USA Today Network media poll Week 2

[BTF]

4 minutes ago, Footballking16 said:

Has anyone actually claimed that Westfield had an off-night? Rather I've seen several posters come to the consensus that Crown Point was the better team that night and deserved to win.

However, and correct me if I'm wrong, you're the poster who claimed Crown Point would have been the second best team in the HCC based on one result? Again extrapolation to this degree doesn't always work the way you think it does. 

I honestly don't remember saying that, but I trust you. I mean, they did go 1-0 against the HCC and that happened to be the HCC's second best team. 

[Footballking16]

7 minutes ago, BTF said:

I honestly don't remember saying that, but I trust you. I mean, they did go 1-0 against the HCC and that happened to be the HCC's second best team. 

Going 1-0 against the HCC in a winner take all elimination game is entirely different than going 9-1 against the HCC which was Westfield's record against all HCC opponents.

Edited August 27, 2024 by Footballking16

[BTF]

3 minutes ago, Footballking16 said:

Going 1-0 against the HCC in a winner take all elimination game is entirely different than going 9-1 against the HCC which was Westfield's record against all HCC opponents.

Oh yeah, back to that. 

I think the consensus is that the stronger the schedule the better the team. So Crown Point "resting" in the regular season probably isn't a good argument. 

There was also a pretty entailed study a few years ago that showed that a two hour drive has a very minimal impact on the outcome of a game. I used to think it made a big difference. Now I don't think it makes much of one at all. 

[Boilernation]

4 minutes ago, BTF said:

 

There was also a pretty entailed study a few years ago that showed that a two hour drive has a very minimal impact on the outcome of a game. I used to think it made a big difference. Now I don't think it makes much of one at all. 

I don't think it does either. most of time these kids are now traveling in chartered busses. 

[BTF]

Just now, Boilernation said:

I don't think it does either. most of time these kids are now traveling in chartered busses. 

I don't mind admitting when I'm wrong, and that was a debate that I ultimately lost. Now, if an Evansville team had to travel up to Fort Wayne, that might make a difference. But none of this two hour stuff. 

[Footballking16]

2 minutes ago, BTF said:

I think the consensus is that the stronger the schedule the better the team. So Crown Point "resting" in the regular season probably isn't a good argument.

If Westfield played Crown Point 10 times last year, how many do you think they win? I'll go with 7 based on Sagarin's projection leading up to the game. I trust his data a lot more than the transitive property or extrapolation based on a singular data point.  But that's the beauty of a one off, single elimination game; throw the records out the window. They don't matter.

 

5 minutes ago, BTF said:

There was also a pretty entailed study a few years ago that showed that a two hour drive has a very minimal impact on the outcome of a game. I used to think it made a big difference. Now I don't think it makes much of one at all. 

I don't think it's the difference in winning and losing, at least in Westfield's case. But one team had to travel 2.5 in a bus and the other team didn't, so there is a "difference" regardless of how much it factored into the final outcome. 

[Boilernation]

2 hours ago, scarab527 said:

If I never hear the phrases “caught them on the right night”, “no way they should have lost”, or anything similar again, I’ll be a happy man. 
 

Though I will say CP should not be ranked #2 in 6A.

Do you think the 'Dogs are better this year? The secondary was atrocius last year. I would guess the offense will be better this year as Ehrlich is now a Sr with a lot of experience going back to his Hobart days.

[BTF]

7 minutes ago, Footballking16 said:

If Westfield played Crown Point 10 times last year, how many do you think they win? 

Can I call a friend? I wasn't at the game last year. 

 

8 minutes ago, Footballking16 said:

I'll go with 7 based on Sagarin's projection leading up to the game. I trust his data

Sagarin is just for fun. Although I do think it's fairly accurate, there too many flaws with his ranking to use that as a gage for your question.

 

9 minutes ago, Footballking16 said:

But one team had to travel 2.5 in a bus and the other team didn't

Had to fact check that one. Googlemaps says 2 hours 9 minutes. Either way, I think you're going to lose that argument. We've been discussing this for a few years now. I was wrong at one time, I admit that now. The drive is hardly a factor. 

[Footballking16]

5 minutes ago, BTF said:

Had to fact check that one. Googlemaps says 2 hours 9 minutes. Either way, I think you're going to lose that argument. We've been discussing this for a few years now. I was wrong at one time, I admit that now. The drive is hardly a factor. 

Again, I don't think it's the difference in winning and losing. But most coaches are creatures of habit and their teams usually follow suit. It disrupts a normal routine, ie how they warm up, when they warm up, stuff that happens prior to taking the field, etc. Westfield didn't lose because of the bus ride, I think I've already said that. 

[scarab527]

11 minutes ago, Boilernation said:

Do you think the 'Dogs are better this year? The secondary was atrocius last year. I would guess the offense will be better this year as Ehrlich is now a Sr with a lot of experience going back to his Hobart days.

Have only seen them beat up a Lowell team that ain’t what it used to be, so hard to say. They did lose some key pieces on the offensive line and the defense, but have some key returners as well. Think they’ll be about the same level as last year, maybe a little better. 

[BTF]

8 minutes ago, Footballking16 said:

Again, I don't think it's the difference in winning and losing. But most coaches are creatures of habit and their teams usually follow suit. It disrupts a normal routine, ie how they warm up, when they warm up, stuff that happens prior to taking the field, etc. Westfield didn't lose because of the bus ride, I think I've already said that. 

Honestly, I'll have to defer to someone who was at the game. I didn't see either team in person last year. Hard to gage from watching on TV or the internet. 

I am curious though why Westfield suddenly decided to have an "off night" when it mattered the most. I guess it's possible that they were expecting a "break" and just weren't ready for the truck that was about to run over them. 

Edited August 27, 2024 by BTF

[Footballking16]

48 minutes ago, BTF said:

Honestly, I'll have to defer to someone who was at the game. I didn't see either team in person last year. Hard to gage from watching on TV or the internet. 

I am curious though why Westfield suddenly decided to have an "off night" when it mattered the most. I guess it's possible that they were expecting a "break" and just weren't ready for the truck that was about to run over them. 

Crown Point won in 2OT man. Let’s not act like this was a woodshed game. Had CP dominated from start to finish this conversation likely isn’t taking place. And I’ve given you several practical reasons as to why Westfield wasn’t playing in their third straight 6A title and it adds up to just not being their “night”. Credit Crown Point for that. 

[temptation]

51 minutes ago, BTF said:

Honestly, I'll have to defer to someone who was at the game. I didn't see either team in person last year. Hard to gage from watching on TV or the internet. 

I am curious though why Westfield suddenly decided to have an "off night" when it mattered the most. I guess it's possible that they were expecting a "break" and just weren't ready for the truck that was about to run over them. 

I mean, I wasn’t at the game and actually agree on your travel statement in terms of it being a minuscule factor but didn’t Westfield get down big early?

(And I’m not sure a 3 point double OT loss qualifies as getting run over by a truck.)

[Footballking16]

4 minutes ago, temptation said:

I mean, I wasn’t at the game and actually agree on your travel statement in terms of it being a minuscule factor but didn’t Westfield get down big early?

(And I’m not sure a 3 point double OT loss qualifies as getting run over by a truck.)

Yes down 17-0 at half. 

[temptation]

5 minutes ago, Footballking16 said:

Yes down 17-0 at half. 

Brownsburg’s win over Westfield last year DOES qualify as getting run over by a truck though.

[BTF]

3 hours ago, temptation said:

I mean, I wasn’t at the game and actually agree on your travel statement in terms of it being a minuscule factor but didn’t Westfield get down big early?

(And I’m not sure a 3 point double OT loss qualifies as getting run over by a truck.)

If memory serves me correctly, the Rocks went down big early and spent the rest of the game playing catch up. So yeah, at the start of the game, Westfield probably felt like they got hit by a truck. It's ok for the north to win once in awhile. Not sure why everyone is so upset by this victory. 

[WestfieldRocks]

8 hours ago, temptation said:

Nah, they caught Westfield on the right night.  They are a top half HCC team, which is going to be perceived as disrespect but is a compliment in and of itself.

Caught them at home after that three hour Westfield bus ride. I know that these long trip games used to be moved to Saturday years back, but now they all seem to play them on Friday.

[BTF]

3 hours ago, Footballking16 said:

Crown Point won in 2OT man. Let’s not act like this was a woodshed game. Had CP dominated from start to finish this conversation likely isn’t taking place. And I’ve given you several practical reasons as to why Westfield wasn’t playing in their third straight 6A title and it adds up to just not being their “night”. Credit Crown Point for that. 

Remind me of those practical reasons. Having a higher Sagarin Rating doesn't qualify. Crown Point had a heck of a year from beginning to end. You Indy guys act like it was some sort of fluke that they were there. Let's face it, Crown Point, Carroll, and Snider.........now Jeff, have posted some pretty good wins over Indy. It's not the end of the world. Or is it?

[BTF]

1 minute ago, WestfieldRocks said:

Caught them at home after that three hour Westfield bus ride. I know that these long trip games used to be moved to Saturday years back, but now they all seem to play them on Friday.

Three hours now? First it was 2.5 hours. Does Westfield check googlemaps and always take the longest route? Two hours nine minutes.

[temptation]

7 minutes ago, BTF said:

If memory serves me correctly, the Rocks went down big early and spent the rest of the game playing catch up. So yeah, at the start of the game, Westfield probably felt like they got hit by a truck. It's ok for the north to win once in awhile. Not sure why everyone is so upset by this victory. 

No one is “upset”, lol.  You can’t get upset when folks dismiss these types of games as “one offs” when looking in an unbiased manner at the last 25 years of large school football in our state.

Carroll and Crown Point were cute stories and then they got “ trucked” (appropriate here) a week later by Indy powers.

I long for parity in 6A and am hopeful that 2024 delivers.  We’ve seen glimpses but I want chaos.

Edited August 28, 2024 by temptation

[WestfieldRocks]

4 hours ago, Boilernation said:

I don't think it does either. most of time these kids are now traveling in chartered busses. 

Westfield went to CP in their own school busses. For me, that was a mistake. It's not like the school system doesn't have enough cash to charter busses.

[temptation]

5 minutes ago, BTF said:

Remind me of those practical reasons. Having a higher Sagarin Rating doesn't qualify. Crown Point had a heck of a year from beginning to end. You Indy guys act like it was some sort of fluke that they were there. Let's face it, Crown Point, Carroll, and Snider.........now Jeff, have posted some pretty good wins over Indy. It's not the end of the world. Or is it?

Who in the hell has Jeff beaten?  A rebuilding Avon program or we talking those big conference wins over Tech?

[Footballking16]

4 minutes ago, BTF said:

Remind me of those practical reasons. Having a higher Sagarin Rating doesn't qualify. Crown Point had a heck of a year from beginning to end. You Indy guys act like it was some sort of fluke that they were there. Let's face it, Crown Point, Carroll, and Snider.........now Jeff, have posted some pretty good wins over Indy. It's not the end of the world. Or is it?

Fluke to be in semi-state? They played nobody for 3 months, as typically is the case for whoever comes out of sectional 1/2. 

[WestfieldRocks]

3 hours ago, temptation said:

I mean, I wasn’t at the game and actually agree on your travel statement in terms of it being a minuscule factor but didn’t Westfield get down big early?

(And I’m not sure a 3 point double OT loss qualifies as getting run over by a truck.)

Yep. Westfield was awful that first half. If I remember, they were well into the second quarter before they even picked up a first down. Second half, their 1,100 plus running back, who now plays for Warren Central, was pretty much unstoppable. If Gilbert goes for two after Westfield tied up that game late, I think he gets in and Westfield likely wins. Again, just an opinion.

[Footballking16]

3 minutes ago, temptation said:

Who in the hell has Jeff beaten?  A rebuilding Avon program or we talking those big conference wins over Tech?

Rebuilding is generous as Avon has been largely terrible for the last 4-5 years. Which is saying something because they’d be one of the better teams in the DAC.