FastpacedO

On 11/29/2020 at 10:43 PM, Staxawax said:

You conveniently left out the part that you would be the commissioner of this.

I think you would have many schools/teams defecting immediately to go back to the IHSAA

On 11/29/2020 at 10:52 PM, foxbat said:

Interesting line there ... the Big 3 Catholics and little brother Covenant ... except that Covenant's not a Catholic school.  Just curious as to why it wasn't stated the Big PPs and the little brother?  For shock value?  A little hate/envy as @Grandpa B might say?  A little Freudian slip? Or you just really didn't know and lumped them all in together?

Tread lightly! @Bobrefmight include you in his suit against @Grandpa B for the hate/envy term! 😆 Nothing personal just business Bob needs to protect his brand!

5 minutes ago, The TW said:

Yeah, I’m not following the logic thus far...

Wait there was logic involved? 😆

5 hours ago, Irishman said:

I don't think that is his point.....As an example, we have about 10% of our population that are physically and/or mentally incapable of participating in football. So the REAL difference is not necessarily who is in the building for non public schools, it's more about who is not. With that population being minimal or non existent in those schools, they are classified among schools with the same total number of students, but a smaller pool of them to draw from for a sport like football. 

Honest question because you may be more in the know. If that 10% population were subtracted from the enrollment would that be enough to bump New Haven down to 3A?

1 hour ago, slice60 said:

The CYO system is a huge advantage. Not only do those kids play together for many years but they are able to learn the same offense/defense as the HS program while being taught excellent fundamentals. That said, broadcasters always talk about the great Center Grove youth program in the same way. Pioneer too, I think. Maybe towns/public schools have built great youth programs thru Pop Warner or USA Football which led to sustained success at the HS level-- but it takes a ton of work.

Actually I agree CYO is a huge advantage but not in the same way you have put it. I will use Roncalli as an example (I have no affiliation with them).

Lets say 6 of the feeder schools for Roncalli have Cadet football. Holy Name, Nativity, St. Barnabas, S.S. Francis and Clare, St. Jude, and Our Lady of Greenwood. Roncalli runs a Spread No-Huddle offense and a 4-2-5 defense. Holy Name could be running the Pro formation and a 3-4, Nativity an I-Formation and 4-4, St. Barnabas a spread and 3-3, St. Jude a spread and 4-2-5, SSFC runs a pistol and 4-4, and OLofG run a Wing T and a 4-4. Now I agree they are taught fundamentals and also see many different looks. Where it becomes a solid advantage is the number of players from each team that have learned their positions and move up to the HS and create depth and or battle for positions.

Now what Center Grove Bantam has done that Publics schools can emulate to a certain degree (CG Bantam is big). The big advantage is they can set a play book with the Wing T and 4-3 defense the kids learn it from 2nd through 6th grade. They also run the same formations at the middle schools. By the time a Carson Steele (just an example) hits High School he knows those basic plays and the scheme like muscle memory. Sure the expand upon the play book and learn more intricate plays, but the know the basics of the system. This is a model most Public schools should use and yes it does take a lot of work. The other key is keeping them out for the team as they filter from youth to middle school and then to HS. Of course Bantam isn't the only thing at CG Coach Moore has done. He has also done a lot with strength and speed training.

2 hours ago, IndianaWrestlingGuy said:

Few clarifications on Cathedral’s roster:

Nathan McCahill attended Cathedral and played freshmen ball before transferring to CG for one year. He then came back and attended CHS for junior and senior years. He was a CYO kid from St. Roch. 
 

Re: all of Marion County recruiting - we have kids from over 50 middle schools in the halls of CHS. So, yes, we absolutely need to advertise across the whole town to keep our enrollment numbers up. At $15,500/annual, it is no small task getting parents to commit to that. But, by my count, there were only 3 football starters that didn’t play in the CYO. 
 

Look no farther than the CYO for dominance of the P/Ps in Cathedral, Chatard, and Roncalli. It has little to do with enrollment. 

Probably could also mention that Nathan McCahill only became starting QB his Senior year. They had a 2 year starter at QB last year and McCahill switched to WR to just get on the field. I think he was a great team player doing whatever was needed last year and this year to help the team. He hit the ground running at 100% when he took over at QB. To me the best thing was seeing his huge success at QB this year. State game he did it more with his arm than legs, but it was probably more vindicating to play like he has all year especially after his fumble against New Pal on a big play at WR last year. He came out with a vengeance this year. Just a little added clearification.

12 minutes ago, boilerfan87 said:

It will be interesting to see if anything comes of the experiment. I feel like some other states did this as well. Maybe Iowa? I have a feeling they will return to their original playoff ways once we are back to "normal." 

I believe Ohio has already stated next year they will return to their regular playoff format. I will ask though.

On 11/28/2020 at 7:34 PM, temptation said:

Have a feeling this is the beginning of the gravy train for CC.  Lots of talent in central Indy to “go around.”

I am sure @Coach_Hogan_Brotherwould be able to tell you there is no gravy train especially with Lutheran lingering in their sectional. That was a good game as well. CC had a terrific year, but they also have some 3+ year starters they will be losing which won't be easy cleats, helmets, and shoulder pads to replace.

19 minutes ago, Bobref said:

For years, some of the more enlightened members of the GID Community — including the late Tim Adams — have advocated for a qualification format in place of the all in system we’ve had for 30+ years. As the lone holdout for an all in format, Indiana’s all in supporters consistently call for “evidence” that a qualification format is better, and smile smugly when qualification format proponents cannot produce any — simply because no other state has such a format.

The fact that Indiana’s tournament is all in, and has been for 30+ years, but no one has seen fit to adopt the “Indiana example,” ought to tell you all you need to know about how other high school football leaders view our format. But now we have the opportunity for some hard “evidence” close to home.

Because of the pandemic, this season Ohio went to a shortened regular season, and an all in playoff format. In a normal year, perhaps 25% of Ohio teams make the playoffs. This year everyone did.

So here’s the question: Having had a taste of the all in format, will the Ohio powers-that-be recognize it as superior to a qualification format, and make changes to their system? Or will they revert to their seeded qualification format? I think we can agree that Ohio places a different degree of emphasis on football than Indiana. Now that Ohio can make an informed, intelligent choice, let’s see what they do?

I’ve been listening carefully for the drumbeat of support from Ohio for an all in format. So far 🦗.

From what I have read they do not like it, but not because of the reason you might think.  To start with their regular season was much shorter. The biggest complaint I have seen and spoke to with friends from Ohio was how they did the seeding. They did a vote by coaches to seed each team in each region. Coaches in bottom tier of conference gave unrealistic votes on the seeding of each team. To try and sway which side of the bracket their conference would be in compared to others. Intentionally voting teams like St. Xavier way low. The votes were made public to and everyone could see what they tried to do. That has been the biggest detractor so far. The person I spoke to said he thinks it could work if they used the Harbin points for seeding (still creates something to play for). However they said this was a 1 year thing due to pandemic and it should go back to normal next year.

7 hours ago, Starfire said:

And this is with the starters playing 2 quarters a game for almost every game this season, other maybe maybe 3-4 games 

Looking at the scores from both South Adams and Covenant Christian, I would think both teams had starters only playing 2 quarters (and maybe a few plays in 3rd qtr) except maybe 3 or 4 games. Lutheran and Heritage Christian would be 2 games for CC I would think their starters likely played all 4 quarters for sure.

13 minutes ago, Grandpa B said:

Said it multiple times.   That one school is Cathedral.   If you have another PP school that you think can win playing 2 classes up (which is what the 2.0 multiplier will drive), I am more that interested in that.  This year, Roncalli with one their best teams in the past 15 years would be a 24 point underdog to Center Grove which would be the Sectional that they would play in (Sagarin 118 to 94).   11 points from a running clock.   In most years, the difference would be much greater.    

Come on now. You know Roncalli wouldn't be in a Sectional with Center Grove. They would lump Cathedral, Roncalli, Chatard, and Brebeuf into 1 sectional (if Chatard and Brebeuf were put in the same class). The only way to get to Center Grove would be Regional. 😆

16 hours ago, DT said:

LC and CG are very similar.  Both highly regarded schools in wealthy suburbs.  Similar demographis and socio economic make up  Both have top notch facilities and good community support.  Difference is CG has total football buy in, LC does not.  

CC is in th middle of Indy and surrounded by communities loaded with talent.  SN sits out in a cornfield as a rural school and has limited enrollment potential

Fair enough, would you say Park Tudor has a "competitive advantage" over South Adams or North Decatur? How about Providence do they have a "competitive advantage" over Triton Central or Western Boone? Oldenburg Academy do they have a "competitive advantage" over South Adams or even Hagerstown? Does Bishop Noll have a "competitive advantage" over Boone Grove, Wheeler, or WeBo? See your 2.0 multiplier you want in place doesn't just have an effect on the top few P/P schools that have success it effects the bottom of the P/P's too. It would force schools like Oldenburg Academy, Providence, Park Tudor, and Noll to play 2 classes up when they struggle to have success in their current class Do you think Providence could compete in 4A? Park Tudor and Oldenburg Academy in 3A? Sorry but Success Factor addresses where it needs to be addressed P/P and Public. The only problem is it needs to be the initial proposal of 4 years instead of 2.

14 hours ago, DT said:

Sheridan was a 1A public school that won championships within its enrollment based classification.  No issues there.

Covenant Christian is in its enrollment based classification same as Shridan. They have maybe 12 more students in their school than South Adams.

5 minutes ago, Bobref said:

Yes.

I'm simply stating to ask if Covenant Christion who is 56-10 over the last 5 seasons has a competitive advantage over South Newton 1-48 over the last 5 seasons like asking if Center Grove who is 48-18 the last 5 seasons has a competitive advantage over Lake Central who is 12-38 over the last 5 seasons. It's not an accurate comparison between South Newton and Covington Christian. Yes CC is having a successful season. They also happen to have players that are Seniors that have been starting since Freshman and Sophomore years and took some lumps. I don't know much about the Warriors. What I do know is I can go look at their stats and the players with numbers have been on their roster the last few years playing those positions. I would guess after those guys graduate it will be a big drop off and young players that will have to fill in and take a 3-4 year starters place without having played on a Freshman or JV team. They have a very small roster. Maybe they will have enough returning, but maybe they have some players that garnered enough experience to put them in this position. 

1 minute ago, DT said:

There is no comparison betrween the two

And why do you say that?

2 minutes ago, Bobref said:

Just so I’m sure I understand your point, does your concept of “competitive advantage” imply that the advantage is somehow unearned. The illustration I come up with is the well-demonstrated correlation between socioeconomics and athletic participation rates. That’s “unearned,” outside the school or program’s control. But something like a great weight room is not.

Were you meaning to quote my post?

21 minutes ago, Coach Nowlin said:

I have had to clean up too many posts in this thread.  

Thin ice friends.  

 

47 minutes ago, DT said:

No  I meant South Newton, his high school.  They are 1-48 over past 5 seasons.  But Gipp feels CC has no competitive advantage over his beloved Rebels   To each his own

That is like asking if Center Grove has a competitive advantage over Lake Central. I mean they are both 6A Public Schools right.

33 minutes ago, DT said:

CC can run off 10 straight for all I care

Just not in 1A

They would have a grand total of 1 State Championship in football if they win this weekend. Judging from how many 3-4 year starters in their Sr. class they have this year and their roster only being 37 players. I highly doubt you will see even 3 straight in 1A. I am sure their coaches will shoot for it but the odds aren't in their favor. Their current players have taken their lumps, learned their lessons, and got better. 6-5 last year making a run at State this year.

I know you talk about fair, in most non-COVID years you can find a pretty big FAIR at 38th and Fall Creek.

5 minutes ago, Coach_Hogan_Brother said:

I've been buying lottery tickets like mad in order to raise the funds needed for a football facility.  *Hogan field at Hogan stadium at the Hogan Sports Complex coming fall 2021*

Just make sure to use lineman number's for your winning numbers. Skilled players get all the stats, lineman have winning lottery numbers! 😁

13 minutes ago, TheStatGuy said:

Where do they play their "home" games

Looks like they have played at Brebeuf High School (tournament) and Zionsville West Middle school (Regular Season) for home games

1 hour ago, Coach_Hogan_Brother said:

12k!

12.2K 😁

17 hours ago, Thor77 said:

Back to DTs original point, do you think it’s ok for CC to be at state 6 years after starting a football program?

16 hours ago, DT said:

I dont

So let me get this straight. It's not okay for Covenant Christian to play for a State Championship 6 years after starting a football program, but it is okay for Fishers to win a State Championship 5 years after starting a football program. 

A quick look over at the Covenant Christian Warriors website. They have a roster of 37 players. Pretty much the same players that were 6-5 last year. Avenged a close lost to Lutheran from last year in Sectionals. I would venture to say with that small of a roster they likely do not have Freshman or JV teams. So players are learning all through Varsity games.

6 hours ago, AW0352 said:

I know I watched the state finals last year on YoutubeTV.  I’ve been searching everywhere and I don’t see where the games will be streamed this year on YoutubeTV.  Anyone know anything I’m missing?  Does this mean IHSAATV will show them live? 

If you happen to have a Firestick there is an IHSAATV App. Been watching games all season on my big screen TV.

7 hours ago, DT said:

I was looking at the Ohio Divisional breakouts recently and noticed that all of the elite high end football programs play in Division 1.  St X.  St Iggy.  Moeller.  St Edward.  They want to see the best teams play each other at the highest level.  Thats the way it should be in Indiana.  

The schools you just named play in Ohio Division I because that is where their enrollment puts them.

Just a sample from Div-I and Div-II (There are more in other division but far too many to go through them all). 

Div-I Enrollment

St. Ignatius 1,524 All-male

St. Xavier 1,514 All-male

St. Edward 970 All-male

Moeller 856 All-male

Elder 800 All-male

Div-II Enrollment

Walsh Jesuit 1,010 Co-ed

Archbishop Hoban 828 Co-ed

Toledo Central Catholic 600 Co-ed

St. Francis De Sales 875 Co-ed

LaSalle (Cincy) 630 All-male

6 minutes ago, Footballking16 said:

Of course it’s coming.

Scifries success his last two years at Roncalli (15 semi-state and 16 state champions) was directly due to the SF. Cathedral was playing 2 classes up in 6A at the time and New Pal playing up a class in 5A. All three likely would have been in the same sectional.

I know. I was giving you a visual of DT and his assumptions. Blindfolded dart thrower world champion!

6 minutes ago, Footballking16 said:

Cathedral and Roncalli didn’t play in any of Scifries last 4 years as they weren’t in the same class and Dwenger and Roncalli to my knowledge haven’t played each other in the last 10 years. 

You know he always has the same result!

12 minutes ago, Stickfish said:

I’ll be the first to acquiesce this outcome of the game was over before the bagpiper hit the field, which was a nice touch.  But the fact remains with a choice to play the 1s on offense the entire game there was no running clock and failed to beat the Knights on the scoreboard the second half although surely the should have.  Perhaps if you recount the outcome it will turn out different?

Irish went entirely vanilla in 2nd half from what I could tell. Switched out players on defense early, even with number 1's on offense ran basic plays. That being said had their not been 3 missed PAT's the running clock would have been instituted (score 32-0 at the time 3 PAT's would have put it at 35-0) Castle scored on the defense with back-ups in with 7:22 remaining in the game. Recovered an onside kick, after the back-up came up with a stop with 4:23 remaining the Irish ran out the clock. The game was never in doubt even in the 3rd and 4th qtr, Irish looked to go on cruise control in 2nd half.

All that being said it was total domination in the first half. 35 plays 342 yds  15 first downs and 29 points to 25 plays 37 yds 4 first downs 0 points. What more could you ask for. They set themselves up in the first half very well. Castle was definitely going to fight, but in all reality the Irish didn't have to do much in the 2nd half.