snrmike

You arte correct about Illinois. Here's a link to the Terms and Conditions for the footbsll playoffs in the IHSA> https://www.ihsa.org/documents/fb/2023-24/t-and-cs.pdf You are correct about Illinois. Here's a link to the Terms and Conditions for the footbsll playoffs in the IHSA> https://www.ihsa.org/documents/fb/2023-24/t-and-cs.pdf

Agreed Bob. We will have a young lady working as the back judge (sub) on our crew Friday night!

One note. For accepted penalties against the defense, the play clock should be set to 40 seconds. Accepted penaties on the offense, play clock should be set to 25. Everything else in the PDF looks good.

On this particular play, to make a correct ruling, you'd have to be in the postion this particular linesman was in. Straddling the gloal linewith a clear view of the action. Judging from your comments about the crew, I would have to trust the ruling on the field. There is honestly no way to think otherwise unless we had a camera in the pylon. It is an interesting play to discuss.

...not Heather!

RTP is sometimes very difficult to call, other times, it's obvious. Pretty sure I caught 'em all this year except for one - and that needed slo-mo replay a couple of times. The guidelines listed above are well-articulated and are Spot-On! Thanks Bob!

I would have something to say, but I am NOT an unbiased nor unaffiliated observer in this particular topic. I am exercizing some self-control here and keeping my mouth 99% shut for a change! 😁

Thank you for noticing that I was on top of this rule sir! 😊

GID does a fine job. You guys are the BEST. Glad to be able to help out a little!

Would be a welcome addition to all sports!

My humble opinion on this topic: Alternate days will have to be the norm until the current trend in declining officials population is resolved. Also, "patchwork" crews aren't necessarily sub-par. The Central Officials Assn in Illinois used to assign HS game to officials by position. That organization produced some of the most skilled officials in the nation: Bill Lemonnier, Dan Capron, Jerry Markbreit, Bob (Bobref) Parker - to name just a few. The only reason they started organizing crews is that only crews advance at playoff time in most states and Illinois is no exception. Still though, the current football administration's efforts led by Robert Faulkins could be a good start. Standardized education for all officials seems to be working pretty well lately.The football mechanics manual "Football Officials' Crew 5-person Mechanics and Best Practices" is a living document and is helping to ensure evenly officiated contests. Also as grizzled veterans, we need to help recruit new people. We can help inspire young men and women to become as passionate about the sport as we all are. Maybe stop in on Saturdays & Sundays at pee-wee sites to see who might be an interesting candidate for our avocation. Coaches, dads, high school kids. Let's try to get 'em all involved. It won't happen overnight, but if we can convice the schedulers to use alternate days and bring in one new official each, this can turn around in a few years.

...it's 'an' answer. Most everyone can use the extra $$$ to maintain vehciles and pay for fuel. It isn't the only reason for the shortage

I copied the original post verbatim from Facebook. Remember this tonight while watching your favorite teams compete. Everyone who officiates understands the challenges we are now facing. The refs are getting older and our numbers are declining. Please be considerate to EVERYONE on the field EVERY night. From: David M. Howard Ap24 · Think about this for a second. After 27 years as a football Official and 37 years total in Officiating, Basketball, Football and Swimming. Almost everyone I know In Officiating has walked away!! Many different reasons but after Yesterday's game my current Crew is no longer together!! There are lots of reasons but the main one is abuse by Coaches and Fans!! Who In Thier right mind gives up thier Friday Nights with thier Families and drive sometimes 200 miles round trip for $70? Nobody except those of us who are willing to try and help young people have games with Officials!! So my typical Friday night consists of traveling an hour or more to a game, sometimes less, but normally around an hour on Friday night. Leaving the house no later than 4:45 to be sure to be at the game sight at least an hour before the game, to get dressed and go over anything the crew needs to work on from previous weeks. Game kicks off at 7:00 and normally last until 9-9:30 depending on how fast or slow the offenses work. Back to the locker room around 9:30 get dressed and go home usually arriving around 11 and sometimes, like a couple weeks ago 1:30 A.M. because of rain delay and distance to the game. So we spend anywhere from 5 and a half to 10 hours gone from home for that $70!. You do the math it is not a good paying gig!!! Yet we are yelled at, screamed at and berated because we want your kids to have the best possible night but some don't care enough to look into what it takes to do the Official's job on the field!! So any volunteers to do this job? If there is please Contact the IHSA (Illinois) and get your license because after last night there will only be 3 Football officials in Clark County, and 0, None, in Crawford County. And this is the trend. I know this is a long post but had to be said!! You want your kids to be able to play Sports? Then get a license and Officiate, otherwise be quiet and walk away because there will be no games without Officials!!

I think that the first thing we need to do is to create a system of evealuation for officials. Schools and coaches "voting" is NOT the answer and should not be a determining factor in choosing qualified officials for torunament advancement. Popularity, of a crew chief or other members of the crew shouldn't be the deciding reasons for any official advancing through the post season. While the professionalism and like-ability of a crew should be considered - it should just be one factor in the criteria. Setting the criteria for what officials do during live games can be difficult, to say the least. Let's start with: 1) Rules knowledge - test scores can be used as an initial measurement. 2) Professionalism - uniform appearance of the entire crew. Uniform behavior (on time physical appearance, etc. of the entire crew. 3) In game performance evaluation by IHSAA observer - including execution of duties, positioning and situational comportment (how does an official react under stress). 4) Head Coaches evaluation within 3-weeks of contest. A cool-down period after an emotional contest might be a good idea to be more objective. Have a minimum set number of live-game evaluations - start with 2 per year. Each position would be required to be evaluated according to a set of basic criteria. Bobref once put together a form for just such an evealuation for the LCAOA a few years ago. Something like his form could be a starting point. Crews scoring in the upper half of the total evaluations should then be observed by an official state observer (or oberservers) during a live sectional contest and scored. Crews performing well should then advance to later rounds based on their scores. *These are just a few suggestions off the top of my head for creating a formal advancement system. Does anyone know how evaluations are done in FBS-Level NCAA??? My sincere feelings is that things have slowly become much more standardized and measurable under Asst Commisioner Faulkens. I would love to see the trend continue and also see the role of the officials' observers grow in the coming years.

That was awesome! Great effort by R

Legal Rule 2-24 ART. 4 . . . A scrimmage kick is any kick from in or behind the neutral zone during a scrimmage down. Either a place kick, punt, or drop kick may be used. For a place kick, the ball must be controlled on the ground or on a legal kicking tee by a teammate. NFHS. 2021 NFHS Football Rules Book (pp. 45-46). NFHS. .

I agree with everything JustRules said - one exception. It looked like the slot receiver pulled the DB away from the ball. Holding is never legal in any zone - but then the question has to be asked: was it enough to have an effect the play? From the B angle, I would have probably thrown the flag when I saw the DB's shoulders get turned as it cleared the way for the running back to catch the ball. Either way - the LJ could offer input as to the area of the contact, but the B apparently was responsible for the inside receiver. It's close for 2 different fouls- but because it is close, I could support either OPI or Holding on the slot. I could also support no OPI if the contact was in the NZ or no holding by virtue of the press coverage the DB was in. Could be argued that the DB initiated and engaged. Either way ... "Ultimately that is what the officials are paid to do and they applied that judgement here. It's not an absolutely right or wrong call. He has to make the best call based on what he sees and the information provided by others."

Well... there ya have it!!!! Thanks for posting this for all to see! Tremendously useful info!

In my experience, after the tournament is complete. December or January? Cannot remember the excat timeframe

Not yet - thank goodness. But there are two weeks + playoffs to go!

I would hope that a patient investigation is processed and those responsible are held up for all to see. As Bob said, high school officials do what they love for more than just money. We aren't perfect. Same goes for coaches and players. When I step on a campus, I expect civil behavior and a modicum of respect. I don't necessarily expect everyone to be happy with a call that goes against their side - but I expect civility (maybe even loud civility) LOL. I also don't expect anyone to encroach on the private space of the referees' locker room either. Echoing the sentiment of everyone else here ... "what are people thinking?"

The OP mentions that the Defense had 12 on the field. In rule-book-speak "B" (as in B12), was running off the field. In HS rules, if the snap is imminent the whistle can blow before the snap. In all of the aforementioned scenarios, a penalty was assessed on the "B" team because one team does have an advantage over the other. It was just a matter of whether a 15-yarder or a 5-yarder. If this occurs on the offense, or if the 12th man doesn't leave the A huddle within 3 seconds, there should still be a foul flagged for Illegal Sub for 5-yards. If A12 was running off, but not "participating" it would still be 5. We had the situation on the "A" (Offense) on Friday night. Twice. Each time a foul was called because the A player couldn't make it to the sideline (not even close). BTW - a pretty good number of officials either played the game or coached it. They know the ramifications of the advantages/disadvantages. Good discussion!!!!

I like to use the Sagarin system as it was originally designed. Total offense performance and total defense performance. As the season rolls along, those numbers start getting more and more accurate. I rarely look at Jeff's numbers for the first 2 (or even 3) weeks. Data is still being compiled during that period. I also never place a lot of stock in pure computer generated rankings. As Gipper sez "on the field". That's where we play the games. From my perspective, I am just using it as a gauge for how competitive games will be. For rankings - the stats don't mean a lot. For competetive evaluation... it does provide a measuring stick for how head-to-head competitions will be. The post-season toureny is the only true ranking!

Sorry - work got in the way of my response. Yes. Bob is correct. Over the years, coaches have incorrectly identified blocks below the waiste as chop blocks. The high/low block you described is the "classic" chop block. Sometimes in our communications w/coaches, we experience tiny little misunderstandings between coach-speak and ref-speak. No biggie! 🙂

Or - as football officials call it: Chop Block