DPI on TD catch-- 15 yard penalty was applied to ensuing kickoff

[slice60]

In any Indy-area HS game played last Saturday (due to the weather postponements), Defensive Pass Interference was called but the receiver caught the ball & ran for a TD. The officials marked off the 15-yard penalty on the ensuing kickoff so the scoring team kicked off from the opponent's 45yd line.

To my knowledge, the only infractions in which the penalty yardage could be applied to the ensuing kickoff would be Personal Foul or Unsportsmanlike Conduct. Thanks in advance for sharing your knowledge!

[Bobref]

7 hours ago, slice60 said:

In any Indy-area HS game played last Saturday (due to the weather postponements), Defensive Pass Interference was called but the receiver caught the ball & ran for a TD. The officials marked off the 15-yard penalty on the ensuing kickoff so the scoring team kicked off from the opponent's 45yd line.

To my knowledge, the only infractions in which the penalty yardage could be applied to the ensuing kickoff would be Personal Foul or Unsportsmanlike Conduct. Thanks in advance for sharing your knowledge!

That is the correct enforcement. If the opponent fouls during a play in which a TD is scored, the offended team has the option of having the DPI enforced either on the try or the succeeding kickoff.

[slice60]

5 hours ago, Bobref said:

That is the correct enforcement. If the opponent fouls during a play in which a TD is scored, the offended team has the option of having the DPI enforced either on the try or the succeeding kickoff.

Wow! Is that a high school only rule? I seem to see defensive penalties on a TD declined by the scoring team on Saturdays & Sundays all the time.

And that applies to every type of penalty, even a 5 yard Offside penalty?

[Bobref]

9 minutes ago, slice60 said:

And that applies to every type of penalty, even a 5 yard Offside penalty?

There is no “offside” in high school football. There’s encroachment, but it’s a dead ball foul. But, generally speaking, in high school football if the opponent of the scoring team fouls on a play that scores a TD, the score stands and the penalty for the foul can be enforced either on the try or the succeeding kickoff.

[slice60]

Gotcha. So the high school rules dictate that any defensive penalty can be enforced on XP or kickoff. I got fooled by seeing all of these basic defensive penalties (including DPI) get declined on TD's in college & pro games.

Frankly, this seems like another HS rule which is too punitive (like the offensive holding spot-foul behind the LOS--which has been changed). In my opinion, only 15 yard Personal Foul & Unsportsmanlike Conduct penalties should be carried over.

[Bobref]

31 minutes ago, slice60 said:

any defensive penalty can be enforced on XP or kickoff

Same thing for a dead ball foul that occurs after the TD but before the ball is ready for play on the try. 

[miner_35]

15 hours ago, Bobref said:

That is the correct enforcement. If the opponent fouls during a play in which a TD is scored, the offended team has the option of having the DPI enforced either on the try or the succeeding kickoff.

This is true unless the offense commits a hold during a passing play that is intercepted and returned for a touchdown. The hold has to be declined to keep the touchdown since it happened before the change of possession, correct?

[Bobref]

23 minutes ago, miner_35 said:

This is true unless the offense commits a hold during a passing play that is intercepted and returned for a touchdown. The hold has to be declined to keep the touchdown since it happened before the change of possession, correct?

That’s why I said “generally.”

[miner_35]

On 10/4/2024 at 11:07 PM, Bobref said:

That’s why I said “generally.”

“Generally” I try to help those out by throwing out the other scenarios for the clarification. Sorry if I came off as abrasive. 

[Bobref]

3 hours ago, miner_35 said:

“Generally” I try to help those out by throwing out the other scenarios for the clarification. Sorry if I came off as abrasive. 

Not at all. 

[JustRules]

On 10/4/2024 at 1:39 PM, slice60 said:

Gotcha. So the high school rules dictate that any defensive penalty can be enforced on XP or kickoff. I got fooled by seeing all of these basic defensive penalties (including DPI) get declined on TD's in college & pro games.

Frankly, this seems like another HS rule which is too punitive (like the offensive holding spot-foul behind the LOS--which has been changed). In my opinion, only 15 yard Personal Foul & Unsportsmanlike Conduct penalties should be carried over.

One of the biggest issues with fans (and sometimes coaches and players) is they assume NFL and NCAA rules apply on Friday nights. When we hear fans complaining about calls using NFL or NCAA rules, we just shake our heads. You lose a lot of credibility very quickly when you do that. Glad you sought understanding here.

[Irishman]

8 hours ago, JustRules said:

One of the biggest issues with fans (and sometimes coaches and players) is they assume NFL and NCAA rules apply on Friday nights. When we hear fans complaining about calls using NFL or NCAA rules, we just shake our heads. You lose a lot of credibility very quickly when you do that. Glad you sought understanding here.

I hear those things often from broadcasters when I watch or listen online as well. It seems the most common thing I hear is “that ball was not catchable” or something like it when the speaker thinks DPI should not have been called. 

[JustRules]

8 hours ago, Irishman said:

I hear those things often from broadcasters when I watch or listen online as well. It seems the most common thing I hear is “that ball was not catchable” or something like it when the speaker thinks DPI should not have been called. 

The first thing I realized when I became an official was I had previously gotten most of my rules knowledge from announcers on games. And while they don't intentionally do it, they give out a lot of bad information. Many I know try to get it right and ask a lot of questions when scenarios happen. But if they don't know they are wrong they will continue to give bad information. This happens at all levels, even with the best announcers.

[slice60]

On 10/6/2024 at 9:55 PM, JustRules said:

One of the biggest issues with fans (and sometimes coaches and players) is they assume NFL and NCAA rules apply on Friday nights. When we hear fans complaining about calls using NFL or NCAA rules, we just shake our heads. You lose a lot of credibility very quickly when you do that. Glad you sought understanding here.

Follow-up. My question originated from the Franklin Central at Noblesville varsity game in early October. As noted in my original post, DPI was called against FC on a Noblesville TD pass. When given the choice, Noblesville chose to have the 15-yard penalty enforced on the ensuing kickoff.

This past Saturday, I attended the Westfield at FC junior varsity game. DPI was called against Westfield on a FC TD pass. Without consulting the FC sideline, the head referee signaled that the penalty was declined in favor of the TD. After the PAT, a FC coach had an extended conversation with the entire 4-man crew in an attempt to plead the case that FC has the right to have the penalty enforced on the ensuing kickoff. The crew obviously disagreed as the kickoff was taken at the 40. The FC coach was correct. The crew made a mistake.

Just like me, some licensed Indiana HS officials need to come here to learn some valuable lessons from Bobref.

[crimsonace1]

On 10/7/2024 at 2:34 PM, JustRules said:

The first thing I realized when I became an official was I had previously gotten most of my rules knowledge from announcers on games. And while they don't intentionally do it, they give out a lot of bad information. Many I know try to get it right and ask a lot of questions when scenarios happen. But if they don't know they are wrong they will continue to give bad information. This happens at all levels, even with the best announcers.

This is why, as a broadcaster, I try to keep up with the rules (and if something unusual happens in a game, I ask an officiating friend - you've been a big help a couple of times), because I want to make sure we're *not* giving our listeners bad information. I often find myself explaining on-air the differences between NCAA & NFHS rules (especially when there's DPI when there's 15+ yards to gain and it doesn't yield a first down, or what happens when a missed field goal attempt crosses the goal line and comes out to the 20). 

Funny thing is, someone approached me at church on Sunday and asked me about *this specific play*, and I was able to tell him - because of this forum - that the offended team has the option to enforce the penalty on the try or kickoff in NFHS rules. 

I also broadcast hockey and keep a copy of the league rulebook in my bag so I can refer to it in an unusual situation. 

[Impartial_Observer]

Saturday mornings were bandied about in this thread, also of note, not Friday nights is a great spot for aspiring R’a to cut their teeth. Give em a little latitude. 

[JustRules]

8 hours ago, Impartial_Observer said:

Saturday mornings were bandied about in this thread, also of note, not Friday nights is a great spot for aspiring R’a to cut their teeth. Give em a little latitude. 

Exactly! No official has worked a perfect game. And not every official has a clear understanding of every rule. You can read a rule 1000 times and until it happens to you on the field, it's not going to committed for immediate retrieval in your memory when you need it. This example is pretty pretty straight forward, but a lot of people don't get all the nuances of penalty enforcement committed to memory if they haven't worked R. That's why I always encourage new officials to get some experience at R in their first season.