US31

1 hour ago, Dave007 said:

That would be interesting data to find...

Agreed, if anyone can find that...it would be interesting to look at.

I agree that part of this is the "decline of South Bend" (as well as other parts of Northern Indiana).  But decline may not be the best term, it may be more of a lack of growth compared to suburban Indy.  Enrollment data show's you some of the effects.  In the 90's and early 00's Penn's enrollment was MUCH larger compared to the majority of Indy metro schools.  Save a few big MIC schools.  In the 90's, HSE was a single 3A school!! Penn is now very "middle of the pack" in size compared to MIC and HCC...

1. Carmel High School 5286
2. Ben Davis High School 4499
3. Warren Central 3821
4. North Central 3727
5. Fishers 3509
6. Penn 3338
7. Lake Central 3316
8. Pike 3295
9. HSE 3273
10. Avon 3095
11. Noblesville 3001
12. 6 schools over 2500

These are the currently used enrollment numbers by IHSAA...not necessarily the "actual" enrollments of those schools.  I'd love to see mid 90's enrollment numbers but don't have the time to look.  Penn doesn't have a size advantage in 6A.  Further, the metro schools that have caught up in size, now have a much better "competition advantage" than Penn does in the NIC.  MIC and HCC schools play "Penn's" every week.  How often does Penn play near peer competition?  Hat's off to Coach Y and Penn trying to fill their schedule with stiffer competition such as Cathedral.  Its very hard for a large school outside Indy Metro to find the quality of competition that the larger Indy Metro schools enjoy on a regular basis.  I'd also argue there is a larger "pool" of quality coaches in the Indy Metro area.  Staff's change and get shaken up regularly.  A quality coach can easily begin coaching at other programs without changing their address or where their own kids go to school.  This is much different in other parts of the state, where changing coaching jobs/filling coaching jobs may require someone moving the whole family.

It was common in Indiana 10 years ago (give or take), for teams to use "alternate" jerseys.  Either the rules changed or schools were called out with an "emphasis" and I have not seen it anywhere recently.

I would argue that I did not see any change in grounding or man downfield calls.  As a defensive guy, I appreciate the effort...but am not holding my breath.

Just curious what tweeks, changes the actual officials think would improve IHSAA football?  This can be rule changes, enforcement changes, etc....really, anything that has to do with your job description between the start and end of the game?

11 hours ago, Justasportsfan said:

Possibly 10am? More games more money..they're young n won't need caffeine yet!

Currently the games are blocked out at 3.5 hour intervals (4 hour intervals this year) So it has been Noon/330pm/7pm.  So using 2019 kickoff times, you'd have to add either an 830am or a 1030pm game.  OR you bump everything back an hour and have a 930am/1pm/430pm/8pm schedule.  The 930am kickoff teams are gonna have to travel the night before.  If they are Indy metro, you are still getting kids up VERY early to meet at school, do your check/meeting, bus to LOS and be ready for a 930am kick.  And anyone who's watched a lot of State games knows that evening game usually doesn't kick off on time.

I'm not saying its impossible....just harder to do 4 games in one day.  Especially if you are the early game.

If you had two classes with Bye's....which should be doable if you had an 8 class system.  Then playing two games the weekend before could be an option.  Those classes would be a "week" ahead of the other classes (e.g. they would be playing "regional" games when the classes with more schools would be playing "sectionals")

Its all up to whether or not the IHSAA & LOS would want to do this.  And again, I'm not sold on the need for it.....but if you wanted to go beyond 6 classes, you'd need to figure this out.

I'm not totally against "more" classes....but it will never happen unless you can figure out a way to realistically have more than 6 State Championship games at LOS on Thanksgiving Weekend....7AM game???  11pm Game??  Play on Thursday (National Holiday)??? Sunday (Colts will often play)??.

Otherwise you will need to "stagger" your tournament....and have some games the weekend before. 

Or not have games at LOS....which will be the least likely option.

I don't think the IHSAA is keen to any of the above.

14 hours ago, LaSalle Lions 1976 said:

Does anyone think that the NIC is the best fit for Elkhart and Penn now?

Maybe all the 6a DAC along with Elkhart, Penn, and Warsaw make a new conference.

Then Marian, St. Joe, and Jimtown join the NLC.  Glenn and New Prairie can go with their old NSC teams.

Could be the best for everyone

This....people that aren't familiar with North Central Indiana don't realize what a Frankenstein's monster the NIC has become.  Penn and Elkhart really don't "fit" anymore.  I think several members of the current NIC would welcome a move by P & E to the DAC. 

Here...I'll start the hashtag #PandE2DAC

2 hours ago, DT said:

Really?

This isnt the NFL.  If playing one Saturday during the regular season destroys your game prep for the following week, perhaps you are in over your head already

Give me a break

Interesting how Catholic school supporters and alumni seem to have all the answers to public school challenges.  

 While I don't know the DAC scheduling practices....A lot of schools/conferences play their JV and/or Freshman games on Saturdays.  What happens to them? 

The goal of high school football scheduling isn't to create a great spectator sport (its a nice by product of good football and great community support). I just don't see how this advances the issue you are trying to champion...getting a big region school to LOS. Its a side topic to an interesting conversation about making the DAC football more on par with MIC/HCC/SAC etc.

Respectfully....I've been fortunate to coach in a very good conference on some very successful teams....being over our heads is most assuredly not the issue.  The issue is what allows our entire program to most successful from week to week, and playing our best football in October and November.  I suspect it would be VERY rare to find big school coaching staff who would WANT to play a full afternoon game on a Saturday for a regular season opponent.

12 hours ago, DT said:

Nuetral Site Matchups

Saturdays would be used intermittently during the season to hold Nuetral site games at Ames Field In Michigan City

Penn vs LC and Elkhart vs Crown Point would be the opening doubleheader

 

As a Coach.....hard pass on Saturday double headers during the regular season.  

Nothing would be worse than playing the late game and then having to turn around and prepare for next weeks opponent.

12 minutes ago, CoachGallogly said:

Center Grove has made it to the final four  10 of the last 11 years.   It wasn't that long ago LC was in the finals 2 out of 3 years, and just whooping people.  They are both in the bottom half of 6A.   North Central, Lake Central, Avon, Noblesville, Crown Point, all have zero trips in the past 10 years, but are in the top 1/2 of 6A.   Enrollment is not the overriding factor for each of their success or lack of success individually.   

There are many reasons schools succeed.  Enrollment is one of those factors, but it is not the only factor, and often it's not even #1 on the list.   The 3 mega outliers certainly have an extra advantage due to their size, nobody would argue that.  But North Central is 98% of the size of Warren Central, and you have two very very different scenarios.  

It doesn't appear you are following me on this.  Cutting 8 teams or 16 teams from 6A doesn't reduce the chances of the big 3 from winning.  You're argument reeks of self-interest if you deny that fact.  

With respect I don't think reducing the big 3's chances is at all what he is talking about.  I think he's talking about removing more of the 6A schools that will always have LESS of chance, and putting them into 5A.  This limits 6A to just the schools that have MORE of a chance against the big 3 based on enrollment. 

Those may sound like the same thing to some, but to me they are different and I don't think that is being recognized.  

Covid bait!!🤪

Well done @Rudy

Thread completely derailed in 2 hours by one post🤪

21 hours ago, Bobref said:

More like a distinction without a difference. 

I disagree.....I still get to do that🤪

2 hours ago, Bobref said:

Philosophically, I have no problem with changing the rule to allow the offense to “give up” a play. After all, if a running back takes a knee to stay inbounds and keep the clock running, isn’t he “giving up” on the play? There are other examples.

Yes, but that is different that "giving up" a play that would be a 6 yard loss (sack) by dumping the ball away for no loss.  Apples and Oranges.  In your example he is looking to gain an advantage (the clock running) by doing so, not avoid a loss.

Being unable to protect your QB, shouldn't be fixed by giving the offense and easy out.  You adjust your play calling or have your Q drop to a knee if you you're afraid for his life.

On 3/15/2021 at 3:16 PM, LaSalle Lions 1976 said:

Just curious...why is OT a thing.  Games have ended in a tie since sports began.

It is necessary to have a winner.  I can see it if has to do with seeding a tournament or something like that.

I remember going to the last tie game at Notre Dame Stadium.  I still enjoyed the game.

Overtime is needed during the playoffs, but why during the season

Was it the 10-10 Michigan game?  I was there too....

I'm a fan of the HS OT model.  If people believe there should be discussion about whether the OT should start on the 10 yl or 15 or 20, maybe that is worth discussion.  But if the goal is short and simple, having OT start at the 10yl with line to gain being the GL...it can't get much simpler and quicker.  I don't think the vast majority of HS kickers are good enough to warrant moving back further to start an OT possession.

I would classify every two (as we do now) but based on a "rolling 4 year" amount of SF points.  I think that is what others might be suggesting as well.

On 3/3/2021 at 3:43 PM, Bears62 said:

Probably would have been better to wait until basketball seasons finishes but I went ahead and found out each 6a football schools record for basketball and football combined. Obviously not a power ranking for which school puts out the best team but interesting nonetheless. Combined record is in parentheses and win percentage is to the right, ranked by percentage.
 

6A.

1. Homestead (33-2) .943%
2. Lafayette Jeff (32-3) .914%
3. Carmel (29-5) .853%
4. Westfield (29-6) .829%
4. Lawrence North (29-6) .829%
6. Center Grove (26-6) .813%
7. FW Carroll (23-9) .719%
8. Warsaw (23-10) .697%
9. Columbus North (17-8) .680%
10. Brownsburg (20-10) .667%
11. Warren Central (22-12) .647%
12. Elkhart (21-12) .636%
12. Chesterton (21-12) .636%
12. Crown Point (14-8) .636%
15. Merrillville (20-12) .625%
16. HSE (18-13) .581%
16. North Central (18-13) .581%
18. Fishers (17-15) .531%
18. FW Snider (17-15) .531%
20. Ben Davis (19-17) .528%
21. Penn (16-16) .500%
21. Lake Central (16-16) .500%
23. Pike (14-17) .452%
24. Noblesville (13-18) .419%
25. Arsenal Tech (13-19) .406%
25. Perry Meridian (13-19) .406%
27. Lawrence Central (12-19) .387%
28. Portage (11-21) .344%
29. Avon (9-19) .321%
30. Franklin Central (10-22) .313%
31. Columbus East (9-20) .310%
32. Southport (7-21) .250%

If I were to choose a top 3 for quality combined between the 2 sports I would most likely rank it:

1. Carmel

2. Center Grove

3. Westfield (slightly ahead of Lawrence North)

 

Would be more valid if you averaged the win% for football with win% for basketball.  As you have them listed, it gives greater weight to basketball performance as they play more games.

3 hours ago, crimsonace1 said:

Whiteland will be 6A sooner rather than later. Two relatively-new exits off I-65 have been built in the Clark Township half of their school district and it's growing fast. 

Plainfield is also in a fast-growing area although it will need some time to get to 6A. I'd expect to see it get there in 6-10 years. Wouldn't be shocked to see Franklin eventually join them but it will take more time. Greenfield-Central has been 5A but likely won't get to 6A as their enrollment has been leveling off and declining for some time. Another to look for is Mt. Vernon, which is one of the fastest-growing areas in the state. They will be 5A either this cycle or next, and likely won't be long before they jump to 6A.

Cathedral and New Pal are actually 4A schools by enrollment. While New Palestine is growing fast, it will probably be a decade or so before it hits 6A enrollment. 

My reference to Cathedral was based upon Success Factor....

11 minutes ago, Indiana Fan said:

Crazy to think about. It might be the largest high school in the country.

 

Quick google search shows multiple public high schools in NY (more than one in Brooklyn) with ~7000 students (one is over 8000).  No idea what the format of these schools are (9-12? multiple campuses?)....just what the interwebs told me🤪

Going form CA1's numbers...the only Indy donut schools in 5A are Whiteland, Decatur Cent, Plainfield, Franklin, New Pal & Cathedral.

Whiteland & DC could be 6A in the relatively near future, depending on enrollment drops in the bottom of 6A.  Cathedral will be 6A as soon as SF determines they bump...maybe sooner, maybe later.  I don't see any of the others making that jump any time too soon.

Just a random thought while looking at those numbers....it might be possible for Carmel to be 6000 students before a school like  Franklin was even to 2000 students.  I live in Hamilton Co, but have not heard ANY discussion of Carmel splitting....how long can that be the case?  There is still a little room for growth in the west part of their district.  I don't think 6000 students is impossible.

I would also give a big thumbs up to Homestead's in house broadcast.  Its actually better than many professional productions out there.  Absolutely excellent!

2 questions for resident IHSAA officials:

1. Am I reading this correctly that ALL low blocks must occur immediately at the snap....regardless of the QB's presnap locaiton (UC or Shotgun)?

2. Can the OL start in a 2pt stance and cut?

13 hours ago, DT said:

Again, we are talking about elevating the Crown Point football program.  The new staff will not be satisfied sith an occasional DAC title and a sectional or even a regional.  They will come out full guns blazing and start acting like a mega school with 3000 students.  

I'm assuming the new staff must be made up of only two.....a Master & an apprentice.

"Only a Sith deals in absolutes...."

Obi-Wan Kenobi

/nerdrant/ off🤓