Footballking16

2 minutes ago, DT said:

I think Illinois might actually be slightly ahead of Purdue.  Lovie had a nice season and the Wisky win was huge.  Same as PU win over OSU last year

 

I’m not sure I agree with that. The worse thing to happen to Illinois was Michigan State’s colossal choke job that allowed Illinois to get to bowl eligibility and will likely net Lovie an extension. This is an Illinois team that lost at home to Northwestern and Eastern Michigan and barely beat UConn. Illinois had a bevy of grad transfers who won’t be with the program next year.

7 minutes ago, Coach Nowlin said:

I think you can openly talk about b10 and national playoff hopes while on the rebuild 

A B10 championship for Purdue is a pipe dream right now and talks of play hopes is living in fantasy land. 
 

Wisconsin is and will for the time being be the class of the West. Minnesota may be pushing the needle but Purdue is way below the curve.

11 minutes ago, Coach Nowlin said:

 I know that is what has been coming out of West Lafayette's camp, but from the response above, because you play in B10 East, you do not want to schedule any other teams that could actually help your program's trajectory into National recognized, you just want to be happy going for 8-9 wins.   Seems like you are selling IU short on expectations.   

I'm not selling the program short, just being a realist. IU isn't going to leapfrog success and neither is a Purdue. To get to that upper echelon, you need to be a consistent bowl qualifier and in theory you should see an uptick in recruiting. Who has more momentum right now? An IU team with a chance at 9 wins playing a January bowl or a 4-8 Purdue team putting a lot of their eggs in one basket hoping that a bunch of RS freshman who didn't play and underclassmen take a massive leap?

Brohm was a home run hire for sure, but I think his aura is starting to wear off. He was significantly out-coached in a few games this year and has some head-scratching losses the last couple years. Do you think Purdue will be able to sustain its recruiting momentum after the allure of offering immediate playing time has worn off? Especially coming off a 4-8 season? I'm looking at Purdue's schedule next year and I'm not confident I see 6 surefire wins. Can't be paying a coach $6+/mil yr and not make it to a bowl game. 

On 12/7/2019 at 6:35 PM, TrojanDad said:

I need to ask Dad, but believe he’s graduating from Stanford 

Any chance he's come home and play for another team that wears white and off red? Those colors seem to follow him hehehe

6 minutes ago, Coach Nowlin said:

When can we see IU actually doing something to their soft NON conference slate?   

Purdue NON conference from 2017 to 2024:  11 Power 5 teams and ND :   Mizzou, Boston College, L'ville, Syracuse, Virginia Tech, Oregon St, TCU, Vandy, and Notre Dame 

Purdue: 17' Louisville, Ohio, Mizzou (2 P5 teams) 18' Eastern Michigan, Mizzou, BC (2 P5 teams) 19' Nevada, TCU, Vandy (2 P5 teams)  20' Memphis Air Force BC (1 P5 team and 1 consistent winner, though losing Norvel hurts)  21' Oregon St, ND, Uconn ( 1 P5 and 1 Indy team that seems to carry some nationwide clout)  22' Indiana St, Uconn, FAU (Finally in 22' a Non conference schedule to rival IU's)  23'  Fresno St, VT, Syracuse (2 P5 teams) 24' Indiana St, ND, Oregon St (1 P5 1 national brand team in ND) 

IU NON conference From 2017-2024:   4 Power 5 teams :   Virginia 2 years, Louisville 2 years:  NO P5 teams in 2019, 2020, 2021, 2022.     

IU: 17' Virginia, FIU, Georgia Southern, Charleston Southern (1 P5) 18' FIU, Ball ST, Virginia (1 P5) 19' Ball State, Eastern Illinois, Ball St. (O P5) 20'  Western Kentucky, Ball St UCONN (0 P5) 21' Idaho, Cincy, WKU (0 P5) 22' Idaho, Cincy, WKU (0 P5) 23' Indiana St, Akron, Louisville (1 P5) 24' FIU, Charlotte, L'ville (1 P5)

So when can we expect IU Football to start scheduling some actual SEC/B12/ACC/P12 teams????  

IU already plays Ohio State, Michigan, and Penn State every year and up until this year MSU has routinely been a top 15, top 20 program. If the goal is bowl eligibility, why does IU need to schedule a bunch of P5 schools in the non-conference when they already play 3-4 top 25 teams in the B10 East and potentially more in crossover games? I've seen several Purdue fans bring this up? Purdue played S&P #113 Nevada, S&P #103 Vanderbilt and a 5-7 TCU team playing a true freshman QB in the non-conference. And you still went 4-8? Does Purdue get some kind of trophy for losing to better teams? SOS has ZERO bearing on bowl eligibility. Does Purdue really gain anything by accumulating 2-3 losses in the non-conference and then failing to make a bowl?

10 minutes ago, Coach Nowlin said:

When does IU start scheduling Power 5 conference teams in the pre season?    See above.   and See below 

I don't make the schedule. And like I said above would you rather be 8-4 playing in a January bowl and getting the extra month of practice or sitting at home talking about how you "valiantly" scheduled better teams?

12 minutes ago, Coach Nowlin said:

They have backed up that initial class with currently another top 30 class as it stands on this day:  https://247sports.com/college/purdue/Season/2020-Football/Commits/

dropped a few spots when 4 star kid out of Texas, flipped to Colorado

So what happens?   Purdue Continues to recruit high skill and work on getting the high end OL to jump on board.  They continue to offer all the best OL in and around the midwest and afar, so its not from lack of trying. 

I won't say with 100% certainty, but I believe Purdue's recruiting is going to start plateauing and steadily decline from here on out. I still think they can land top 30 or 40 classes, but they aren't going to be able to sell immediate playing time to 4* recruits, especially at the skill positions, as Brohm's initial classes become upperclassmen. That has been a huge selling point for him as he inherited very little. But IU has steadily been stockpiling lineman and even someone like PJ Fleck came in and strengthened his OL with a bunch of JUCO/Grad Transfers something Brohm neglected. I think you're at least two years away from seeing a serviceable offensive line in West Lafayette.

17 minutes ago, Coach Nowlin said:

I think we as rational college football fans understand that OL is far more difficult to bring in a 17-19 year old kid and start as a true freshman in the Big10, doesn't happen often, need time to develop.   I really liked what I saw out of Cam Craig, I was 3 rows from the field when PU OL Coach, benched the LG when he missed the assignment vs IU on a big 4th down play early in the game, the True Freshman went in and did really well, PU saved many of those OL guys from the 2019 class to RS them and started playing them in spurts last 4 games to retain their Red Shirt. 

Agree but that is something IU has done. They started Coy Cronk from day 1 who turned into an All-10 caliber lineman and threw another true freshman into the fire when he went down with an injury and it's very likely Cronk is back for a 5th year along with BEdford (true freshman) and 2 other starters from this years unit. They also just added a grad transfer from Stanford who Purdue was very high on.

IU hasn't gotten the "stars" that Purdue has, but IU for the last 3 years has quietly stockpiled some unheralded talent and more importantly depth on both lines. And they've all been getting major PT as well.

7 minutes ago, DACNUT said:

Because I cannot think of another 4A enrollment school that is PUBLIC, ever be arguably the best team in the state. 

Reitz 2007 and 2009 were up there. They smoked Cathedral in 2009 in a year where Cathedral beat Carmel and Warren to start the year.

15 minutes ago, olinecoach said:

You really don't think he will play at all until his final year of eligibility?? 

I think he'll play special teams and could as early as this coming year, but doubt he sees the rotation until he's an upperclassmen, if ever. Two more years of Stevie Scott and Ronnie Walker, 3 more years of Sampson James and a few hours before Spegal committed, IU landed a RB out of VA who was previously committed to Michigan. I'm sure Allen will take a RB or two in the 2021 class as well.

17 minutes ago, DT said:

Purdue is building its program on the premise that it can beat teams 60-55 enough times a year to make a run at a division title and go to a bowl game

What happens when Bell, Moore and GK declare early for the NFL?

 

Brohm has had some great success recruiting top end skill position players on the premise of early playing time. And while that has netted some very highly rated classes, I feel he's neglected to develop and deepen his offensive line. Will see if that eventually catches up to him. 

Shocked he took a PWO at IU, but as an IU fan I’ll take it. IU is loaded at RB with Scott, Sampson James and Ronnie Walker, the two latter 4* recruits who are back ups. IU also just landed another RB out of VA today that was previously committed to Michigan. 

On 12/6/2019 at 12:41 PM, Coach Nowlin said:

Food For Thought:

 

 

  

I’d rather be 8-4 than 4-8 any day of the week. IU is playing in a January Bowl against an SEC team getting an extra month of practice, Purdue is sitting at home. IU returns 18/22 on their 2 deep on the defensive side and 17/22 on the offensive side. IU had a ton of underclassmen contribute and a reason why the Hoosiers are 8-4. Purdue is putting a ton of stock into kids that redshirted last year of kids that got hurt and didn’t get the game experience. I think Purdue fans are in for a rude awakening. Thin and weak in the trenches and that typically isn’t a winning formula in the B10.

1 minute ago, CaptainHook said:

I know of an HHC kid that did just that.  Moved after freshman year.  Went private.  He played with little IHSAA difficulty.

It helps when both schools sign off, especially when transferring to a private.

Eron Gordon was a debacle. There were two D1 athletes that transferred from North Central to Cathedral a few years. One was Jordan Walker who has been a 4 year starter at Morehead State who was cleared with no issue. The other was obviously Gordon and because of his household name (Eric Gordon’s brother), he had limited eligibility. It was a mess.

1 minute ago, JQWL said:

 

Interesting.

How is it interesting? 

He said the exact same thing as I said but used actually schools as an example. A student who goes to a public junior high in Lawrence Township but enrolls at Chatard as a freshman isn’t considered a transfer. Somebody who attends West Lafayette as a freshman but attends Chatard as a sophomore because their parents moved to Indianapolis obviously isn’t an athletic transfer. A kid who starts out at Lawrence North and transfers to a private school 3 miles down the road is obviously going to be considered an athletic transfer, assuming they play sports.

All of this is common sense, self-explanatory. As someone who lists coach/staff in their bio, it’s kind of mystifying how this is somehow news to you? Are you being pedantic?

1 minute ago, JQWL said:

Please use your private school education to explain to me how I am wrong here. Slowly please because public school education prohibits me from comprehending what I am reading. Pictures would be appreciated.

An athletic transfer is an athletic transfer. I don’t know what else to tell you? Regardless if it’s public to public, private to public, public to private, a student who transfers for athletic purposes shall be deemed to have limited eligibility ruled forth by the IHSAA.

A person who starts their career at one high school who then transfers to another high school is deemed a transfer. An 8th grader who attends a junior high school in one district but elects to attend a high school in an opposing district is exercising open enrollment.

No pictures necessary, this is pretty much common sense.

Just now, JQWL said:

Im not sure what your issue is. I'm asking a seperate question all together. Wasn't directed at you. Had it been directed at you, I would have quoted one of your elitist comments or messaged you directly. So, if anyone else who has any experience on how the IHSSA handles public to private transfers, I would like to know. Thanks.

You made a blanket (and wrong) statement pertaining to open enrollment using an example of an athletic transfer. Considering I was the one who brought up open enrollment, I figured you were referencing my posts. Not shocking you don’t understand how open enrollment works.
 

42 minutes ago, JQWL said:

People keep bringing up open enrollment like it makes public and private schools equal. I know if I played at my local school as a sophomore and transfer to a school 20 miles away without relocating, the IHSAA will probably grant me limited eligibility for my junior year.

Well that’s not how open enrollment works but thanks for playing.

Whats you’ve just described is a transfer and has nothing to do with what I’m talking about.

1 hour ago, DT said:

 

Its doubtful we will ever see a big school blue collar team in the finals in the future. 

Warren and Ben Davis aren’t blue collar? Yikes.

1 hour ago, Patriot 74 said:

I would like however to discuss an advantage Public schools have???  Obviously athletic motivated please

-Tax dollars that goes towards infrastructure (stadium, playing surface, weight room). Most facilities at P/P’s (assuming they have their own stadium) are dated and any upgrades that are made are almost solely through donations

-Open enrollment (in most cases), almost every district is open enrollment and kids can navigate towards any school they want without paying a steep tuition fee

-eligibility requirements. Again this is likely arbitrary and varies from district to district, but would guess the average p/p has stricter eligibility requirements than the IHSAA minimum compared to its average counterpart

6 minutes ago, Patriot 74 said:

Okay this topic was supposed advantage of P/P schools!! I would say over 30% of your male student body playing football is an advantage!! 
And Lysander if you were to have a North Deanery school your class would be the Big 10 and you would be playing in a bowl game every year!!!

Who is disagreeing that P/P's don't have some advantages over their public counterparts? But there's also certain advantages that publics enjoy over P/P's as well.

We've already established that higher participation rates, better parent involvement, and a phenomenal feeder program is something that schools like Cathedral/Chatard enjoy over their public counterparts.

But capping their enrollment to stay in a certain class (something you keep advocating) sure as hell ain't one. 

19 minutes ago, Lysander said:

Edit - God forbid what Chatard would be like if it wasn’t splitting almost 50% of its North Deanery football players with Cathedral and Brebeuf.  Could you imagine combining Chatard and Cathedral into a single North Deanery parochial....

Would be a perennially nationally ranked program

2 minutes ago, Patriot 74 said:

Serious question........how does this pertain to the advantage a P/P school has over a public school

Has everything to do with everything. CYO is one of the best feeder systems in the entire state. You have 7 or 8 schools that feed into Chatard and they all start out playing as 3rd and 4th graders with and against each other. Everyone gets to play and they run the same schemes as the high school. It's not uncommon to get 4 QB's or 4 RB's or 4 of whatever who are all really good and who have all been the best players on their grade school teams for 5 or 6 years. It promotes competition. Having one middle school weeds as opposed to 7 or 8 weeds out the competition and players quit due to lack of playing time before they ever fully develop. That's why you see so many kids on Chatard's roster relative to their enrollment.

2 minutes ago, Patriot 74 said:

May not cap their enrollments, in your opinion......but perception is reality, some schools never seem to grow when every other schools in the region are !!

Perception is reality. Thanks for stating as such.

P/P enrollments are DECLINING. It's ain't cheap to send your kid to a private school. 

Do you have any kind of real life scenario where private schools are rejecting applications? Because I know this isn't the case.

2 minutes ago, US31 said:

I always thought the best fix would have been to put bottom 16 in 1A, top 16 in 6A, divide the rest by 4.  Combine with rolling 4 year SF cycle and you've got something.  

my 2 cents

That honestly isn't a terrible idea although I think you'd run into scheduling issues in playoffs. 1A and 6A would essentially have two weeks off before they played their first game assuming you keep the Thanksgiving Weekend Finals format.

Could see where the field for 2A-5A is eliminated by 20-30% at the conclusion of the regular season to get to 32 teams and adding a 10th regular season game. 1A and 6A get a bye like 5A and 6A do now and the schedule to the finals remains the same.

You may be on to something.

3 minutes ago, Patriot 74 said:

That's why in one of my earlier arguments I started by saying "you're not going to convince most if any public school supporter......" 

That's why I said I wasn't going to convince you, just tell you you're wrong.

I'll take my own personal experience along with dozens of others over some emotionallcharged and butt hurt fan who just had their season wrecked by a P/P. I see this every year.

-P/P's don't cap their enrollments to remain in certain classes to pad their trophy cases

-P/P's don't take kids from all over the entire to line their athletic sidelines

-P/P's don't give scholarships out to their athletes

I've been on the GID going on close to 12 years and this type of stuff comes this time of year, every year, usually by the opponent of a team recently smacked by a P/P, namely Chatard or Cathedral. 

There are absolutely inherent advantages that P/P's enjoy over like-sized publics, namely participation rates and parent involvement, and I've never steered from that. But you aren't the first, and certainly won't be the last to suggest that schools like Chatard cap their enrollment so they can stay in a class and pad their trophy case. 

9 minutes ago, Patriot 74 said:

Ain't gonna happen because the P/P schools don't want it to happen!!!  In retrospect had it happened the way many thought, the 2A championship many thought Mater Dei would/could lay claim to that trophy!!  Had that happened 1A-4A state champs all P/P schools, and that's how EVERYONE likes it!!!  Nah I'm not buying your......"not everyone cares about a trophy case" stuff!!!  Of course school staffs and their students care.  Of course parents care.  Of course administrators care.  C'mon man!! 

And how could this be a tournament less competitive???  Are you telling me that NO OTHER P/P school can compete with Chatard???  Wow never thought I would've seen the day........

I'm not talking about the state finals guy. I'm talking about the overall competitiveness covering the entire tournament spanning multiple rounds. There's Cathedral, Chatard, teams like Dwenger, Memorial in most years and then a pretty significant drop off after that. Cathedral playing Park Tudor or Herritage Christian? Ya that would would go over well. 

And did I ever say athletics didn't matter at P/P's? No. But athletics aren't the sole reason, let alone half the reason why parents seek them out. A 100% graduation rate and 99% acceptance rate is a lot more appealing to those footing the bill (parents) than a good football team or a girls tennis team.

You aren't this dense in real life are you?

3 minutes ago, MHSTigerFan said:

Also, speaking from experience these past several years, 3A has definitely been tougher than 4A in football...whatever that’s worth.

Well that's because all the good 4A schools are playing up in 5A.

5 minutes ago, Patriot 74 said:

will assure you this, you aren't going to totally convince many if any public school backers that one of the main reason P/P schools stay where they are in enrollment IS due to the fact that they have significant success in sports.

Has ZERO impact. Not every P/P is an athletic factory and in some cases P/P's are some of the least competitive teams in the their class given the sport. I don't need to convince you, just telling you that you are wrong.

7 minutes ago, Patriot 74 said:

That could be one of the best selling points P/P schools have to offer kids, especially athletes "do you want play for a state championship in ________________, then enroll here!" (put whatever sport you want in the blank) 

If that were the case, wouldn't that lead to more students and subsequently an enrollment spike? Enrollment's at P/P's are on the decline, not the other way around. And it ain't because of their trophy case.

8 minutes ago, Patriot 74 said:

Yes private schools are funded by tax dollars, things have changed.  You are correct, you may not be able to snap fingers and build a school, but there are other means to support more students if that's what P/P schools really wanted!! 

Yes we've established that P/P's receive voucher money, but that money is used almost elusively towards free/reduced lunches. P/P's can't snap their fingers and have tax dollars allotted to build new infrastructure for an influx of applicants that already doesn't exist.

9 minutes ago, Patriot 74 said:

All I know is this:  I think I made the best, most feasible solution earlier!!!  If class size doesn't matter.  If there are no true advantages of public vs private.  If the end game is not to a certainty to achieve athletic success at the highest level and that includes state championships........Then it's simple, have one tournament for P/P schools.  ONE state champ in the P/P class!!  It makes complete sense.   This argument would end so quickly!!

An all P/P state tournament would be less competitive than any of the current tournaments. And it's not going to happen.