Temp’s Top 25 (After Week 7)

[23andCounting]

47 minutes ago, FastpacedO said:

I think you should go back and do a double take on your FW Carroll and Westfield common opponent hot take.

Common Opponent number 1:

Westfield over Homestead 35-0

FW Carroll over Homestead 49-0

Common Opponent number 2:

Westfield over Hamilton Southeastern 21-17

Hamilton Southeastern over FW Carroll 14-7

I won't make Westfield out to be the better than what they are. I will say Westfield is the only team to hold Brownsburg to 14 points in a 14-10 loss 1 week ago. Brownsburg is averaging 39 points per game so that is not something to just gloss over. That being said there is a resurging Carmel team who looks to be the likely favorite from the north what a difference when Coach Wright came in as Head Coach a 3-7 team last year sitting at 6-1 this year.

Common 1: Carroll had Homestead down 35-0 at halftime, whereas it took Westfield the entire game to achieve 35-0. Edge Carroll.

Common 1: Carroll loses to HSE by one touchdown without their best offensive weapon. Even

@temptation would call touting Westfield's loss to Brownsburg 14-0 a moral victory. Wait, moral victories are only for teams up north. My take Westfield's loss to Brownsburg: Shows that they are a pretty darn team. The drubbing they took from Carmel wasn't a good look, but hell, the Greyhounds might do that to everyone this year. We'll find out at semi-state. Hard to compete with good coaching and 5000 students. 

[23andCounting]

1 minute ago, temptation said:

But you do so while glossing over the dozens of examples in which those northern teams got mud stomped.

Talk to me about "mud swamped," in 2025. Remember, we're only discussing CP and Carroll since those are the only 6A Northern teams I've touted as Top 10 programs. Please don't bring up Homestead's 35-0 loss to Westfield. Carroll did that to them by halftime and I've never mentioned Homestead as one of the better northern teams. Now, back to "mud swamped." I'll wait a few minutes, then I have to go. 

[BLACKGOLD2007]

4 minutes ago, temptation said:

But you do so while glossing over the dozens of examples in which those northern teams got mud stomped.

to be fair about half of those are Penn games. 

[temptation]

2 minutes ago, BLACKGOLD2007 said:

to be fair about half of those are Penn games. 

Beat me to it.

Just a general statement.  Northern teams’ record against the central Indiana squads speak for themselves.

[23andCounting]

2 minutes ago, BLACKGOLD2007 said:

to be fair about half of those are Penn games. 

I think we're only talking 2025. If not, could I bring up 33-6 and 42-20 in 2023? I'm trying to be fair. 

[temptation]

6 minutes ago, 23andCounting said:

Talk to me about "mud swamped," in 2025. Remember, we're only discussing CP and Carroll since those are the only 6A Northern teams I've touted as Top 10 programs. Please don't bring up Homestead's 35-0 loss to Westfield. Carroll did that to them by halftime and I've never mentioned Homestead as one of the better northern teams. Now, back to "mud swamped." I'll wait a few minutes, then I have to go. 

You REALLY think Carroll is a top ten program right now?

Edited October 6, 2025 by temptation

[23andCounting]

1 minute ago, temptation said:

Beat me to it.

Just a general statement.  Northern teams’ record against the central Indiana squads speak for themselves.

See above. 

[temptation]

1 minute ago, 23andCounting said:

See above. 

No, I wasn’t referring only to 2025…

[23andCounting]

1 minute ago, temptation said:

You REALLY think Carroll is a top ten program?

Not sure to be honest. But again, I have them as Westfield's equal at the moment. So maybe. They're playing good right now. Not scoring a touchdown against Dwenger was a bit disturbing, but the Saints probably rank somewhere in the Top 3 statewide defensively. And as you said, that game may have been an anomaly. 

[BLACKGOLD2007]

4 minutes ago, temptation said:

Beat me to it.

Just a general statement.  Northern teams’ record against the central Indiana squads speak for themselves.

haha I know, I was just trying to bring the humor. 

[23andCounting]

1 minute ago, temptation said:

No, I wasn’t referring only to 2025…

Okay, so it's fair to bring up Snider's dominance over DC and WC in 2023? Not really sure how it relates to 2025. 

[23andCounting]

20 minutes ago, 23andCounting said:

Okay, so it's fair to bring up Snider's dominance over DC and WC in 2023? Not really sure how it relates to 2025. 

Crickets suddenly? Or coincidence? 

Pre-season of 2022, you said "I'm waiting."  Since that quote:

2023:

Snider 42, Warren Central 20

Carroll 18, Warren Central 14

Snider 33, Decatur Central 6

Crown Point 38, Westfield 31

2022: Carroll 20, Hamilton Southeastern 15

Five impressive wins from the North over by three different teams against Indy powers. What's the problem? You asked, they delivered. There's some good big boy football being played up here @temptation.

 

[Rodney]

Cam we please talk about how CP'S only legitimate win is against Merriville, who themselves dont even have a win on record worth declaring them a good team.

You cannot even really transitive property these teams, it doesn't hold up. We're just going off historical performance, and the historical performance doesn't look good!

Also I think carrol is pretty good this year

[23andCounting]

15 minutes ago, Rodney said:

Cam we please talk about how CP'S only legitimate win is against Merriville, who themselves dont even have a win on record worth declaring them a good team.

You cannot even really transitive property these teams, it doesn't hold up. We're just going off historical performance, and the historical performance doesn't look good!

Also I think carrol is pretty good this year

Fair. All we have to go on for Crown Point is their win over Merrillville. It's a "wait and see." However, based on everything we've seen so far, all we know is that everyone in the northern bracket is probably playing for second place behind Carmel. 

[PDB26]

CP is a good team, but it’s hard to imagine them bullying Carmel or Westfield for a full 48. CP is +27.5 against either, and a moral victory would be something like keeping it to 14.

[FastpacedO]

1 hour ago, 23andCounting said:

Common 1: Carroll had Homestead down 35-0 at halftime, whereas it took Westfield the entire game to achieve 35-0. Edge Carroll.

Common 1: Carroll loses to HSE by one touchdown without their best offensive weapon. Even

@temptation would call touting Westfield's loss to Brownsburg 14-0 a moral victory. Wait, moral victories are only for teams up north. My take Westfield's loss to Brownsburg: Shows that they are a pretty darn team. The drubbing they took from Carmel wasn't a good look, but hell, the Greyhounds might do that to everyone this year. We'll find out at semi-state. Hard to compete with good coaching and 5000 students. 

Common opponent 1 - One played them week 1 and the other week 7I would think both teams have improved since week 1. Aside from that Westfield is more of a run first team Carroll is a pass heavy team. Westfield amassed 262 yds rushing and 63 yds passing holding Homestead to 71 passing and 22 rushing. Carroll threw for 300 ran for 71 holding Homestead to 148 passing 87 rushing.

Common Opponent 2 - A loss is a loss.

I didn't and wouldn't tout a loss to Brownsburg. I simply said them holding Brownsburg who is averaging 39 points per game to 14 points is eye opening (says Westfield's defense is pretty solid) that being said their Offense only scored 10 points. Brownsburg in my opinion is better than all 6A teams with Carmel likely the closest to them.

[temptation]

2 hours ago, 23andCounting said:

Crickets suddenly? Or coincidence? 

Pre-season of 2022, you said "I'm waiting."  Since that quote:

2023:

Snider 42, Warren Central 20

Carroll 18, Warren Central 14

Snider 33, Decatur Central 6

Crown Point 38, Westfield 31

2022: Carroll 20, Hamilton Southeastern 15

Five impressive wins from the North over by three different teams against Indy powers. What's the problem? You asked, they delivered. There's some good big boy football being played up here @temptation.

 

In this instance we are referring to Temp’s top 25 which is littered with 6A teams.

The largest division in Indiana has had its state championship game before Lucas Oil in nearly every circumstance…

No one north of Hamilton County has even put up a fight.

You can’t ignore those facts nor pretend there is some sort of unwarranted disrespect from the central Indiana teams…

They (we) need to see it to believe it.

 

Edited October 6, 2025 by temptation

[Bash Riprock]

4 hours ago, 23andCounting said:

Common 1: Carroll had Homestead down 35-0 at halftime, whereas it took Westfield the entire game to achieve 35-0. Edge Carroll.

Common 1: Carroll loses to HSE by one touchdown without their best offensive weapon. Even

@temptation would call touting Westfield's loss to Brownsburg 14-0 a moral victory. Wait, moral victories are only for teams up north. My take Westfield's loss to Brownsburg: Shows that they are a pretty darn team. The drubbing they took from Carmel wasn't a good look, but hell, the Greyhounds might do that to everyone this year. We'll find out at semi-state. Hard to compete with good coaching and 5000 students. 

???  Carmel hasn't made it out of a sectional the past 4 years.  Last semistate apperance was 2019, when they won it all.  Feels like you are just looking for excuses.

You're big into this transitive property stuff huh?  "Well if Team A beat Team B 2nd game of the season, then Team C beats Team A last week after losing to Team B 3 weeks ago, therefore Team C must still be the best...." 

 

[23andCounting]

1 hour ago, Bash Riprock said:

???  Carmel hasn't made it out of a sectional the past 4 years.  Last semistate apperance was 2019, when they won it all.  Feels like you are just looking for excuses.

You're big into this transitive property stuff huh?  "Well if Team A beat Team B 2nd game of the season, then Team C beats Team A last week after losing to Team B 3 weeks ago, therefore Team C must still be the best...." 

 

 

And Indiana stunk to high heaven before Cignetti took over. Coaching is 50% of it, resources are the other 50%. I'm starting to think that you think Ben Davis, Warren Central, and Carmel have 33 state titles between them simply because they are better programs than everyone else. Enrollment must not be a factor at all. 

I think transitive property is a good measuring stick, but certainly not the be all end all. You're right, sometimes transitive property is just a circle with no end. 

 

[Bash Riprock]

2 minutes ago, 23andCounting said:

 

And Indiana stunk to high heaven before Cignetti took over. Coaching is 50% of it, resources are the other 50%. I'm starting to think that you think Ben Davis, Warren Central, and Carmel have 33 state titles between them simply because they are better programs than everyone else. Enrollment must not be a factor at all. 

I think transitive property is a good measuring stick, but certainly not the be all end all. You're right, sometimes transitive property is just a circle with no end. 

 

Never said enrollment wasn't a factor.  I promise you programs like Westfield and Center Grove don't battle the Hounds defeated mentally before the game starts knowing their are close to 50% of Carmel's enrollment.  And those schools more than hold their own against the Greyhounds.  

While Wright is an outstanding coach, he is inherting some current talent...no doubt.  But another factor to success you never mention is the school's feeder program.  Carmel's has been down for a few years now....overall numbers are down as is their success that used to be taken for granted.  So Wright may be facing some future challenges...unless he can find some transfers.

[FastpacedO]

5 hours ago, 23andCounting said:

Crickets suddenly? Or coincidence? 

Pre-season of 2022, you said "I'm waiting."  Since that quote:

2023:

Snider 42, Warren Central 20

Carroll 18, Warren Central 14

Snider 33, Decatur Central 6

Crown Point 38, Westfield 31

2022: Carroll 20, Hamilton Southeastern 15

Five impressive wins from the North over by three different teams against Indy powers. What's the problem? You asked, they delivered. There's some good big boy football being played up here @temptation.

 

State Final's history since moving to Lucas Oil (6A and 5A because 6A wasn't created until 2013)

In 6A there have been 12 State Champions and 12 Runner-up. Indy Metro has had 20 of 24 teams in those 12 years and an Indy metro area team has won all 12.

In 5A since moving to Lucas Oil (2008) there have been 17 State Champions and 17 Runner Up. Indy Metro has had 24 of 34 teams in those 17 and an Indy metro area team has won 13 of 17.

If you go prior to Lucas Oil in 5A there were 23  State Champions and 23 Runner-ups only 21 of the 46 teams were Indy Metro. A lot better representation from non Indy Metro. Indy Metro teams won 15 of 23 State Championships during that period.

37 minutes ago, Bash Riprock said:

Never said enrollment wasn't a factor.  I promise you programs like Westfield and Center Grove don't battle the Hounds defeated mentally before the game starts knowing their are close to 50% of Carmel's enrollment.  And those schools more than hold their own against the Greyhounds.  

While Wright is an outstanding coach, he is inherting some current talent...no doubt.  But another factor to success you never mention is the school's feeder program.  Carmel's has been down for a few years now....overall numbers are down as is their success that used to be taken for granted.  So Wright may be facing some future challenges...unless he can find some transfers.

Or change the feeder program. I will say it will be more of a challenge this stint with Coach Wright as HC than it was his last stint, Coach Moriarity left the program in good shape when Coach Wright took over the first time. He does have some experience with that, Warren Central was pretty much mediocre when he took over that program. 

[Bash Riprock]

1 hour ago, FastpacedO said:

Or change the feeder program. I will say it will be more of a challenge this stint with Coach Wright as HC than it was his last stint, Coach Moriarity left the program in good shape when Coach Wright took over the first time. He does have some experience with that, Warren Central was pretty much mediocre when he took over that program. 

Oh he will certainly change it assuming he is there for the long haul.  Will absolutely make that a priority.

But not much he can do about what has already been lost during the past few years...other than develop from what he has and/or look outside.  

[BDGiant93]

On 10/6/2025 at 1:08 PM, Bash Riprock said:

???  Carmel hasn't made it out of a sectional the past 4 years.  

 

Carmel is different this year. They just are. They're good in all three phases and are beating good and bad/struggling teams badly. Carmel is a complete football team. Only loss was to nationally ranked Louisville Trinity.

Edited October 8, 2025 by BDGiant93

[Bash Riprock]

25 minutes ago, BDGiant93 said:

Carmel is different this year. They just are. They're good in all three phases and are beating good and bad/struggling teams badly. Carmel is a complete football team. Only loss was to nationally ranked Louisville Trinity.

Not saying they are not different this year.  They look very good.  But if success was based on numbers alone, they would have been a power the last 4-5 years and that hasn't been the case.  Same for some other large schools.

[BDGiant93]

45 minutes ago, Bash Riprock said:

Not saying they are not different this year.  They look very good.  But if success was based on numbers alone, they would have been a power the last 4-5 years and that hasn't been the case.  Same for some other large schools.

I'm telling you...eye test...Carmel is going to be a tough out for anyone, Brownsburg included.