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Breaking News: Warsaw and Warren Central sign a 2-year deal to play home and home in 2024 and 2025


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21 hours ago, temptation said:

There’s a point of diminishing returns wise guy.  In a school of 3800 (even with a free and reduced lunch rate of 65 percent) you can field a formidable football squad.

In fact, enrollment is the only thing keeping Warren and Ben Davis afloat right now.  Shrink their enrollment by 1000 and you have a souped up version of Arsenal Tech.

When you take a look at enrollment on its surface, it’s easy to fall into the trap.  Why is Ben Davis (the second largest school in the state) not dominating in state championships across the board?

Because, even though they boast 2000+ male students, when you figure in a free and reduced lunch rate of nearly 70 percent, that diminishes the pool of available student athletes considerably.

We just had a prominent football coach leave Warren for FRANKLIN CENTRAL.  

Wrap your mind around that.

You “privileged” Cathedral folks are out of touch with reality.

Your 600 male students (none of which are disadvantaged) is comparable to BD’s 2250 at a 70 percent disadvantaged clip.

Then explain to me Noblesville. Or Fishers. Or HSE. Suburban mega-schools with socio-economic demographics at the complete other end of the spectrum. What’s the causation for their meddling performances? Sure as hell ain’t what you’re preaching.

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6 minutes ago, Footballking16 said:

Then explain to me Noblesville. Or Fishers. Or HSE. Suburban mega-schools with socio-economic demographics at the complete other end of the spectrum. What’s the causation for their meddling performances? Sure as hell ain’t what you’re preaching.

This has been discussed many times. “Suburban mega-schools” success formula is simple, but it has 2 parts, both of which must exist at the same time. First, there have to be “advantages” that the size and demographics provide. But second, they must capitalize on their advantages, which means a committed administration to support them, coaching that is both skilled and can get kids to come out and play, and a supportive community, including a well run feeder program. Socioeconomic or other advantages by themselves do not translate to a successful program.

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1 hour ago, Footballking16 said:

Then explain to me Noblesville. Or Fishers. Or HSE. Suburban mega-schools with socio-economic demographics at the complete other end of the spectrum. What’s the causation for their meddling performances? Sure as hell ain’t what you’re preaching.

Little excuse for Noblesville but on the other hand, the giant in their sectional has nearly 2x the enrollment and a 9 percent free and reduced rate, roughly half that of Fishers/HSE and 3x less than Noblesville.

Throw in STATE FINALISTS Zionsville (4 percent) and Westfield (14 percent) in their own conference and you have an uphill climb.

You are playing checkers here dude.  

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21 minutes ago, Grover said:

And neither does enrollment.  

Noblesville and CG basically have similar demographics, enrollment and socioeconomics.  The difference is that Noblesville travels north and has a grind from day 1 in the sectional whereas CG gets a “sectional bye.”

No fault of CG but facts are facts.  Noblesville should be better and Eric Moore is the big difference maker here.  He could make Noblesville a threat in 2-3 years.

Lets not forget the Millers had an undefeated Homestead outfit on the ropes a couple of years ago.  They are not nearly as bad as their record indicates.

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3 hours ago, temptation said:

Agreed.  IMG is an athletic factory posing as a high school.  ZERO interest.

It is what it is.

Why is it ok for Duncanville, TX to host IMG but not ok for Indiana's finest high school football program to do the same?

Arent we always bitching and complaining on this site about Indianas lack of national respect when it comes to high school football?  Or how we are overshadowed by Ohio, Illinois and Michigan?

Here is a golden opportunity to put Indiana prep football on the map

National ESPN Saturday TV coverage

 

 

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14 minutes ago, temptation said:

Noblesville and CG basically have similar demographics, enrollment and socioeconomics.  The difference is that Noblesville travels north and has a grind from day 1 in the sectional whereas CG gets a “sectional bye.”

No fault of CG but facts are facts.  Noblesville should be better and Eric Moore is the big difference maker here.  He could make Noblesville a threat in 2-3 years.

Lets not forget the Millers had an undefeated Homestead outfit on the ropes a couple of years ago.  They are not nearly as bad as their record indicates.

You’re talking in circles. There’s nothing that ensures enrollment or socio-economic demographics guarantees or dictates success. Clearly as you’ve been given examples of each end of the spectrum.  

Culture, coaching, commitment however are common themes in successful programs, enrollment or socio-economic demographics be damned.

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2 minutes ago, Footballking16 said:

You’re talking in circles. There’s nothing that guarantees enrollment or socio-economic demographics guarantees or dictates success. Clearly as you’ve been given examples of each spectrum.  

Culture, coaching, commitment however are common themes in successful programs, enrollment or socio-economic demographics be damned.

Your posts are easier to understand when you use complete sentences.  Can you translate?

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3 minutes ago, Footballking16 said:

There’s nothing that ensures enrollment or socio-economic demographics guarantees or dictates success. 

Not a guarantee, but a major advantage. Can you agree to that?

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6 minutes ago, DT said:

It is what it is.

Why is it ok for Duncanville, TX to host IMG but not ok for Indiana's finest high school football program to do the same?

Arent we always bitching and complaining on this site about Indianas lack of national respect when it comes to high school football?  Or how we are overshadowed by Ohio, Illinois and Michigan?

Here is a golden opportunity to put Indiana prep football on the map

National ESPN Saturday TV coverage

 

 

I don't care what Duncanville does.

I don't bitch about it.

What actual benefit is there from being "on the map"?

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19 minutes ago, temptation said:

Noblesville and CG basically have similar demographics, enrollment and socioeconomics.  The difference is that Noblesville travels north and has a grind from day 1 in the sectional whereas CG gets a “sectional bye.”

No fault of CG but facts are facts.  Noblesville should be better and Eric Moore is the big difference maker here.  He could make Noblesville a threat in 2-3 years.

Lets not forget the Millers had an undefeated Homestead outfit on the ropes a couple of years ago.  They are not nearly as bad as their record indicates.

Incorrect

The diff between CG and Noblesville is much simpler.  CG is a football school.  Noblesville is not

Therein lies the difference.

It requires no further explanation because we all know exactly what this means.

Dave Sharpe has an opportunity to make Noblesville a "football school."  

Time will tell if he has the chops to get the job done.

 

 

 

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1 minute ago, Grover said:

I don't care what Duncanville does.

I don't bitch about it.

What actual benefit is there from being "on the map"?

When you get to the top of the mountain, youre' sphere of influence expands significantly.

What you decide to do with that influence determines your legacy.

Eric Moore has not reached the rarified air of legends Dick Dullaghan, Bud Wright, Don Howell, Jerry Brewer, Chris Geesman, Mo Moriarty.

But he is knocking on the door.

 

 

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13 minutes ago, DT said:

Incorrect

The diff between CG and Noblesville is much simpler.  CG is a football school.  Noblesville is not

Therein lies the difference.

It requires no further explanation because we all know exactly what this means.

Dave Sharpe has an opportunity to make Noblesville a "football school."  

Time will tell if he has the chops to get the job done.

 

 

 

CG was not a “football school” prior to Moore’s arrival.  If Noblesville hires the right guy and he is given time, they could potentially follow CG’s path.

The difference also becomes that Noblesville is middle of the pack in the HCC when it comes to socioeconomics.  CG has a clear advantage in that regard in the MIC.

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6 minutes ago, temptation said:

CG was not a “football school” prior to Moore’s arrival.  If Noblesville hires the right guy and he is given time, they could potentially follow CG’s path.

The difference also becomes that Noblesville is middle of the pack in the HCC when it comes to socioeconomics.  CG has a clear advantage in that regard in the MIC.

Center Grove would lose its socio-economic advantage if it joined the HCC and would still run roughshed in that conference despite being one of the smaller schools. Enrollment nor socio-economic factors dictate coaching, culture, commitment.

27 minutes ago, BTF said:

Not a guarantee, but a major advantage. Can you agree to that?

No.

North Central. Pike. Noblesville. HSE. Fishers. 
 

Neither means a damn thing.

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2 minutes ago, Footballking16 said:

Center Grove would lose its socio-economic advantage if it joined the HCC and would still run roughshed in that conference despite being one of the smaller schools. Enrollment nor socio-economic factors dictate coaching, culture, commitment.

No.

North Central. Pike. Noblesville. HSE. Fishers. 
 

Neither means a damn thing.

Seriously. Let's try this again. Enrollment and socioeconomic factors have NO impact on the success of a football program. None?

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18 minutes ago, temptation said:

CG was not a “football school” prior to Moore’s arrival.  If Noblesville hires the right guy and he is given time, they could potentially follow CG’s path.

The difference also becomes that Noblesville is middle of the pack in the HCC when it comes to socioeconomics.  CG has a clear advantage in that regard in the MIC.

Both are affluent school districts that want for nothing

Socio economics are a non issue

It all comes down to program development

CG is two decades ahead of NOB

NOB can't afford to turn another staff.  They will fall further behind. Sharpe and his team must make significant progress starting this coming season

Edited by DT
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1 minute ago, temptation said:

He’s lost.  

Fine. Let's try something different for him then.

Footballking16.................Program A and Program B both have  the SAME socioeconomic factors and equal strength coaching staffs. Program A has a school enrollment of 3600 and Program B has an enrollment of 1800. Is it likely that Program A will produce double the amount of D1 caliber players than Program A?

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9 minutes ago, BTF said:

Fine. Let's try something different for him then.

Footballking16.................Program A and Program B both have  the SAME socioeconomic factors and equal strength coaching staffs. Program A has a school enrollment of 3600 and Program B has an enrollment of 1800. Is it likely that Program A will produce double the amount of D1 caliber players than Program A?

I’ll take it one step further.

Program A and Program B have similar enrollments.

Program A has a 25 percent free and reduced lunch status and majority of two parent households.

Program B has a 70 percent free and reduced lunch status and majority of single parent households.

He just doesn’t understand that athletics is the farthest thing from families in Program B’s minds.  Many students have to care for siblings and sometimes support the family by working an afterschool job and a minute situation in which they could participate in athletics have no transportation to and from practice daily.

The difference between Center Grove and Arsenal Tech is more than just Eric Moore dude.  You can’t build the same culture you speak of at each place because the starting line is significantly different.  Kids at program B are trying to survive.

 

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2 minutes ago, temptation said:

I’ll take it one step further.

Program A and Program B have similar enrollments.

Program A has a 25 percent free and reduced lunch status and majority of two parent households.

Program B has a 70 percent free and reduced lunch status and majority of single parent households.

He just doesn’t understand that athletics is the farthest thing from families in Program B’s minds.  Many students have to care for siblings and sometimes support the family by working an afterschool job and in my new situation they could participate in athletics have no transportation to and from practice daily.

The difference between Center Grove and Arsenal Tech is more than just Eric Moore dude.  You can’t build the same culture you speak of at each place because the starting line is significantly different.

 

Although I completely agree with the affects socioeconomic factors, I can see why some struggle with the concept. But enrollment? That's grade school math. 

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4 minutes ago, BTF said:

Although I completely agree with the affects socioeconomic factors, I can see why some struggle with the concept. But enrollment? That's grade school math. 

How has enrollment worked for North Central (3rd), Pike (5th), Lake Central (8th), and Noblesville (10th) the last 20-25 years? HSE and Fishers have had some pretty meh to bad teams over the years despite having large enrollments and high socioeconomic demographics.

Culture, Coaching, Commitment. That is the common theme among programs with sustained success. Enrollment and socioeconomic factors are not defined either of those.

13 minutes ago, temptation said:

I’ll take it one step further.

Program A and Program B have similar enrollments.

Program A has a 25 percent free and reduced lunch status and majority of two parent households.

Program B has a 70 percent free and reduced lunch status and majority of single parent households.

He just doesn’t understand that athletics is the farthest thing from families in Program B’s minds.  Many students have to care for siblings and sometimes support the family by working an afterschool job and a minute situation in which they could participate in athletics have no transportation to and from practice daily.

The difference between Center Grove and Arsenal Tech is more than just Eric Moore dude.  You can’t build the same culture you speak of at each place because the starting line is significantly different.  Kids at program B are trying to survive.

 

Quit using Tech. What is the difference between Noblesville, Fishers, HSE vs Center Grove other than Center Grove having nearly 1000 less students?

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5 minutes ago, Footballking16 said:

How has enrollment worked for North Central (3rd), Pike (5th), Lake Central (8th), and Noblesville (10th) the last 20-25 years? HSE and Fishers have had some pretty meh to bad teams over the years despite having large enrollments and high socioeconomic demographics.

Culture, Coaching, Commitment. That is the common theme among programs with sustained success. Enrollment and socioeconomic factors are not defined either of those.

Quit using Tech. What is the difference between Noblesville, Fishers, HSE vs Center Grove other than Center Grove having nearly 1000 less students?

You’re dodging the socioeconomic portion of the argument that you continue to deny.

I am using Tech because they are on the opposite end of the spectrum when it comes to the socioeconomic argument.

If it’s not a factor than why can’t Tech seem to build the “culture” you speak of?

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4 minutes ago, temptation said:

You’re dodging the socioeconomic portion of the argument that you continue to deny.

I am using Tech because they are on the opposite end of the spectrum when it comes to the socioeconomic argument.

If it’s not a factor than why can’t Tech seem to build the “culture” you speak of?

I’ve provided examples in Noblesville, HSE, Fishers as to why your socioeconomic argument completely falls apart. 

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10 minutes ago, Footballking16 said:

How has enrollment worked for North Central (3rd), Pike (5th), Lake Central (8th), and Noblesville (10th) the last 20-25 years? HSE and Fishers have had some pretty meh to bad teams over the years despite having large enrollments and high socioeconomic demographics.

Culture, Coaching, Commitment. That is the common theme among programs with sustained success. Enrollment and socioeconomic factors are not defined either of those.

Programs with Top 10 enrollments have won 28 of 36 championship in the states largest class. Actually, it's more like Top 5, since that's where Ben Davis was enrollment wise when they were winning their trophies. 

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