NIL and High School Athletics

[DumfriesYMCA]

At work and talking sports.  Coworker mentions that he would have probably tried harder in high school if NILs were a thing.

 

which brings me to the question/discussion I want to mention.

 

Now that it’s a lot easier to get paid for athletics in college, with many colleges having a trust fund to pay everyone annually, is the level of competition going to improve?

 

so often I see all the negatives about NIL, but I think there is some good out of it in this form.  A lot of high schoolers know that the odds of going pro are very slim and some probably don’t try as hard or give up the sport to focus on academics.  Which focusing on academics is never a bad thing….but now it’s entirely possible with just hard work that a kid may get a scholarship for a sport and be able to make an income of $20,000+ while still in college….and that’s an amazing opportunity for kids who think they can’t be a pro athlete…get a free education and leave college with money in the bank or able to start a business/investment.

 

 

[MarshallCounty]

No. Because the NIL deals that make headlines are limited. 

[Footballking16]

16 minutes ago, DumfriesYMCA said:

At work and talking sports.  Coworker mentions that he would have probably tried harder in high school if NILs were a thing.

 

which brings me to the question/discussion I want to mention.

 

Now that it’s a lot easier to get paid for athletics in college, with many colleges having a trust fund to pay everyone annually, is the level of competition going to improve?

 

so often I see all the negatives about NIL, but I think there is some good out of it in this form.  A lot of high schoolers know that the odds of going pro are very slim and some probably don’t try as hard or give up the sport to focus on academics.  Which focusing on academics is never a bad thing….but now it’s entirely possible with just hard work that a kid may get a scholarship for a sport and be able to make an income of $20,000+ while still in college….and that’s an amazing opportunity for kids who think they can’t be a pro athlete…get a free education and leave college with money in the bank or able to start a business/investment.

 

 

A 16 or 17 year old kid being able to profit $20k+ for being good at football is just bonkers to me, although that says more about the person willing to shell out $20k than the kid itself. I really don't see any real world profit an individual can make off a high school kid playing football, and NIL at the high school level in my opinion will simply just amount to high dollar boosters leveraging NIL deals as down payments for future college commitments. It's just too much of a slippery slope in my opinion.

I would support some kind of collective or fund that would allow a high school student to allocate money towards future college tuition, but just throwing thousands and sometimes millions of dollars (see the CA QB with a 7 figure NIL deal to attend TN) just seems like a terrible principle. 

[DumfriesYMCA]

7 minutes ago, Footballking16 said:

A 16 or 17 year old kid being able to profit $20k+ for being good at football is just bonkers to me, although that says more about the person willing to shell out $20k than the kid itself. I really don't see any real world profit an individual can make off a high school kid playing football, and NIL at the high school level in my opinion will simply just amount to high dollar boosters leveraging NIL deals as down payments for future college commitments. It's just too much of a slippery slope in my opinion.

I would support some kind of collective or fund that would allow a high school student to allocate money towards future college tuition, but just throwing thousands and sometimes millions of dollars (see the CA QB with a 7 figure NIL deal to attend TN) just seems like a terrible principle. 

The collectives is the big thing because I agree I don’t see it as that profitable for advertising and such…but colleges able to set up collectives so that everyone on the team is paid and not just limited player is the most important thing.

 

with collectives under NIL you don’t have to be a 5star player…you don’t even have to be a 4star player

 

you essentially just have to be good enough to make a team roster.  It’s definitely something that’s more in reach than many probably realize…and like I said…it would be an incredible leg up in life to leave college with say 50k in  the bank and an education…..and you wouldn’t even need to be a starting player on the team

 

its definitely something that could motivate a lot of kids because who knows how many have just seen sports as a waste of time because it doesn’t help them progress in their life goals

[Footballking16]

2 minutes ago, DumfriesYMCA said:

The collectives is the big thing because I agree I don’t see it as that profitable for advertising and such…but colleges able to set up collectives so that everyone on the team is paid and not just limited player is the most important thing.

 

with collectives under NIL you don’t have to be a 5star player…you don’t even have to be a 4star player

 

you essentially just have to be good enough to make a team roster.  It’s definitely something that’s more in reach than many probably realize…and like I said…it would be an incredible leg up in life to leave college with say 50k in  the bank and an education…..and you wouldn’t even need to be a starting player on the team

 

its definitely something that could motivate a lot of kids because who knows how many have just seen sports as a waste of time because it doesn’t help them progress in their life goals

College is different than high school. There are college players who actually are marketable and actually worth more than their real scholarship value. Some, but not a lot.

As I've read it, collectives don't necessarily benefit every player, rather it's just a way of someone or a group of people associated with a university pooling together collections of money into one and then allocating it out to whomever and however they want. 

I agree it would be nice to graduate college with $50k in the bank, but as a scholarship athlete, you're already well ahead of the curve graduating with zero debt or future loans to pay off. For the majority of college athletes, most of which aren't worth more than their real scholarship value in an open market, have it as good as anyone.

But in terms of NIL at the high school level, I prefer it just stays away. It's the last leg of pure amateur athletics. 

[Muda69]

Forget Friday Night Lights: High School Stars Seek a Better Deal: https://www.nytimes.com/2021/08/13/sports/ncaa-high-school-sports-endorsements.html

Quote

Quarterback Quinn Ewers of Southlake, Texas, was expected to lead his city’s storied high school team this fall in its quest for another state championship as the nation’s top football prospect.

Instead, on Aug. 2, Ewers announced that he would graduate early, skip his senior season at Carroll Senior High School and enroll at Ohio State to pursue the starting quarterback job there and potentially hundreds of thousands of dollars in endorsement deals that N.C.A.A. athletes are now free to negotiate.

Ewers, 18, said on Twitter that he was motivated, in part, by frustration over a new Texas law that prevents high school athletes from signing similar agreements.

Another high school athlete, Mikey Williams, a 17-year-old basketball star in North Carolina with more than three million followers on Instagram, signed in July with a management and marketing company to secure endorsement deals. He plans to play this season for an independent team that is not bound by rules governing high school sports in North Carolina. Excel Sports Management, which represents Williams, told ESPN that it expects the business arrangement will earn millions of dollars for the teenager, who is not eligible for the N.B.A. draft until 2024.

 

 

Just as colleges have begun wrestling with these issues in recent weeks, so have high schools, where some top players have social media numbers as impressive as their athletic statistics.

Some worry that high school sports, and the unique pride and identity they provide to places like Southlake, will not be the same as big money influences top athletes.

“There’s almost a romance about traditional high school sports,” said Karissa Niehoff, the executive director of the National Federation of State High School Associations. She fears that endorsement deals for prep athletes means “the last bastion of amateurism will be gone.”

But, in truth, many have been questioning the strictures of amateurism for decades. And the hoary notion of what high school sports should be — homegrown stars playing before bright lights, cheerleaders and marching bands for nothing more than a love of school and community — is evolving further as teenage athletes are also being recruited as pitchmen.

....

The United States is one of the few countries where youth athletics are mostly organized by schools instead of sports clubs. Some administrators, coaches and officials have expressed concerns that star athletes like Ewers and Williams could be riding the crest of a wave that might swamp the customs and norms of school-sponsored sports.

 

Joe Martin, the executive director of the Texas High School Coaches Association, said that several problems could develop if some players had endorsement contracts: Tension and jealousy in the locker room that undermine team spirit and cohesiveness. Escalated abuse of transfer rules as powerhouse high schools recruit players on the promise that they can better build their brands with enhanced visibility. Awkward situations where some high school players make more money than their coaches.

“The Ewers kid at Southlake is making more than the whole coaching staff, period; think about that,” Martin said. “That’s something we’ve never had to address before as coaches.”

...

Recruiting is commonplace, legally and furtively, in high school football and basketball. IMG Academy in Florida draws athletes from around the country and internationally. Games are regularly shown on national television and camps and tournaments for elite players are sponsored by shoe companies. Top players receive college scholarship offers as early as eighth grade.

...

Ewers would have preferred to remain at Carroll if he had been able to benefit from economic opportunities there, he and his parents told Pete Thamel of Yahoo Sports, who first reported the quarterback’s intention to leave for Ohio State.

“We don’t need the money,” Curtis Ewers, Quinn’s father and an oil and gas executive, told Yahoo Sports. “It’s just the principle of it.”

Quinn Ewers and his family did not respond to requests from The Times for comment. On Monday, before leaving for Ohio State, he announced his first endorsement deal, with a Dallas-based beverage company called Holy Kombucha. It is aligned with a school-based suicide prevention program called Hope Squad.

 

[Irishman]

10 minutes ago, Muda69 said:

Forget Friday Night Lights: High School Stars Seek a Better Deal: https://www.nytimes.com/2021/08/13/sports/ncaa-high-school-sports-endorsements.html

 

This was a year ago. And Ewers left Ohio State at the end of last school year and will play for Texas.....this year......or will be on the roster at least. 

[Justasportsfan]

Keep it simple n pay them under the table like we did b4...all this red tape..everyone gets a share when it used to just be the blue chippers..participation trophy has met participation money..

[DumfriesYMCA]

7 hours ago, Justasportsfan said:

Keep it simple n pay them under the table like we did b4...all this red tape..everyone gets a share when it used to just be the blue chippers..participation trophy has met participation money..

I think it’s very short sighted to suggest anyone playing sports collegiately is getting a participation trophy.

 

speaking from personal experience, even as a D3 lacrosse player who got 0 kickbacks for college costs….the amount of work everyone has to put in is a lot….i mean I played at most 5 minutes a game if that and still had to put in all the work everyone else did. 
 

At any level of college but especially say D1 football….there is no just participating…you are on that team and putting in incredible hours of work trying to improve and help the team in any way you can….it really doesn’t matter if you are a blue chip prospect or not…if you want to be on any sports team at the collegiate level you are working your butt off day in and day out 

[Justasportsfan]

32 minutes ago, DumfriesYMCA said:

I think it’s very short sighted to suggest anyone playing sports collegiately is getting a participation trophy.

 

speaking from personal experience, even as a D3 lacrosse player who got 0 kickbacks for college costs….the amount of work everyone has to put in is a lot….i mean I played at most 5 minutes a game if that and still had to put in all the work everyone else did. 
 

At any level of college but especially say D1 football….there is no just participating…you are on that team and putting in incredible hours of work trying to improve and help the team in any way you can….it really doesn’t matter if you are a blue chip prospect or not…if you want to be on any sports team at the collegiate level you are working your butt off day in and day out 

The 4 star kid who starts should get the same amount as the 3rd stringer? Whats gonna stop a parent from investing in a recruiting firm that will rate their kid higher? Yes I fully understand the plight of a d1 athlete..as a d3 player would u suggest they get kickback as well? If so how much? Who would come up with the "reasonable" amount considering the talent? Don't mind paying the kids..just a lot of red tape

[DumfriesYMCA]

25 minutes ago, Justasportsfan said:

The 4 star kid who starts should get the same amount as the 3rd stringer? Whats gonna stop a parent from investing in a recruiting firm that will rate their kid higher? Yes I fully understand the plight of a d1 athlete..as a d3 player would u suggest they get kickback as well? If so how much? Who would come up with the "reasonable" amount considering the talent? Don't mind paying the kids..just a lot of red tape

I’m not a fan of red taping things and having all these rules….but I think I’m this case it’s more to protect the athletes than the college.

 

by giving a clear path the kids don’t have to hide the bag anymore or be hush about any money their family has.  In some ways this insulates the athletes while they more/less get into the business world. 
 

as for athletes and what they get paid….I’m a free market kind of guy….if someone is willing to pay it…the kid earned it.  If the 4th string punter gets crazy advertising deals just because he has a funny name…so be it lol

 

the market moves how the market wants 
 

But that’s separate from some of the collectives where the colleges/donors are setting up essentially a minimum salary. Which I want to bring back up to get back on topic

 

Do we think that HS athletics may see an increase in numbers/increase in competitiveness as we are start to see a lower threshold for making money playing a sport?  
 

For me personally I probably would have tried different sports/worked harder if I had these same opportunities. Not that the outcome would have changed much lol

Edited September 1, 2022 by DumfriesYMCA

[Justasportsfan]

6 minutes ago, DumfriesYMCA said:

 

Do we think that HS athletics may see an increase in numbers/increase in competitiveness as we are start to see a lower threshold for making money playing a sport?  
 

For me personally I probably would have tried different sports/worked harder if I had these same opportunities. Not that the outcome would have changed much lol

Valid points..I think most kids would work harder if the amount was set before them.