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Funny fact: The Jets traded All Pro DT Quinnen Williams to Dallas before the season for a boatload of picks & players. Williams, at 6’ 3” and 303 lbs. had more interceptions this year than the entire Jets team.

Thanks for the correction. But yeah, have a tournament for the Division 1 programs who aren't Power Four. Ball State for example. A kid that goes there has NO chance at any kind of a national title. But Saint Francis (Fort Wayne) does because there is a tournament that caters to teams in their weight class. MAC schools are just punching bags for Power 4 programs and something needs to be done.

What’s that in skunk years?

Since this thread has gone so far off the rails, might as well share that today we should all raise a glass in celebration of Pepe' Le Pew's 81st birthday!

Hang on. Fighting Irish Lacrosse season starts in about 5 weeks.

Due to Illinois changing their Season start date, Gibson Southern will no longer play Rochester week 2 at the United Fidelity Bowl. Instead, the Titans will play St. Pius X out of Festus Mo. They were a state finalist in Mo in 2025.

This is going to be a very long post. The question has been debated here, and elsewhere, and the issues are as complex as the fans are passionate. While I’ll try to keep this more in the realm of fact, as opposed to opinion, all should understand from the outset I am not unbiased when it comes to Notre Dame. My credentials as a Notre Dame supporter are probably as good as those of anyone likely to read this. I love Notre Dame. My 4 years there were among the best of my life. My ND degree set me up for success in life, and it is one of my proudest accomplishments. Moreover, I wore the blue and gold in intercollegiate athletic competition, and always took my responsibility as a representative of Our Lady’s University very, very seriously. All that being said, the most valuable skill I learned at ND was how to think critically. So, I have attempted to apply those critical thinking skills to this issue in as unbiased an analysis as I can manage. So, here goes. How did Notre Dame develop its tradition of independence in football? To decide whether conference affiliation is in the best interests of the program, you first need to understand how the policy of independence came about. ND’s status as an independent was originally adopted in the 1920s, when the Irish first rose to national prominence. In 1924, Knute Rockne put the team on a train and headed west to California. The only bowl game played that year was the Rose Bowl, and the Four Horsemen rode roughshod over Stanford, as the Irish capped their first national championship season. The idea of taking a team across country to play a game was new, and it captured the interest of the fans. The tradition of playing USC was born the following season. Notre was actually known as the “Ramblers” in those days, because of their willingness to travel to find opponents. Rock created the national brand that was Notre Dame football out of necessity. Notre Dame had no built-in local base of fans and recruits like the big state schools. Because it was a faith-based institution, its pool of potential recruits was necessarily limited, first by religion, and ultimately by academic demands that exceeded those of most other football-playing schools. Similarly, its relatively small size was a handicap in building a fan base without many thousands of alumni to rely on. For example, Notre Dame has about 150,000 living alumni. Ohio State has over 4 times that number. So, they needed to appeal to a national audience of fans and potential recruits. Catholicism was the only natural attractant, and Catholics provided the national fan and recruiting base for ND in the early years. At the same time, Rock was establishing an identity for the team on the gridiron. Because he wanted to appeal to a national fan base, and to recruit nationally, ND felt it could not be affiliated with a conference, because all conferences were regional at that time. The Irish adopted a scheduling philosophy that required them to show the flag all over the country, something that just wasn’t done if you were a conference member. Since ND was not affiliated with a conference, the only goal of this national program was, logically, a national championship. That was the reason why, after that Rose Bowl win against Stanford, the Irish adopted a policy of not playing in bowl games. In those days, the final polls declaring a national champion came out at the end of the regular season. Since the bowls had no impact on a national championship, and they were typically played during final exams, ND did not play in another bowl game until 1969. This policy served them well, as they rose to national prominence, winning 7 national championships between 1925 and 1969. The AP changed its polling process in 1968 to issue its final poll after the bowls were completed. Since ND’s program goal was a natty, they changed their bowl participation philosophy at that time, and began the new era of ND football with a Cotton Bowl appearance against Texas on Jan. 1, 1970. They changed their strategy to keep it well-aligned with the goal of winning national championships. Competing for a national championship, reinforcing the national brand in terms of both fan base and recruiting, and adhering to high academic standards, remain the goals of the program. Are the reasons initially justifying independent status still in existence? Understanding how and why Notre Dame’s policy of football independence originated is key to the issue of whether that philosophy should change or not. Is it possible to maintain a national fan base and a national recruiting presence, and compete for a national championship, all while becoming affiliated with a conference? The “national brand” limitations once imposed by conference affiliation have been significantly reduced due to a number of factors, principally the rise of the internet, social media, and streaming services, and the expansion of existing conferences outside their traditional regional envelopes. As late as 1992, the reach of the Big 10, for example, stretched only from Columbus to Iowa City, not even 550 mi. Today the Big 10 goes from coast to coast and is physically present from sea to shining sea. Today a Big 10 team might play in the New York, Chicago, Los Angeles and Seattle markets in a single season. ACC teams go all the way to Texas and California.The SEC includes Oklahoma & Texas. Regional conferences are rapidly becoming a thing of the past. The world has gotten a lot smaller. The college football world is no exception. It is now a lot easier to recruit in Texas, Florida, California, or anywhere else without having an actual physical presence close by. NIL and the transfer portal have revolutionized recruiting, and the old methods don’t work well any more. Conference affiliation, as recent events have revealed, is no barrier to competing for a national championship. In fact, independent status has likely become more of an obstacle, given scheduling issues. The P4 conferences have all gone to 9 game in-conference schedules. This has significantly reduced ND’s scheduling opportunities, outside of the first couple of weeks of the season traditionally reserved for non-conference games. With SOS and SOR becoming more important with the advent of a playoff system, the ability to generate a quality schedule has become a problem for ND. [Please don’t bring up Navy. That’s been addressed elsewhere. Getting Navy off the schedule is a non-starter. End of discussion.] And now, in addition to logistics issues, there is the prospect of a scheduling “backlash” against ND. It’s unclear how real that threat is, as ND is a significant draw, putting butts in the seats and eyeballs on the screen. Of course, conference affiliation does not guarantee a high quality schedule every season. Just look at the 2025 ACC for proof of that. But it does remove the perception that ND manages its schedule in a way conference affiliated teams cannot, hence the threatened “backlash.” Would the Irish have fared differently with the CFP Committee if their schedule contained Rutgers, Maryland, UCLA , and Michigan State, as opposed to Syracuse, Stanford, Arkansas and NC State? No one knows, but at least with a conference affiliation, the argument that ND plays a manufactured schedule when no one else can is eliminated, together with the negative connotations that go along with it. So, there are some sound reasons why an independent schedule no longer serves the goals of the program as it once did. But no discussion of program goals and philosophies is complete without addressing the elephant in the room: $$$. What would be the economic effect of conference affiliation? We cannot pretend that economic issues do not enter into the discussion. Notre Dame keeps significantly more revenue than many conference members, allowing them to retain substantial funds from CFP appearances and other sources. This financial strength allows for greater investment in both athletic programs and broader university goals. Unlike many schools, ND’s football revenue does not all stay with the program, or even with the Athletic Department, although it does fund football operations and non-revenue sports. The NBC deal has resulted in over $100 million in financial aid to non student athletes over the years. This is a vital part of the University’s overall goals. Any significant reduction in revenue resulting from conference affiliation is a non-starter. How would a conference affiliation affect revenue? Would conference affiliation result in a significant reduction in football revenue? Currently, ND’s contract with NBC/Peacock which runs through the 2029 season generates about $50 million/yr. The broadcast rights payouts to conference affiliated programs are, in some cases significantly more, than that. Under the current deal, B1G schools receive about $63 million. The Big 12 is only about $40 million; the ACC about $45 million. The SEC is about $52 million last year, but just signed a new deal which will put that figure somewhere in the $60+ million range starting next season. ESPN/ABC have locked up all of college football except the B1G and Notre Dame. Fox is heavily invested in the B1G. NBC owns Notre Dame. I don’t view any of this as a significant barrier to conference affiliation. ND’s Athletic Director, Pete Bevacqua, was the Chairman and President of NBC Sports as recently as 2023. If ND wanted to join a conference, I’m confident they could work out a deal with NBC. The big (potential) money difference is playoff compensation. For their run to the national championship game in 2024, ND received a $20 million payout, which they didn’t have to share with anyone. The conferences all have distribution formulas which provide that all members share in the payouts to conference teams in the CFP, most according to a formula which provides a bigger share to the teams actually making the playoffs. B1G schools received about $2.5 million each from the playoff pools last year. Of course, ND received $0 in 2025. Thus, conference affiliation provides greater certainty of revenue, while independent status provides a chance for a bigger payday. I would think that if ND is considering a conference affiliation, they would gravitate towards conferences that allow actual playoff teams to keep a larger portion of the revenue generated, with smaller shares going to non-playoff teams. In summary, there does not appear to be any financial impediment to conference affiliation. Rather, it is likely to present an opportunity to increase broadcast rights revenue. Have additional reasons developed, pro or con, regarding independent status? The world has changed dramatically from the days when Notre Dame’s policy of independence, driven by recruiting and fan base considerations, was a necessity. The college football of today would be unrecognizable to a fan in the 1970s. The internet, the rise of social media, and the increase in $$ dictate changes in both strategies and policies. Add to that the pressures of NIL, the portal, and a playoff format. There have been sufficient changes in the college football landscape to mandate a fresh look at whether the now century old policy of independence continues to be the best way to achieve the program’s goals. The rise of the “super conferences” has resulted in unprecedented difficulties in building a quality independent schedule. This results in two consequences, both negative: 1. A “weak” schedule that is perceived to be under ND’s control is seen as an unfair advantage, while a similar schedule strength is not held against a conference-affiliated team, since they don’t have the same kind of “freedom” of scheduling. 2. Playing a weaker schedule is not necessarily the best preparation for a playoff run. “Iron sharpens iron.” Playing a more competitive schedule, over time, will result in a better product on the field. In short, college football has changed drastically since Notre Dame developed its policy of independence in football. Those changes significantly mitigate, and in some cases eliminate, the drivers of that policy. All that remains, then, is to see how modern conference affiliation squares with the historical goals of the program. How does potential conference affiliation promote the historical goals of Notre Dame football? Competing for a national championship, reinforcing the national brand in terms of both fan base and recruiting, and adhering to high academic standards, remain the goals of the program. To this we can add “generating sufficient revenue to continue to fund the program, support non-revenue sports, and contribute significantly to the University’s general fund.” How does conference affiliation promote these goals? Competing for a national championship. What did we learn from the playoff snub debacle of 2025? We learned that you can improve your CFP ranking by playing in a conference championship game, even if you get stoned. We learned that there are a lot of people (committee members?) who hold Notre Dame’s independent status against them. The notorious MOU which supposedly assures ND of a playoff position if it finishes in the top 12 provides little comfort when we see what the committee did this year by moving Alabama ahead of ND. To be honest, if the CFP goes to 16 teams, ND should be in every year, especially if they do away with or limit automatic qualifiers. But we have seen very small distinctions have very large consequences. And if the goal is a national championship, the strategy should be to follow the path with the fewest obstacles to getting there, without compromising other program values. So, removing negative perceptions about scheduling, and striving for superior seeding and byes should be goals as well. Resolving the scheduling issues as suggested above provides not the only, but the clearest, path to a national championship. Reinforcing the national brand. Notre Dame’s national brand is already well-established. Arguably, it is the only program that can legitimately claim “national” status. The geographic and numerical expansion of the major conferences, and the availability of multiple broadcast platforms, means that it is now quite feasible to both belong to a conference and play a quality schedule that is national in scope, thus continuing to reinforce the brand. Adhering to high academic standards. ND’s academic standards are a strictly internal matter. Conference affiliation is irrelevant to this goal. ND’s GPA and academic progress benchmarks already meet or exceed those of any conference, as evidenced by the Irish’s perennial top national ranking in Graduation Success Rate. Generating sufficient revenue. As shown above, joining either the SEC or the B1G will likely result in an increase in broadcast rights revenue on the order of 20-25% in the short term, and more than that down the road. While there may be some decrease in post-season compensation, there’s a floor that prevents conference members from being shut out of playoff $$, as the Irish were this year. Consistent revenue streams become increasingly important in the NIL/portal world. Conclusion: The Time is Right for Notre Dame to Join a Conference. Joining a conference — provided it’s the right conference — is consistent with the long standing goals of the program. Notre Dame’s policy of independence was the right thing to do at the time it was adopted. In 1968, when the process for determining national champs changed, ND changed their philosophy on bowl game participation to realign it with their goal of a national championship. Since then, college football has changed dramatically in a number of ways. It’s time to, once again, change policy to realign it with the goal of winning a national championship. Which conference is right for Notre Dame? That’s probably the easiest question of all to answer. It’s the B1G by a landslide. For those who still think it’s important, the geographic fit is perfect. On the field, the B1G is ascending. Its revenue distribution is a significant upgrade on ND’s current broadcast deal. It’s in every major market. A 9 game conference schedule plus Navy still gives ND the opportunity to find a couple of games in the Deep South and/or Southwest. Historical rivalries like Michigan and USC will be preserved, and new ones will develop, such as Ohio State and, dare I say it, Indiana. It’s a no-brainer. So, that’s my take on the issue. Surprised?

The whining was justified. Not so sure your Hoosiers would have beaten them last weekend.

This one will be simple: Agent to John, where you want to go, John, Team (favorite choice) Great , hired in 2 days Kevin your turn

I'm just a fan, what I think doesn't matter. I love Notre Dame and what the University stand for. I trust the administrators to make the right decision. It's my hope that the Irish remain independent. I've always had a soft spot for the outliers, and in this case, it's my favorite team. So yeah, I kind of enjoy "us against the world" and all the bitching toward us that comes with it.

Way to straddle the fence 23. The best move for ND is to join the Big 10. SOS will be strong, they can still schedule Navy, and if they can go 10-2 or better, guaranteed they will be in the CFP. Win win all the way around

Good read @Bobref. Thanks for that. I'm a traditionalist, so as long as Notre Dame opts to keep their independence, I stand by them 100%. If they decide to join a conference, I trust that the administrators did their due diligence, therefore I'd stand by their decision in doing so.

I am going to guess all sides are ok with this. There comes a point in time where it's time to go a different direction. I don't think he will be unemployed long. Look what a change of setting did for Andy Reid.

Nope, you're off by 2 years.

67 Sorry, I will see myself out the door but hey Elementary school.

nope just wondering the genesis of what dictates what some to do and what some not to do especially a random 2 week one, just interesting/curious

Take it up with @Irishman However, still, didn't answer why the initial response was not to correct that spelling error, but waited 2 weeks to do it and what makes you decide who and what to correct, see how it can be confusing, so that is why I asked if I did it correctly

Both, put primarily the taxpayer funded boondoggle. Indiana taxpayers will be paying for Lucas Oil until it is torn down, and probably afterwards. Just like the Hoosier Dome: https://www.sportico.com/business/finance/2021/how-taxpayers-sustain-indianapolis-stadium-1234626373/ FTA:

He got beat out for the starting position. So he decided to take his ball and leave.

Us drunks have a code we live by

Just asking if I did it correctly that is all Why be so selective ? You're either the all in or all out guy on forum spelling? What make you determine what and who to correct in this realm vs others? That's why I asked if I corrected 23 correctly to your standards because I noticed after random 2 weeks, and after you had already responded (hidden) you decided to make a post correcting the spelling of Kirschner ...... But didn't on the initial response..... but then 2 weeks later, just found it interesting, so when I saw an opportunity for one of our members to be corrected as it's not Twitter no more, but X, I was seeking your approval If I did that correctly. I am not "butthurt:" which for me personally is such a garbage phrase, but I also do not use R word in my life either amongst other words but hey I digress ........... Hope that unconfused you sir SO, @23andCounting I apologize if I missed it, however, do you have a spot in your mind where you think ND should be placed when all said and done?

This is crazy.....Minchey commits to Nebraska, shown a healthy check from Kentucky and is expected to commit there now.

Just sent it to the cleaners today … with the 52 yr. old patch still intact.

Or dare I state the obvious…..the NFL got the results they paid for?

Remember the devices your wore around your neck to make your brain swell?