Pound for Pound Poll

[23andCounting]

Thought this one might be kind of fun. Just to clarify, we're basing each program on how strong they are in relation to the size of their school. In other words, what if every school had the same enrollment. This is for 2025 only. 

1.   New Palestine

2.  Adams Central

3.  Decatur Central

4.  Lafayette Jefferson

5.  East Central

6.  Heritage Hills

7.  East Noble

8.  Gibson Southern

9.  Westfield

10. Merrillville

 

[temptation]

23 minutes ago, 23andCounting said:

Thought this one might be kind of fun. Just to clarify, we're basing each program on how strong they are in relation to the size of their school. In other words, what if every school had the same enrollment. This is for 2025 only. 

1.   New Palestine

2.  Adams Central

3.  Decatur Central

4.  Lafayette Jefferson

5.  East Central

6.  Heritage Hills

7.  East Noble

8.  Gibson Southern

9.  Westfield

10. Merrillville

 

No Dwenger?

[23andCounting]

23 minutes ago, temptation said:

No Dwenger?

This year? Probably not. I think those programs are better pound for pound. If I put Dwenger in there, I'd have to give consideration to Roncalli and Chatard. Polls like these are iffy and warrant several different opinions. 

[23andCounting]

Forgot about Brownstown. I'm sure they might fit in somewhere. 

[First_Backer_Inside]

Adams Central at #2 is way to high if you are going off of 2025.

[temptation]

1 hour ago, 23andCounting said:

This year? Probably not. I think those programs are better pound for pound. If I put Dwenger in there, I'd have to give consideration to Roncalli and Chatard. Polls like these are iffy and warrant several different opinions. 

P/P schools exempt?

[23andCounting]

13 minutes ago, temptation said:

P/P schools exempt?

I don't think so. They're just hard to measure without distinct school boundaries and a massively low free/reduced lunch rate. Like I said, this is more for fun and hard to measure. I could see a lot of different opinions here. I'd love to go into battle with programs like Cathedral and Luers, but this year, those ten plus Brownstown seem to jump off the charts. 

[foxbat]

1 hour ago, 23andCounting said:

I don't think so. They're just hard to measure without distinct school boundaries and a massively low free/reduced lunch rate. Like I said, this is more for fun and hard to measure. I could see a lot of different opinions here. I'd love to go into battle with programs like Cathedral and Luers, but this year, those ten plus Brownstown seem to jump off the charts. 

 

4 hours ago, 23andCounting said:

Thought this one might be kind of fun. Just to clarify, we're basing each program on how strong they are in relation to the size of their school. In other words, what if every school had the same enrollment. This is for 2025 only. 

1.   New Palestine

2.  Adams Central

3.  Decatur Central

4.  Lafayette Jefferson

5.  East Central

6.  Heritage Hills

7.  East Noble

8.  Gibson Southern

9.  Westfield

10. Merrillville

 

Too high on the list; especially if Chatard's not on the list.  If Jeff's #4 as a 5A (nee 6A) school, then Chatard as a 4A (nee 3A) should be on that list too.  Still not really sold on Jeff.  Granted, didn't get to see them play Chatard in person, but did see them play Harrison and, given where Harrison is this year ... their three wins have come over teams that are 5A, 4A, and 3A with a collective W/L of 4-14 ... I wouldn't put Jeff in a list of 10 pound-for-pound or at least not in the top half.  May change my mind when I see Chatard up-close-and-personal on Friday, but I'm thinking we'll have to wait until regionals to see where Jeff shakes out as the remainder of their season won't provide any real measurement points since the remainder of games left to play are against teams that are currently a collective 6-12 with Muncie Central , a 4A team at 3-3, being the strongest of the remaining.  The sectionals won't help on data points either as Sectional 12 is really weak, even before the season started, outside of Jeff. 

[23andCounting]

17 minutes ago, foxbat said:

Too high on the list; especially if Chatard's not on the list.  

Most years Jeff wouldn't make my Top 10, but this team seems a little different, do they not? Chatard could make a case, for sure. Even with Chatard's limited enrollment, something tells me they get some good football players from outside of their system. They also have a better socioeconomic status than Jeff.  So I go back and forth with them being Top 10.

[Rodney]

what does socioeconomic status have to do with pound for pound football programs

[23andCounting]

Just now, Rodney said:

what does socioeconomic status have to do with pound for pound football programs

Let's say two schools have the same enrollment. School A has 8% of their students who are qualified for a free lunch. At School B, that number is 45%. Does school A have an advantage? We see how Suburban America pretty much dominates everything. Perhaps there's a correlation? 

[Muda69]

6 minutes ago, Rodney said:

what does socioeconomic status have to do with pound for pound football programs

This:

https://indianagps.doe.in.gov/Summary/School/3435

 

[23andCounting]

The Indy Metro would be a good example. Some of the worst football in the state being played inside the donut, some of the best outside the donut. 

[PDB26]

15 minutes ago, Rodney said:

what does socioeconomic status have to do with pound for pound football programs

I agree, but I don't think its a bad factor in a discussion about underachieving programs.

5 minutes ago, Muda69 said:

This:

https://indianagps.doe.in.gov/Summary/School/3435

 

I thought Frankfort struggles because everyone wants to play soccer.

[Rodney]

pound for pound is about size of the school 

chatard should absolutely be on the list

and jeff/DC have no business being above GS or HH

where is CG going toe to toe with schools twice their size every year

[23andCounting]

10 minutes ago, Rodney said:

1. pound for pound is about size of the school 

2. chatard should absolutely be on the list

3. and jeff/DC have no business being above GS or HH

4. where is CG going toe to toe with schools twice their size every year

1.  Well, it's actually about having the same resources. Socioeconomic factors can really make things complicated. So let's just roll with enrollment size for now. 

2. They could certainly make a case. 

3. I think if you're looking at Jeff in 2025, they might be above GS or HH. Past decade? No. I can see your point regarding DC. 

4. Again, another program that could certainly make a case. Right now I have CG ranked somewhere between 11-15. 

[PDB26]

Is there a second Westfield out there somewhere?

[temptation]

4 hours ago, 23andCounting said:

I don't think so. They're just hard to measure without distinct school boundaries and a massively low free/reduced lunch rate. Like I said, this is more for fun and hard to measure. I could see a lot of different opinions here. I'd love to go into battle with programs like Cathedral and Luers, but this year, those ten plus Brownstown seem to jump off the charts. 

I’ve been told citing free and reduced rate makes you an outcast…

43 minutes ago, PDB26 said:

Is there a second Westfield out there somewhere?

Whiteland.  Give it a few more years.

[foxbat]

2 hours ago, 23andCounting said:

Most years Jeff wouldn't make my Top 10, but this team seems a little different, do they not? Chatard could make a case, for sure. Even with Chatard's limited enrollment, something tells me they get some good football players from outside of their system. They also have a better socioeconomic status than Jeff.  So I go back and forth with them being Top 10.

Would agree mostly, although I would say that Jeff has almost always had the POTENTIAL to go further, but typically hasn't.  In watching them at the Jeff-Harrison game, they have a bigger line than they've had in the past and they have a couple of really good players in Vanostran, on offense, and Aytch, on defense.  They also have a shorter scat back ... he's actually a running back, but moves like a scat back ... I think it might be Adkins or maybe Fernandez.  Man that kid can fly when they get him on the outside.

I think part of what's getting the attention is that they are now down in 5A vs. 6A.  For me, seeing them every year, the main thing I see that's different about them is the line size.  I mean, if we go back to the Maximums Grimes years, there was lots of talent on those teams that should have gone far, but realistically Jeff, like just about most of the bottom 16 in 6A was destined to bow out early.  Again, I think a really big part of why there's the perception of something different is decently attributable to their odds in 5A vs. their odds in 6A when they were there.  Again, they have talent this year and the line size seems bigger, but having followed Jeff for a quarter century, I think the teams of the last decade, since Moore turned things around and Shanley has kept them turned around, have all had the potential.  Perhaps this year's team may have a little different feel to them, again, I think it's the line that's the factor, but I'm not sure I think it's a big enough item to take them into a pound-for-pound top 5 ranking.  

 

[Rodney]

we are talking about a school in a pound for pound discussion, citing that they will have a better odds when moving down a class.

 

HH is most likely the 4a favorite playing up a class

Jeff is literally moved down to 5a where they will not compete for a state championship.

Jeff would not be the favorite playing against GS or HH (3a teams by size).


1. NP
2. CG
3.-4. GS/HH

will omit Chatard/Cathedral, though in a true pound for pound chart they are absolutely on the list, in the top 5 most years. Don't know where to rank them this year as this is not their greatest performing year.

Adams central omitted, I'm well aware they are good, however I do not follow them, and thus have no idea how good/where to put them, however they would be on the list somewhere
 

Pound for Pound is literally robbed from weight class discussions in combat sports.

there is no free or reduced lunch discussion to be had. it is simply how does small school compare to large school.

 

[PHJIrish]

Southport scored their first touchdown of the season in their 6th game.  It's not a small school, or a disadvantaged one, they just don't have many football players, or so it seems.

[Bears62]

47 minutes ago, Rodney said:

we are talking about a school in a pound for pound discussion, citing that they will have a better odds when moving down a class.

 

HH is most likely the 4a favorite playing up a class

Jeff is literally moved down to 5a where they will not compete for a state championship.

Jeff would not be the favorite playing against GS or HH (3a teams by size).


1. NP
2. CG
3.-4. GS/HH

will omit Chatard/Cathedral, though in a true pound for pound chart they are absolutely on the list, in the top 5 most years. Don't know where to rank them this year as this is not their greatest performing year.

Adams central omitted, I'm well aware they are good, however I do not follow them, and thus have no idea how good/where to put them, however they would be on the list somewhere
 

Pound for Pound is literally robbed from weight class discussions in combat sports.

there is no free or reduced lunch discussion to be had. it is simply how does small school compare to large school.

 

I would comfortably bet on Jeff to beat either of those teams, no disrespect to either. I don't think you're giving them the credit they deserve

And I bet most people are considering Chatard the 4a favorite over HH. I don't know where you came up with that

 

[Rodney]

4 minutes ago, Bears62 said:

I would comfortably bet on Jeff to beat either of those teams, no disrespect to either. I don't think you're giving them the credit they deserve

And I bet most people are considering Chatard the 4a favorite over HH. I don't know where you came up with that

 

Easy, I watched chatard play

 

Sagarin has Jeff as a 4.5 favorite over gs and 1.5 over HH

 

which is  a load but still proves my point that they have no place on this list

[Bears62]

2 minutes ago, Rodney said:

Easy, I watched chatard play

 

Sagarin has Jeff as a 4.5 favorite over gs and 1.5 over HH

 

which is  a load but still proves my point that they have no place on this list

I have watched Chatard twice and have thought they looked very good, I don't know what games you watched, but they have been impressive in my eyes

 

I agree Jeff is too high on the list, but their offense would shred both GS and HH, that is my point

[Rodney]

I watched chatard completely fall apart and hand cathedral a win.

 

Oh and pass coverage.

 

 

Their defensive line did look good though.