).

Is the Ripple still one of the only fields with a larger visitor bleachers (seat at your own risk) than home bleachers? And yes I do remember when the Visitor bleachers use to be the home bleachers. 

4 minutes ago, temptation said:

Putting words in my mouth.  Never said artificial turf.  Nice try though.

There are grassy areas used for elementary field day and middle school fields superior to Arlington Middle School.

We should always strive to do better.

 

I’m the “official” leader in positive contribution points to this forum over the past 7 days…good enough for me.

6 minutes ago, TigerFan20 said:

I’m surprised Mooresville is the heavy favorite in S23 according to JH’s tournament chances. Thought it would be near equal between them and EC

I am not surprised by this (I don't mean that I agree with it just that I am not surprised by it). JH's tournament chances utilizes Sagarin ratings. Unfortunately using Sagarin there are 2 games East Central played against Ohio teams that do not get calculated for or against them. I think S23 ischances are a lot closer between the 2 teams, but using Sagarin numbers won't come to that conclusion.

8 hours ago, southend said:

Then we have Reitz and poor Northview. Probably either don’t have snowballs chance in hell , against the central indiana big boys here. Okay 

I don't think anyone is discrediting Ev. Reitz or Northview. Just discussing what will be one of the big match-ups this Friday (East Central @ Mooresville). That being said Roncalli is likely the favorite for 4A/ Defending State Champions, sitting at 10-0, looking good on film (haven't seen them live yet this year) definitely makes them a favorite. Still a lot of football to go though.

http://i.imgur.com/pnzJTq3.gif

43 minutes ago, fenderbender said:

All solid points.   

I too have watched Mooresville a couple of times.   After watching the first game, I thought Brimmage would have had a bigger year running the ball.

This may sound weird, but I think Mooresville last year and this year do not have enough "middles".

Their lineman last year were huge and looked like they have OK size this year.  Last year, O'Conner and #1 had pretty decent size, but after that the dropped to what seemed like a bunch of guys under 5'10" at the LB positions that seemed pretty light.  (~180lbs?).  This is where I thought Roncalli really pushed them around.   

This will be the game I am going to watch.   I think EC has equivlient talent at the skilled positions to Mooresville this year after watching them play Roncalli.  Their WRs are better than in years past.

 

Agree on Brimmage to start. Then as I started looking at the stats on the year it seems they really spread it around a lot. 5 players with over 20 catches all with an average of over 13.5 per reception. Their 2 runners QB and RB averaging around 5 yards per carry, it is really spread through many players. This is definitely what makes their offense so good, can't key on just one.

I agree with the middles comment and noticed that as well. I do think this will be an interesting game. 1 stop by either defense could be very critical. In games like that Special Teams can be super important and tip the game to one team or the other.

22 hours ago, fenderbender said:

Mooresville D is very suspect.  They give up a lot of points.

EC made a few uncharacteristic TOs last year.  That coupled with COVID restricted kids really cost them the game.

Mooresville QB throws a great ball and he has some weapons.

EC kind of reminds me of the Decatur Central team that beat Mooresville.  Physical and can run the ball.  EC seems to have found a good passing game with #1 catching the ball.

EC gets some pressure on the QB and wins a close one.

Watched Mooresville a couple of times this year. They have given up a large amount of points against 2 teams (Decatur Central and Plainfield). They did give up 24 (Whiteland) and 21 (Danville) who are solid offensive teams. I wouldn't know for sure but I would imagine with Perry scoring 27 a couple scores came against 2nd string defense.

Against Decatur Central they struggled with Jevon Tracy (who is a spectacular athlete) and their RB. Against Plainfield the QB gave them fits running and passing. Offensively Mooresville has weapons and they don't seem to favor just one they spread it around quite a bit between their WR's RB, and QB.

East Central and Mooresville only have 1 common opponent and that is Greenwood. East Central beat Greenwood 44-14 and Mooresville beat Greenwood 70-14 (it was 42-0 after 1st qtr and 56-0 at the half).

I think will be a very interesting game and likely will come down to which defense gets that one or a couple of stops.

3 hours ago, temptation said:

So hyperbole it was.  
 

A slight step back from the “Fastest High school player I have witnessed with running back power and moves.”

http://www.hudl.com/v/2FsEK5 

I would say his speed, power, and agility look pretty impressive to me. Fastest HS player I have seen live maybe not but would be up there on the list (Terry McLaurin was pretty fast and elusive among a few others). Definitely has all 3 attributes though speed, power, and agility.

4 hours ago, DumfriesYMCA said:

Looking at stats to reference what I’m talking about 

 

Gibson Southern has attempted 212 passes for 2724 yards…good for 12.8 yards per attempt…doesn’t even factor in DPI or Dholding or roughing the QB

 

Gibson Southern has run the ball 215 times for 1698 yards…good for 7.9 per play…..the penalties in play are pretty much horse collar or holding…but nothing different that any person with the ball.  
 

now granted GS has Brady Allen but GS has done this for 10 years and that’s because it works.  
 

the goal is to move usually about 80 yards or less and score….do you want to take 10+ plays to do it or do you want to do it in 6/7? 

I think the answer to this question depends on a few factors. First it is dependent on the team you are playing and their offensive production and/or talent of their offense. Second it depends on your own defenses production and the talent of your defense.

If your defensive talent is not comparable to the talent of the offense you are playing scoring in 10+ plays by running the football instead of passing can eat up clock and limit possessions of the other teams offense (of course you have to execute too). Limit possession and shorten the game and it can lean in your favor. 

That being said their are Wing T (or run heavy offenses) that can score quick and in big chunks. The Warren Central teams of 2002-2007 ran a form of Wing T and had the talent to score and score quickly (ask Penn 2003 and @Bobref 😆),

9 hours ago, Esso Ayche said:

I would have thought you'd be the "Ghost of Titan32" if you were dead.  I mean, did you actually read your copy of "Handbook of the Recently Deceased"?

He's the ghost with the most!

http://25.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m9di5aNh0V1qcxrpgo2_500.gif

2 hours ago, Grover said:

Correct. It was easier to run north and south. But that one play doesn’t mean all the other slipping, sliding, and fumbling didn’t happen.   
 

Look, I don’t care where we play and I’m sure the kids had fun in the mud but showing one play where we had good footing doesn’t change anything. 
 

Why is it so hard to just admit the field was a sloppy mess and the parents should enjoy it as much as the kids?

Who is saying the field wasn't sloppy? I sure haven't. I stated from the get go in the original game post that the field conditions had an affect on both teams Offense's. 

I even stated that I felt playing in the mud and rain prior to the game likely favored CG because of their base Wing T offense (knowing they do go into shotgun) than Cathedral. In all honesty Cathedral's better part of their offense has come from their passing game and their run game has been inconsistent.

What I have said is that playing the game at Arlington was due to it being Cathedral's homefield. It had nothing to do with obvious competitive reasons (as 2 other posters eluded to. I also gave support to that with all 6 home games there last year and all 4 soon to be 5 there this year.

16 hours ago, Bash Riprock said:

local TV coverage offers perspective for the CG vs Cathedral game at Arlington...see 30 sec mark...and that was before the game.  Very difficult to get to the outside, cut, etc.  Definitely slowed the game down.  Not sure how the fields compare.

 

At the 1:05 mark didn't look like Drew Wheat had a problem racing for a 67 yard TD on that same field.

@Lysanderperhaps the Irish Athletic Department can muster up to play at Broad Ripple for the next Cathedral vs CG game to appease the complaining. Do you think the administration at the corner of Crittenden Ave and Kesslar Blvd would be okay with that in 2 years now that they no longer play home games at the field of Champions? 😆

On 10/16/2021 at 11:14 AM, Sports Freak20 said:

Lets not forget, New Pal lost to Brebeuf by 4 touch downs!  Not sure what you are talking about.  I hope New Pal makes it to Regionals to play Cathedral. 

@Irishmanalready let the cat out of the bag, but I was going to let you know these posts were from 2019. I have slept a lot since then.

In all seriousness Sectional 14 is an intriguing sectional to me. The Sectional 14 championship could be Whiteland vs New Palestine. That being said New Pal plays Franklin and Whiteland plays Columbus East. Whiteland beat Columbus East 28-7 earlier this season Aug 20th, and Whiteland lost to Franklin 35-21 on September 10th. Sagarin has Whiteland as 45% chance of winning the sectional and New Pal at 34% chance of winning the sectional. Sectional 14 could be one of the most competitive Sectionals with 4 teams that could be a toss up. I will throw a prediction that both home teams win (Whiteland beats Columbus East and New Pal beats Franklin). Which will make for an interesting game as I am sure New Pal will want to avenge last years sectional loss.

6 hours ago, Irishman said:

This is getting heated for no reason…..watch the name calling. 
The discussion of the field has been drug through the mud long enough. It’s Cathedral’s home field, plain and simple. Talk about the game now….PLEASE. 

On that note. I disagree with the notion that it was merely a difference of a couple big plays for CG. Their o line took over the 2nd half. Cathedral had chances to keep it a game, but mistakes hurt. Too many dropped passes. 
My initial impression is that CG let the conditions play with their head the first half. Maybe the parents were talking enough about it as people on here have been? But props to Coach Moore. Whatever adjustments they made, they were able to establish the run the 2nd half. Solid and sustained drives lead to the big plays referred to earlier. No question these two are the hands down favorites to win State in their classes. Best of luck to both teams going forward. 

Agreed! I won't call you out on OC (original coach) status since I know you have been around the block with a few teams. I would bet you coached at Arlington at one time though ( even though some newer folks don't understand the history of Cathedral playing at Arlington). I think you are aware from your days at CHS and CRHS. 

33 minutes ago, Bash Riprock said:

Cathedral hosted CG at Tech high school the last 2 times Cathedral was the home team in 2017 & 2019.  Cathedral played on the field that was to their advantage. CG this season is the faster team. You saw what Wheat did in quagmire. Now put him, the DL and others on turf. I understand what Cathedral did…don’t blame them. Just accept it and move on. Good plan, it didn’t work. 

Yes Cathedral hosted CG at Tech in 2017 and 2019 (Arlington wasn't a choice then). They also hosted CG at Arlington in 1992 and at CG in 2015. Like I stated all Cathedrals games have been at Arlington in 2020 and 2021 had nothing to do with speed of teams. It is where they paid rent and paid to upkeep the field. Besides what would be advantageous of playing a team that has a history as being a Wing T team on a muddy field when your best offense is your passing game. I don't get where that is hard to understand other than trying to make something out of nothing. Both teams CG and Cathedral have had plenty of speed the last 2 years and aren't lacking in that department. To feel Cathedral doesn't have speed (especially defensively) is completely ignorant. The muddy conditions played just as much against Cathedral's offense as it did Center Grove's. I actually felt coming into the game it was more advantageous to CG playing on Natural grass because CG's base offense is a Wing T offense. Something they all ran in Bantam and middle school.

9 minutes ago, temptation said:

I’ve already spoken about the stacked deck.  Many CG folks were up in arms prior to kickoff (all week really) and leading up to the game last night.  Just because those on here are not crying foul doesn’t mean this board represents the masses.

I GUARANTEE this board and other social media sites would be up in arms this morning had that score been flipped.

Both teams have speed but CG has more.  Also more talent and depth.  Terrible field conditions neutralize that advantage.  Doesn’t take a genius to figure that out.

To your last point, this game has been circled on every football fan’s calendar since LAST October.  Plenty of time to consider an alternate venue…and the rain forecast should have green lighted the decision to do so.

So far the biggest outcry is from the largest blowhard (yourself).

Honestly I don't care about other media sites etc that would be up at arms. Wouldn't have changed the outcome, just like anything said from the other side wouldn't change the outcome. 

It has been very well documented both teams have speed, both teams have a lot of talent, and both teams have depth. Just because you want to use narrative bias doesn't change that.

They didn't change the venue because Arlington is their homefield and it was last year too. Honest question are you that dense? It doesn't matter if every football fan had the game circles since last October. I doubt Coach Moore or Coach Peebles care about every football fan circling it on their calendar, and I'd bet they care more about their team. That is what you don't get, they aren't there to cater to you or any other fan. They are there for their team if you come to watch so be it.

They didn't need time to find another venue because the game was going to be played on their homefield rain, snow, or shine. They have already paid to rent the facility, they have already paid to resurface and upkeep the field. It will be there next week as well and any other potential home games unless the IHSAA forces them not to hold it there.

No need to whine about it anymore. "Arlington is Cathedral's home field" doesn't matter if you like it or not, nor if CG or their fans like it or not. It is rented for the year and money put into what they can. End of subject.

10 minutes ago, temptation said:

Many CG fans had their pitchforks ready in the first half last night and were fully prepared to raise hell had that final score turned out differently.

Cathedral fans aren’t complaining much this morning because they can’t.  They stacked the deck…and still lost.

Stacked what deck? Seems like one person has the pitchfork.

I doubt the Cathedral Athletic department knew what the weather would be like when they schedule was set and this game slated at Arlington well before August.

3 minutes ago, Indiana Fan said:

100% agree with you! Heard through the grapevines that CG offered Cathedral to allow them to use their facility. Would have given Cathedral the entire gate money, home stands, and allowed them to complete their senior night facilities. There were individuals that were on board for this, but ultimately got turned down. 

Either way, atmosphere was still amazing and it ended up being a solid game despite the terrible field. 

I don't blame Cathedral 1 bit for declining, and think it was a great choice to decline. Of course CG would offer to lend its homefield to have another home game.

By the way 2015 CG did the same only the home stands were not given up. Arlington is Cathedral's home field and it was for several years in the 90's and 00's. Even played Center Grove there in 1992.

2 hours ago, temptation said:

I’ll stand by my claim.  Just because it was equally pitiful for both teams doesn’t mean it was the right decision to play this game at Arlington Middle School.  I don’t care what Cathedral deems it’s home field.

It didn’t take a rocket scientist to figure out when the 10 day forecast showed the amount of rain Indy was going to receive that this was going to happen.

Game could have easily been moved but I have a sneaky suspicion one team didn’t want it to be for obvious competitive reasons.

I’m all for what some folks above consider “old school football” but that was pathetic last night.

Exactly what competitive reason would that be? Of note Cathedral's defense is solely built around speed (muddy conditions don't lend itself to that). Cathedral's WR's have speed and their strong suit has been their passing game (muddy conditions don't lend itself to that). Cathedral's QB has been good at eluding pressure, setting his feet and throwing, and running very well when needed (muddy conditions didn't lend itself to that). Center Grove has speed too.

Cathedral Head Coach Bill Peebles in the newspaper said it best. Field conditions hurt both Cathedral and Center Grove's offense. In all honesty Center Grove made some huge plays when needed at the end, Cathedral had opportunities and didn't capitalize.

Cathedral's home field is Arlington rain, snow, or shine. That was made very clear when they hired Turf Dog's to resurface the grass at Arlington. If it rains to make muddy conditions it rains plain and simple. They played St. Xavier, LaSalle, Elder, Brebeuf Jesuit, Decatur Central, and Whiteland there last year. They played Penn, Chatard, Hammond Morton, and Center Grove there this year and will play Terra Haute North there.

It wasn't that long ago that many of these teams with turf fields had natural grass fields and had to deal with sloppy conditions if the weather was not great (That includes Center Grove and even Roncalli)..

2 hours ago, Grover said:

Why am I hearing that CG coaches and webcast team won’t be allowed?

You are asking the wrong person. I would only guess that WHMB TV 40 and their production crew might have something to do with it, but I wouldn't be able to answer that or even validate it.

 I can validate however that Arsenal Tech's press box is about 3/4 the size of Arlington's. I have definitely seen worse than both unfortunately.

On 10/12/2021 at 2:29 PM, Indiana Fan said:

what is the pressbox situation at Arlington? Have to feel for media/film crew and coaches. Especially the coaches who need to be able to spot during the game. 

It is a Taj Mahal compared to Arsenal Tech's press box.

On 10/10/2021 at 12:57 PM, StatQueen said:

Everyone knows this Arlington "venue" is a joke.  Typical Cathedral trying to act like it's not.  A shame this game isn't getting a better environment.  The real issue is that the Irish are actually lucky they don't have to deal with Rebel OLine this year.  Actual best game would be CGvsRoncalli this year.

The environment will be just fine. Rebels? I think it could be said the Royals are fortunate they don't have to deal with the Irish front 6. At any rate should be a good game between the Trojans and Irish like it usually is. The Royals can focus on the other Trojans from St. Leon Indiana.