Confidently Incorrect

[5GetsYou1]

Sometimes I can't help but laugh when you hear fans shouting out rules that are 100% wrong but they think they are 100% correct. Some recent ones that come to mind:

 

"Roughing the kicker isn't an automatic first down!"

"That's not a horse collar, he took him all the way to the ground!"

 

What are some confidently incorrect calls from fans or coaches that stand out to you? 

[Bobref]

Punt. Returner muffs the kick at about the 7 yd. line. Turns around on a muddy field to recover it, and accidentally kicks it. Subsequently touched by multiple players of both teams, and winds up in the end zone where a member of the kicking team falls on it. They go crazy. After talking to my back judge, I step out and give the touchback signal … and they go crazy again. So, I head over to the kickers’ head coach to explain, and the defensive coordinator meets me at the numbers. “Hey, they touched the ball first and then we recovered in the end zone!” I barely slow down as I walk right past him and say “you’re exactly right, Coach.” He was dumbstruck, as I went on to explain to the head coach why it wasn’t a TD.

[5GetsYou1]

Just heard another one on a replay, "If an offensive linemen lays on someone after a pancake block that's not holding, that's just what happens!" 

[JustRules]

Most of them have to do with confusing NFL and NCAA rules with NFHS rules. For example, defenders in the neutral zone before the snap, but they got back. Uncatchable pass on a DPI. Returner bringing a kick out of the end zone. Breaking the huddle with 12. The other one is something coaches don't realize is a waste of energy: yelling "hold" on almost every play as if we aren't watching for illegal blocks. The only thing that does is result in us not listening to much of anything else you have to say.

[slice60]

On 11/6/2024 at 7:59 AM, 5GetsYou1 said:

Just heard another one on a replay, "If an offensive linemen lays on someone after a pancake block that's not holding, that's just what happens!" 

At the risk of opening my mouth & revealing my own ignorance, if a blocker legally blocks/knocks down a defender & lands on top of the defender, is it a Holding penalty if the offensive player lays on top of the defensive player without using his hands/arms to hold him down? If the answer is yes, then you are telling me that an offensive player can be flagged for Holding without using his hands/arms to hold the defensive player down. That seems strange.

Just curious-- did you hear an announcer say this is the Center Grove-Warren Central game? I was there. I believe that the white hat flagged a CG OL for this exact infraction at the moment a CG runner was tackled 20 yards downfield. Maybe that's how the rule is written but it doesn't make sense to me. If an offensive player is allowed to block until the whistle when both players are on their feet, why should the offensive player have to immediately get off of the defender (ie. stop blocking) before the play has ended just because they are both on the ground?

[slice60]

On 11/4/2024 at 8:37 AM, 5GetsYou1 said:

Sometimes I can't help but laugh when you hear fans shouting out rules that are 100% wrong but they think they are 100% correct. Some recent ones that come to mind:

 

"Roughing the kicker isn't an automatic first down!"

"That's not a horse collar, he took him all the way to the ground!"

 

What are some confidently incorrect calls from fans or coaches that stand out to you? 

Why is it an automatic first down in HS for Roughing the Kicker/Punter & Roughing the Passer but not for a Personal Foul or Personal Foul-15 yard Facemask? Is a Unsportsmanlike Conduct penalty against the defense an automatic first down in HS?

[Yuccaguy]

3 minutes ago, slice60 said:

Why is it an automatic first down in HS for Roughing the Kicker/Punter & Roughing the Passer but not for a Personal Foul or Personal Foul-15 yard Facemask? Is a Unsportsmanlike Conduct penalty against the defense an automatic first down in HS?

Because that's the way the NFHS wrote the rule. 

NO, just the 4 "roughings" result in an automatic 1st down.  (don't forget roughing the snapper #4) 

Edited November 23, 2024 by Yuccaguy

[5GetsYou1]

On 11/23/2024 at 10:53 AM, slice60 said:

At the risk of opening my mouth & revealing my own ignorance, if a blocker legally blocks/knocks down a defender & lands on top of the defender, is it a Holding penalty if the offensive player lays on top of the defensive player without using his hands/arms to hold him down? If the answer is yes, then you are telling me that an offensive player can be flagged for Holding without using his hands/arms to hold the defensive player down. That seems strange.

Just curious-- did you hear an announcer say this is the Center Grove-Warren Central game? I was there. I believe that the white hat flagged a CG OL for this exact infraction at the moment a CG runner was tackled 20 yards downfield. Maybe that's how the rule is written but it doesn't make sense to me. If an offensive player is allowed to block until the whistle when both players are on their feet, why should the offensive player have to immediately get off of the defender (ie. stop blocking) before the play has ended just because they are both on the ground?

You started to answer your own question there, it isn't holding to block a player and land on top of him. It is a foul (a physical restraint, it doesn't have to be with his hands) to lay on top of him and not allow him to get up. So we have holding, which the blocker gained an competitive advantage, at the point of attack. It's also a judgement call, you won't see this called the same way every time. 

That wasn't the game I was referring to, it was film from the middle of the season that I was watching to scout a team before a game. 

[JustRules]

8 hours ago, 5GetsYou1 said:

You started to answer your own question there, it isn't holding to block a player and land on top of him. It is a foul (a physical restraint, it doesn't have to be with his hands) to lay on top of him and not allow him to get up. So we have holding, which the blocker gained an competitive advantage, at the point of attack. It's also a judgement call, you won't see this called the same way every time. 

That wasn't the game I was referring to, it was film from the middle of the season that I was watching to scout a team before a game. 

Generally by the time the pancake happens and the blocker would be able to get up, the runner is long gone. The exception might be a T who blocks a DE and they are still on the ground with the passer in the pocket. But for the most part this situation would not result in a holding foul. But it could definitely turn into a personal foul if the blocker doesn't get up efficiently or the defender gets rough trying to get him off. When I see this I get to them ASAP and tell the blocker to get off. If they know we are there, neither play is likely to do anything. You can usually prevent this from turning into a foul, but sometimes the players will do what they do.

[Impartial_Observer]

19 hours ago, JustRules said:

Generally by the time the pancake happens and the blocker would be able to get up, the runner is long gone. The exception might be a T who blocks a DE and they are still on the ground with the passer in the pocket. But for the most part this situation would not result in a holding foul. But it could definitely turn into a personal foul if the blocker doesn't get up efficiently or the defender gets rough trying to get him off. When I see this I get to them ASAP and tell the blocker to get off. If they know we are there, neither play is likely to do anything. You can usually prevent this from turning into a foul, but sometimes the players will do what they do.

Agreed 100%, as the WH I’m trailing, move on, move on, pancakes, two lineman pushing and shoving, you can usually talk them out of stupid stuff. 

[Bobref]

21 hours ago, JustRules said:

If they know we are there, neither play is likely to do anything. You can usually prevent this from turning into a foul, but sometimes the players will do what they do.

Worked at a rural 1A school one Friday. Heavy favorite to win the game. 1st drive, their QB is passing from the pocket, and an onrushing defender is blocked to the ground, and just manages to reach out and grab the QB’s ankle a split second after he delivers the pass. He’s facedown, so he doesn’t know the ball is gone … so he holds on. The QB looks over his shoulder and, not seeing me, hauls off and kicks the prone defender in the head. Of course, the reason he didn’t see me was because I was over his other shoulder. 😂    I kicked him out. Some drunk guy standing outside the fence rode me mercilessly until the AD finally chased him away in the middle of the 3rd period.