FastpacedO

18 hours ago, Muda69 said:

No, I don't believe we can agree on that.  There are myriad other options besides sports that can teach children valuable lessons.

1.) So the government high school weight room is opened up on Saturday morning and 2.)supervised by the children?

1.) Yes many are opened on Saturday, heck sometimes there are athletic and non-athletic extra curricular activities on Saturday. Are you against Brain Games, Model UN, Chess competition, Show Choir competitions, and Band Competitions on Saturday? Or is it only athletic events and you talk out of both ends).

2.) that was your wording not mine. Most schools that have open gyms or weight rooms have strength/conditioning coaches  or physical education teachers that volunteer their time to supervise the gym, weight room, or pool (unless of course for the gym or pool there is a competition then you have surervision already).

8 hours ago, Muda69 said:

<insert deity here> forbid we let children be children for once, especially on a weekend. No, practically every waking moment of their birth-to-18 existence must be filled with planned (by adults) activities and "optional" workouts. 

 

Where did anyone here mention that this was planned (by adults) activities? I know many schools have open gyms and weight rooms on Saturday. Optional does mean it is their choice, they can choose to workout/lift weights or choose to be a kid and do something else. Did it ever occur to you that perhaps some of these young men and women play the sport and workout for that sport because they love it and not because of what an adult tells them to do. Just like some like to skateboard, ride dirt bikes, play chess, etc. etc.

On 11/3/2022 at 7:07 AM, BTF said:

I would argue that Snider had the best team in the state of Indiana in '86, '92, '97, and '04. It took Carmel overtime to beat Snider in '86 and Snider was without their starting quarterback and turned the ball over four times. The '04 team is arguable. Warren Central was very good. But they did have some lucky bounces to their way in defeating a Snider team whose D1 running back was out with a broken ankle. 

But the main question here is whether or not anyone up north has been competitive in the last 9 years. Yes they have. It was Penn in 2015. 

As far as Indy teams being better? No, that's just not the case. In fact, Indy football inside the donut is utterly awful. The teams out of Indy that dominate the rest of the state are the three mega giants...........Carmel, Ben Davis, and Warren Central. And the suburban schools who outnumber most of their competition in terms of enrollment. But to say Indy football is better? That's completely false. 

I disagree, but to each their own. I am sure Warren Central had some injuries as well. However a young Darren Evans and Dexter Taylor played just fine against Snider in that win. If by lucky bounce you mean a Snider player muffing a punt or a option pitch that hit the ground and bounced up to Taylor, it still doesn't take away from what the Warriors did that game. There is no doubt the 04 WC team was the best team in the State Championship #2 of 4 straight I do believe.

15 minutes ago, Dave007 said:

Our defense stepped up big time, pretty much allowing just 7 pts until the late 4Q TD with our second and third units in the game. 

After Danny O'Neil was sacked the 6th time I stopped counting...not sure where that stat line finished up but to credit of LC defense for smothering him and pulling out all the stops.

Great win, bring on Brownsburg!

Understand that game will probably be at Tech?

Lawrence Central's D-line was not big, they were however fast and used technique along with their speed very well. The Irish coaching staff I think caught on as the game went along. LC's D-line would come up the field so hard that when the Irish would run inside zone or trap they could rip off 8-9 yards. It was almost like the d-line would run themselves out of making the tackle on inside runs. Early the Irish tried running outside zone but D-line and LB's were too fast for that. When they ran it up the gut they had much more success.

With the sacks I think high snaps were a big contribution to that. Many times the QB had to jump up to get the snap then look for reads. With the speed of the D-line quick reads and release were a necessity, which was not easy when you have to jump up and snag a bad snap. I had not seen much of that this season from their center which makes me think he was trying to get out quickly and his snaps suffered because of it. Of course I could always be wrong and not have a clue just speculating on the eyeball test.

18 minutes ago, temptation said:

“Found” a brand new QB who just became eligible.  

Yeah I knew that. The question is though: will it be enough to spark a victory over the Trojans at Center Grove.

1 hour ago, temptation said:

All teams eligible.

1. Hamilton Southeastern 
2. Brownsburg
3. Cathedral
4. Center Grove
5. Roncalli
6. New Palestine
7. Westfield
8. Carroll (Fort Wayne)
9. Fort Wayne Snider
10. East Central
11. Fishers
12. Carmel
13. Ben Davis
14. Lawrence Central
15. Whiteland
16. Warren Central
17. Fort Wayne North
18. Lawrence North
19. Bishop Chatard
20. Brebeuf Jesuit
21. West Lafayette 
22. New Prairie
23. Lafayette Jefferson
24. Crown Point
25. Merrillville

Good to see you left Brebeuf Jesuit up there. I know they may drop off some as weeks go by. That was a heck of an effort by them against Roncalli last night. The Braves steadily improved as the season went along.

East Central's 47-0 win over Martinsville was an eye opener. I expected the Trojans to win easily, but didn't expect them to shut-out (curb stomp) the Artesians after the way they played against Whiteland and Mooresville. Trojans had a tight one with Roncalli too, heck their only loss was their worst game against Cincy Moeller who is doing well in Ohio Div 1.

I have got to go see some game film of Carroll (FW). I was impressed with Lafayette Jeff's win over Crown Point but think Carroll will beat Laff Jeff this week. I am curious will they be able to contend with the winner of Westfield vs HSE or not.

Definitely have some big Regional games in 6A South:

Cathedral at Brownsburg- I was impressed with Cathedral's defensive play against LC because LC can put up a bunch of points, Irish Offense has been pretty consistent but defense has struggled at times. Giving up only 7 points to them until the last 3 minutes was a step in the right direction. Brownsburg while the drubbing of Avon wasn't surprising, they manhandled Ben Davis the week before in what I thought would be a tight game. Definitely interested in seeing a Week 12 match-up between Brownsburg and Cathedral after seeing the week 2 match-up and both teams have improved.

Warren Central at Center Grove- It seems the Warriors have found some offense as of late granted it was against Southport and Perry Meridian. The week 1 match-up between CG and WC was a 17-8 game. Definitely interested in seeing the turnout of this game. CG playing at home is an advantage, but is this WC offensive production a product of playing 2 bad teams in Southport and PM or have they started to find something. We will find out next week.

7 hours ago, TigerFan20 said:

Looks like those are the only 2, however, does Ohio has a running Clock? Since EC beat Harrison (Ohio), 41-6 there 

Yes Ohio has a running clock when you reach a certain margin. However unlike Indiana if score drops back below that margin it reverts back to regular clock.

"1.64) Point Differential/Running Clock: After the first half of regular season 7th-8th grade, sub-varsity and varsity contests, any time the score differential reaches 30 points or more, a running clock shall be used. After the 30-point differential has been met but the score drops below 30 points, the clock reverts to regular timing."

6 hours ago, PHJIrish said:

Nice Irish defensive effort, but the special teams still needs some work.  I think the wind was a factor for both QB's tonight.

It seemed to me the Irish had some troubles snapping the ball. Several high snaps that seemed to disrupt plays and Special teams. It seemed consistent too. LC had a lot of speed on the D-line perhaps Center was trying to get out quickly, regardless I thought the QB did well getting the snap and making plays.

Probably one of the Irish's better defensive performances of the year.

4 hours ago, tango said:

Harrell has New Pal and EC as heavy favorites. Can either of the Catholics beat the odds?  

Only one way to find out. Line em' up under the lights on Friday and see what happens (well except EC at Ev Memorial it will probably be Saturday.

On 11/1/2022 at 10:58 PM, CaptainHook said:

Grayson will miss the rest of the season.  Get well soon kid.

Hate to see that, he has had a spectacular season. Now that I know he is not a Senior, I hope he recovers quickly and comes back even stronger!

5 minutes ago, MonkeyButt said:

Maybe. But if Penn was even in the game that is still one championship game since 2014.

The statement was "I have yet to see a 6A team from the north come close to competing with an Indy team for a state championship title". I just gave an instance regardless and it was 7 years ago. There is no if it was 21-16 in the 4th qtr between Penn and CG. I would 100% call that competitive.

3 minutes ago, PDB26 said:

@MonkeyButt probably should have said "consistently competing" or more than "occasionally competing". I do think you could say that Penn was consistently competing with Carmel for a  stretch from 2013-2017. Being honest, it hasn't been pretty for the true north for about 20 years now.

It hasn't but there has been competitive game between Central Indiana and Northern Indiana teams at the Regional Semi-State Level. It's not the State Championship but they gave a battle to a Central Indiana team in the Regional or Semi-State, but it ended up being 2 Central Indiana teams in teh State Cgponship game

50 minutes ago, MonkeyButt said:

I don't believe any undefeated team is "overrated". However, they may not be as good as their undefeated records says. That all depends on the quality of teams they play. I am not familiar with CP's schedule and because they are in the north and I am from central Indiana I tend to have the central Indy mentality that many 6A northern teams are overrated in comparison to teams in Indy and the surrounding area. But that is only because I have yet to see a 6A team from the north come close to competing with an Indy team for a state championship title.

2015 Center Grove beat Penn 28-16, was that not competing?

Note 6A has only been around since 2013 so 9 years old. Back in 5A (pre 6A) the last true Northern team to win (not Central Indiana) was Penn in 2000 with a 21-0 win over Center Grove.

42 minutes ago, MonkeyButt said:

I don't believe any undefeated team is "overrated". However, they may not be as good as their undefeated records says. That all depends on the quality of teams they play. I am not familiar with CP's schedule and because they are in the north and I am from central Indiana I tend to have the central Indy mentality that many 6A northern teams are overrated in comparison to teams in Indy and the surrounding area. But that is only because I have yet to see a 6A team from the north come close to competing with an Indy team for a state championship title.

2015 Center Grove beat Penn 28-16, was that not competing?

1 hour ago, BTF said:

They took Cathedral to the wire and had a pretty good season before getting dominated by Carroll. I don't think it's unreasonable to think that Carroll can't hang with Indy's best............unless we're strictly going by results of the past. 

If by the wire you mean stayed within 1 point prior to halftime (14-13). The Irish outscored them 21-8 and that 8 came in the 4th quarter, not what I would consider to the wire. It also was a week 3 game, week 3 vs week 10 or 11 can be totally different. Carroll can always prove me wrong and I will eat my words, but I believe Fishers, Westfield, and HSE would win in a head to head match-up.

1 minute ago, temptation said:

Eh, got lucky.  A big believer in experience and I think Gilbert is one hell of a coach.

He definitely is. They took a couple lumps early on, but he has definitely coached the team up and as they have gained experience they have gotten better!

On 10/29/2022 at 7:12 PM, Komets2727 said:

I think Carroll and Snider are both better than Fishers and Westfield. Let’s see how it plays out…

I am not so sure I would say that right now. Fishers lost in OT to HSE 28-27 and lost to Westfield 28-17. Westfield dropped an early one to New Pal (who is evidently very good regardless of class this year)and lost to HSE 26-21 and actually had a lead on Brownsburg at halftime on the road. Westfield has steadily improved (evidenced by their win over Carmel). HSE is in my opinion Head and Shoulders above all remaining 6A North teams (we will se how it plays out), and Fishers and Westfield are right there with HSE.

On 10/29/2022 at 7:23 PM, BTF said:

35-7 over Penn is eye popping. Even the Indy folks can attest to that. 

I respect Temp's poll. He's ready to bounce Carroll and Snider like a yoyo. Could be up, could be down. We'll have answers after semi-state. I will say that Carroll's win over Penn should have put them at #5. He's being cautious. 

Right now I have Carroll over Fishers and Westfield with Snider right about even with them. 

I am not sure I would go that far. Penn hasn't exactly been killing it the last couple of years. Right now I would take Fishers and Westfield over Carroll or Snider personally. Fortunately for Snider or Carrol they won't see Fishers or Westfield (unless they upset HSE which is very possible). I personally think barring any injury HSE will be coming out of the North (and I will eat my words if I am wrong). 

8 hours ago, Impartial_Observer said:

I will admit I’ve been to OV a few times over the years as well as having them in the road. They don’t have a much tradition. Good for OV, always good to see some success after a long drought. 

Maybe not a whole lot of tradition, but I remember them having a really good team in 1992 (11-0 and losing to Cathedral in the 3A Regional 24-7), and in 1999 going 10-0 and losing a tight one to Ev North 18-12.

6 minutes ago, FootballFan28 said:

Thomas is a jr. Praying that it isn’t serious and he can come back soon. 

I am no expert on New Palestine football but I definitely read the article and went by that.

8 hours ago, CaptainHook said:

wut

Read the article about Thomas going out on second carry with knee injury. I hope for his sake and being a Senior it is nothing serious and he gets to continue and finish out the season! I never like to see a Senior get injured especially with the season he has had. Back-up played fine, but I want this young man to play out the rest of his senior year.

Hope all is well at the Hook homestead! 

6 hours ago, PHJIrish said:

I forgot to mention that Cathedral running back Carson Johnson had a career night tonight.  He carried the ball 33 times for 226 yards and two TD's.  Most of his yards were tough yards too!

Johnson played spectacular. There was a series in the 4th I was a little bit shocked. He had 200+ yards rushing at that time and the Irish didn't hand him the ball and went 3 and out. They punted and fortunately came up with a turnover leading to the final scoring drive. Johnson had the hot hand in that game.

7 hours ago, PHJIrish said:

Lots of fans missed a tremendous offensive football game!  It was the track meet that most thought it would be but much closer than expected, mostly because Lawrence North played their hearts out!  The old saying is that speed kills, and the LN speed almost ended the season for the Irish.  LN jumped out to a 21-10 lead in the 2nd quarter, but the Irish battled back a took a 24-21 lead at halftime.  Cathedral led the entire 4th quarter but were only up 37-35 with less than a minute left, and facing 4th down and 10.  After LN used their last time out, the Irish iced the game with a Danny O'Neil to Jaron Tibbs TD and a 44-35 win.  This was truly survive and advance for the Irish!

Next up is the sectional 6 championship game, as Cathedral will be at Lawrence Central for that one.  It could be another track meet!

LN has a special talent in Montez Jones. If the coaches can continue to work on his growth and hone his skills he will be even more dangerous. Right now it is a hit or miss. You get some spectacular blow your mind plays and then some ouch plays. I am sure he will only get better with growth only a Junior. Only bad thing is he is 5' 11" probably won't be a QB at the next level, but he is talented enough to transition into a WR at a D-1 College.

5 hours ago, Bobref said:

 

 

 

Sounds like an inadvertent whistle. What was the status of the ball at the time the whistle was blown?

Well hopefully Tom Brady didn't touch it so it would be deflated. (I had to @Bobref)

9 minutes ago, Ballhawk said:

An extra player on defense on a short field is a huge advantage.

Genius Defensive Coordinator, might have taken summer lessons with Bill Belichick!

43 minutes ago, Footballking16 said:

58-2 is the record between top half Sagarin teams and bottom half Sagrin rated teams. 

Cinderella is a myth yet it is a huge talking point as to why the all-in exists. 

 

What do you consider a Cinderella Story? By definition: Cinderella team are used to refer to situations in which competitors achieve far greater success than would reasonably have been best expected" you can be in a upper half of Sagarin and not be totally expected to beat teams and make a run. Cinderella doesn't actually mean you have to be an 0-8 team beating someone else. I think there is far confusion on Cinderella.

I will give prime example: 2000 Plainfield was a Cinderella. Defeated a super highly rated Cathedral team (considered top in the state 14-7). Plainfield wasn't a 0-9, 1-8, 2-7 etc team), they were 9-0 but considered a cinderella. I don't look at record as much.

2 hours ago, CaptainHook said:

While I might regret wallowing out in this thread...

 

Mt. Vernon is a very good football team, and I would challenge anyone that says differently.  When you have two guys like they do in Bridenthal and Burhenn, it makes them very hard to defend.  They have great schemes on defense.  Their freshman QB has come a long way this season.  And playing your cross-county rival and defending state champ two times at their place is difficult.  I would have taken an ugly one point win and been ecstatic.  Knew all week that was gonna be a tough one.

I have no idea how good Roncalli, East Central, and Northwood are.  I do not think NP will roll through 4A.  But that alone doesn't mean the winner of 4A couldn't compete in the higher classes.  I do think 4A is tougher than 5A this year. We will never know.  Hell, I still think the 2018 and 2019 NP teams would have won any class those two years.  Who cares what we think?

It does make the message boards fun though.

 

Agreed so many variables anymore. 5A is like no man's land. It is either really good with teams like New Pal and Cathedral. Or when there is a shift it pilfers the good teams (New Pal to 4A and Cathedral to 6A etc). I think this year 4A is really tough, 6A has more parody, and 5A is watered down (my personal opinion).

19 minutes ago, dmizers3 said:

That was a 1 game season.  They beat a great Columbus East team in semi state in a great game.  And I believe they could have beat Cathedral.   Not necessarily that they would have.  Would have been a good game though.

New Pal would have had a tough road with Max Bortenschlager at QB, Caleb Cross and Evan Christopher at RB, and Luke Sanders at WR. Not to mention some terrific defenders like Ben Stewart, Kendall Coleman. O-line was very solid with Emil Ekiyor (as a Freshman) and Jared Thomas. Not impossible for New Pal to win, but it would take a spectacular game by the dragons, much better game than they had against the New Prairie Cougars. Would be a fun game would have been more entertaining than the State Champiosnhip between Cathedral and LaPorte.

On 10/17/2022 at 3:17 PM, Footballking16 said:

End of week 8 up until kickoff of the opening round of sectionals always brings up the qualifier debate, one I'm deeply passionate about. One of the biggest talking points for keeping the all-in is this roundabout myth that bottom half Sagarin teams flourish in the state tournament. Short answer is....they don't. If sectionals were seeded accordingly it would only further my point that a qualifier that cuts the field in half at the conclusion of the regular season is more than an appropriate measure for the IHSAA to put out a more competitive and exciting product come tournament time. I have decided to once again track every postseason outcome (especially games that feature a top half Sagarin rated team vs a bottom half Sagarin rated team), and if history repeats itself, will only further the narrative for a new postseason format.

 

While I think it would be great to have a Playoff instead of a Tournament, I am not disappointed with the All in tournament at all. I think it could be improved upon but there are aspects I enjoy about the all in tournament. I care for it when it is mentioned using Sagarin when it comes to this discussion because Sagarin wouldn't likely be used (it doesn't take into account out of state games which several teams do play against). I do think Calpreps is very useful for it.

I will give a good example of the aspect I do like about the all in tournament. In 2017 Mooresville was 1-8 at the end of the season. They absolutely would not have made the playoffs using Calpreps they were ranked 34 out of 64 teams in the final rankings (likely were lower prior to the tournament). Coming into sectionals they beat Connersville and New Castle making it to the Sectional Championship and losing to Mid-State Conference foe Greenwood (who was ranked 6th in Calpreps). It wasn't a cinderella story of a team making it to the State Finals. What it "did" do though was they won a couple games building some confidence which propelled them to going 8-1 the next season (lone loss was to Decatur Central), winning Sectionals and losing a tight close game in Regionals to Marion 19-13.  Any of the 3 teams Mooresville, Marion, or Evansville Central that year could have been in the 4A State Championship against FW Dwenger. It ended up being Ev Central after they beat Marion in Evansville (still think that has to be the longest travel in IHSAA tournament for Semi-State ever). Ev Central lost to FW Dwnger in 4 OT's.

I don't look at it as it should be All In Format because of the Cinderella story. I look at it as getting in and getting that extra game maybe two or three with a win or two; can really propel a team for the next season. That is the aspect I like about the All In Tournament vs a Playoff format. Don't get me wrong there are benefits to a Playoff format too.