Temp’s Top 25 (Week 11)

[temptation]

1. Lawrence North
2. Westfield 
3. Crown Point
4. Brownsburg
5. Warren Central
6. Indianapolis Cathedral
7. Center Grove
8. Hamilton Southeastern
9. New Palestine
10. Carroll (Fort Wayne)
11. Evansville Memorial
12. Bishop Chatard
13. Fort Wayne Snider
14. Decatur Central
15. Merrillville
16. Lafayette Jefferson
17. Plainfield
18. Franklin Central
19. Fishers
20. Columbus North
21. Roncalli
22. Concord
23. Mishawaka
24. Martinsville 
25. Heritage Hills

[BTF]

I'm convinced Elkhart is a Top 25 team after seeing them in person. I'd bet their defense alone is Top 5. Having seen both teams, I'd give Warren Central a slight nod over Elkhart. 

[Komets2727]

4 minutes ago, BTF said:

I'm convinced Elkhart is a Top 25 team after seeing them in person. I'd bet their defense alone is Top 5. Having seen both teams, I'd give Warren Central a slight nod over Elkhart. 

Slight nod to Warren??!! Cmon man!!! Warren, Snider, and Carroll all have better defenses than Elkhart, no disrespect to Elkhart. The defensive line for Elkhart is really good, the rest of the defense not so much

[BTF]

3 minutes ago, Komets2727 said:

Slight nod to Warren??!! Cmon man!!! Warren, Snider, and Carroll all have better defenses than Elkhart, no disrespect to Elkhart. The defensive line for Elkhart is really good, the rest of the defense not so much

Yes, slight. Elkhart's defense is better than Carroll. HSE wouldn't score 45 against Elkhart. Center Grove wouldn't have 28 first half points against Elkhart. North Side wouldn't score 22 points against Elkhart. Defense is legit. 

[Komets2727]

5 minutes ago, BTF said:

Yes, slight. Elkhart's defense is better than Carroll. HSE wouldn't score 45 against Elkhart. Center Grove wouldn't have 28 first half points against Elkhart. North Side wouldn't score 22 points against Elkhart. Defense is legit. 

Don’t agree but that is fine. Snider move the ball much better against Elkhart than they did Warren or Carroll. Elkhart played 2 good teams all year until last night in Penn and Concord, rest were not good. Imagine Snider or Carroll or Warren playing Elkhart’s schedule, the defensive numbers for those teams would be insane

Edited November 2, 2024 by Komets2727

[BTF]

1 hour ago, BTF said:

I'm convinced Elkhart is a Top 25 team after seeing them in person. I'd bet their defense alone is Top 5. Having seen both teams, I'd give Warren Central a slight nod over Elkhart. 

Indy bias Temp?

[temptation]

8 minutes ago, BTF said:

Indy bias Temp?

I mean, as it always does it comes down to schedule strength.

I think Warren is a clear #1 end could be convinced Elkhart is top 5.

This is all on paper obviously because I’ve never seen Elkhart play.

[BTF]

1 minute ago, temptation said:

I mean, as it always does it comes down to schedule strength.

I think Warren is a clear #1 end could be convinced Elkhart is top 5.

This is all on paper obviously because I’ve never seen Elkhart play.

I've seen a lot of football over the years. That's a good defense Elkhart has. Maybe I should do some research on the Indy schools before making my claim, but I think I'd be hard pressed to find five defenses that are better than theirs. If Warren Central is #1, then Elkhart is, without a doubt, Top 5. I see a lot of similarities. Now, I'm not saying Elkhart is a Top Ten 6A team. Maybe they are, maybe they aren't, but that defense is legit. 

[AT53]

1 hour ago, BTF said:

Yes, slight. Elkhart's defense is better than Carroll. HSE wouldn't score 45 against Elkhart. Center Grove wouldn't have 28 first half points against Elkhart. North Side wouldn't score 22 points against Elkhart. Defense is legit. 

Not good enough apparently. 

[temptation]

51 minutes ago, BTF said:

I've seen a lot of football over the years. That's a good defense Elkhart has. Maybe I should do some research on the Indy schools before making my claim, but I think I'd be hard pressed to find five defenses that are better than theirs. If Warren Central is #1, then Elkhart is, without a doubt, Top 5. I see a lot of similarities. Now, I'm not saying Elkhart is a Top Ten 6A team. Maybe they are, maybe they aren't, but that defense is legit. 

Unpopular opinion…give Warren Elkhart’s schedule and I am not sure they give up a point all season.

Westfield, LN and Brownsburg also in consideration for one of those top 5 slots along with Snider and Elkhart.

You’ve been adamant in your critique of Sagarin and its warranted but I am sure we could come up with some sort of formula that combines SOS with points per game given up on defense.

Don’t tempt me, lol.

Edited November 2, 2024 by temptation

[BTF]

15 minutes ago, temptation said:

Unpopular opinion…give Warren Elkhart’s schedule and I am not sure they give up a point all season.

Westfield, LN and Brownsburg also in consideration for one of those top 5 slots along with Snider and Elkhart.

You’ve been adamant in your critique of Sagarin and its warranted but I am sure we could come up with some sort of formula that combines SOS with points per game given up on defense.

Don’t tempt me, lol.

Tempted, no pun intended. 

I'm just going by what I saw in person. I really don't see much difference between Warren and Elkhart. Again, I give Warren the edge. Look, Elkhart could make a case for being a Top 10 team in 6A. They have the defense and they have the athletes. Lot's of similarities to Warren Central. Gimmie Warren Central 17-7 over Elkhart. 

1 hour ago, AT53 said:

Not good enough apparently. 

They just happened to play another Top 5 defense. 

[GOLDRUSH1985]

On 11/2/2024 at 11:34 AM, Komets2727 said:

Don’t agree but that is fine. Snider move the ball much better against Elkhart than they did Warren or Carroll. Elkhart played 2 good teams all year until last night in Penn and Concord, rest were not good. Imagine Snider or Carroll or Warren playing Elkhart’s schedule, the defensive numbers for those teams would be insane

I would add New Prairie who lost to Elkhart 17-14 . They have been a pretty good program in recent years playing in Lucas Oil in 2022 . 

[Komets2727]

1 minute ago, GOLDRUSH1985 said:

I would add New Prairie who lost to Elkhart 17-14 . They have been a pretty good program in recent years playing in Lucas Oil in 2022 . 

Fair enough

[AT53]

23 hours ago, BTF said:

Tempted, no pun intended. 

I'm just going by what I saw in person. I really don't see much difference between Warren and Elkhart. Again, I give Warren the edge. Look, Elkhart could make a case for being a Top 10 team in 6A. They have the defense and they have the athletes. Lot's of similarities to Warren Central. Gimmie Warren Central 17-7 over Elkhart. 

They just happened to play another Top 5 defense. 

That’s the way the tournament works. They lost - why is this still being debated? So many shoulda woulda coulda beens. Someone else here or in another post said it best “their exactly who we thought they were”. 
 

And most importantly Warren is still playing this Friday…

[BTF]

1 minute ago, AT53 said:

That’s the way the tournament works. They lost - why is this still being debated? So many shoulda woulda coulda beens. Someone else here or in another post said it best “their exactly who we thought they were”. 
 

And most importantly Warren is still playing this Friday…

Just giving credit where credit is due, regardless of whether or not you're still playing. I think Elkhart was potentially at Top 10 team, no harm in that. Brownsburg was the best team in the state last year. It's a forum. Talk football. 

[FastpacedO]

On 11/2/2024 at 2:26 PM, temptation said:

Unpopular opinion…give Warren Elkhart’s schedule and I am not sure they give up a point all season.

Westfield, LN and Brownsburg also in consideration for one of those top 5 slots along with Snider and Elkhart.

You’ve been adamant in your critique of Sagarin and its warranted but I am sure we could come up with some sort of formula that combines SOS with points per game given up on defense.

Don’t tempt me, lol.

Agree with that for sure. In 6A Crown Point and Elkhart were listed tied for 1st in Defensive average giving up 8.30 points. Warren Central was in 3rd at 9.20.  F.W. Snider 4th with 11, Westfield 6th 13.20, Lawrence North 8th 14.90, and Brownsburg 10th with 17.40.

However if you look at the Offensive Average there are more teams  on the top 10 Offensive average that Warren Central, Lawrence North, Brownsburg, Westfield play than Elkhart or Crown Point. Yes they may have solid defenses, but their defensive average numbers are inflated by the fact they did not play teams with high output Offense. It draws out a little different perspective. Later I can see if I can compile Offensive average and defensive average of a few of the top teams.

Here are the top 25 according to Calpreps and their SOS and Opponents W-L.

1.) Lawrence North - Schedule Strength (30.4) / Opponents W-L (47-52-1)

2.) Brownsburg - Schedule Strength (41.1) / Opponents W-L (52-48)

3.) Westfield - Schedule Strength (37.8) / Opponents W-L (52-48)

4.) Warren Central - Schedule Strength (25.9) / Opponents W-L (51-46-1)

5.) Cathedral - Schedule Strength (37.8) / Opponents W-L (52-40) 

6.) Center Grove - Schedule Strength (39.6) / Opponents W-L (68-32)

7.) Crown Point - Schedule Strength (12.9) / Opponents W-L (48-51)

8.) HSE - Schedule Strength (37.6) / Opponents W-L (52-48)

9.) Franklin Central - Schedule Strength (40.8) / Opponents W-L (60-41)

10.) Ben Davis - Schedule Strength (40.4) / Opponents W-L (51-48)

11.) Fishers - Schedule Strength (39.4) / Opponents W-L (47-53)

12.) Carroll - Schedule Strength (20.2) / Opponents W-L (47-54)

13.) F.W. Snider - Schedule Strength (22.2) / Opponents W-L (56-46)

14.) Columbus North - Schedule Strength (23.4) / Opponents W-L (52-47-1)

15.) Zionsville - Schedule Strength ( 41.4) / Opponents W-L (54-46)

16.) Pike - Schedule Strength (35.6) / Opponents W-L (49-52)

17.) Lawrence Central - Schedule Strength (44.1) / Opponent W-L (58-42)

18.) Avon - Schedule Strength (48.7) / Opponents W-L (67-33)

19.) Noblesville - Schedule Strength (12.9) / Opponents W-L (59-41)

20.) Carmel - Schedule Strength (37.8) / Opponents W-L (60-42)

21.) Elkhart - Schedule Strength (12.9) / Opponents W-L (53-49)

22.) Penn - Schedule Strength (6.3) / Opponents W-L (51-52)

23.) Homestead - Schedule Strength (26.8) / Opponents W-L (49-53)

24.) Harrison WL - Schedule Strength (19.1) / Opponents W-L (59-42)

25.) Perry Meridian - Schedule Strength (15) / Opponents W-L (48-53-1)

 

[Cowboysfan03]

On 11/2/2024 at 1:18 PM, BTF said:

Indy bias Temp?

Warren has 5 games of teams scoring 0 points and has multiple games where they kept teams from under 100 yards total they easily have the best defense in the state 

Edited November 4, 2024 by Cowboysfan03

[FastpacedO]

54 minutes ago, Cowboysfan03 said:

Warren has 5 games of teams scoring 0 points and has multiple games where they kept teams from under 100 yards total they easily have the best defense in the state 

Out of likes I definitely agree

[Bash Riprock]

6 hours ago, FastpacedO said:

Agree with that for sure. In 6A Crown Point and Elkhart were listed tied for 1st in Defensive average giving up 8.30 points. Warren Central was in 3rd at 9.20.  F.W. Snider 4th with 11, Westfield 6th 13.20, Lawrence North 8th 14.90, and Brownsburg 10th with 17.40.

However if you look at the Offensive Average there are more teams  on the top 10 Offensive average that Warren Central, Lawrence North, Brownsburg, Westfield play than Elkhart or Crown Point. Yes they may have solid defenses, but their defensive average numbers are inflated by the fact they did not play teams with high output Offense. It draws out a little different perspective. Later I can see if I can compile Offensive average and defensive average of a few of the top teams.

Here are the top 25 according to Calpreps and their SOS and Opponents W-L.

1.) Lawrence North - Schedule Strength (30.4) / Opponents W-L (47-52-1)

2.) Brownsburg - Schedule Strength (41.1) / Opponents W-L (52-48)

3.) Westfield - Schedule Strength (37.8) / Opponents W-L (52-48)

4.) Warren Central - Schedule Strength (25.9) / Opponents W-L (51-46-1)

5.) Cathedral - Schedule Strength (37.8) / Opponents W-L (52-40) 

6.) Center Grove - Schedule Strength (39.6) / Opponents W-L (68-32)

7.) Crown Point - Schedule Strength (12.9) / Opponents W-L (48-51)

8.) HSE - Schedule Strength (37.6) / Opponents W-L (52-48)

9.) Franklin Central - Schedule Strength (40.8) / Opponents W-L (60-41)

10.) Ben Davis - Schedule Strength (40.4) / Opponents W-L (51-48)

11.) Fishers - Schedule Strength (39.4) / Opponents W-L (47-53)

12.) Carroll - Schedule Strength (20.2) / Opponents W-L (47-54)

13.) F.W. Snider - Schedule Strength (22.2) / Opponents W-L (56-46)

14.) Columbus North - Schedule Strength (23.4) / Opponents W-L (52-47-1)

15.) Zionsville - Schedule Strength ( 41.4) / Opponents W-L (54-46)

16.) Pike - Schedule Strength (35.6) / Opponents W-L (49-52)

17.) Lawrence Central - Schedule Strength (44.1) / Opponent W-L (58-42)

18.) Avon - Schedule Strength (48.7) / Opponents W-L (67-33)

19.) Noblesville - Schedule Strength (12.9) / Opponents W-L (59-41)

20.) Carmel - Schedule Strength (37.8) / Opponents W-L (60-42)

21.) Elkhart - Schedule Strength (12.9) / Opponents W-L (53-49)

22.) Penn - Schedule Strength (6.3) / Opponents W-L (51-52)

23.) Homestead - Schedule Strength (26.8) / Opponents W-L (49-53)

24.) Harrison WL - Schedule Strength (19.1) / Opponents W-L (59-42)

25.) Perry Meridian - Schedule Strength (15) / Opponents W-L (48-53-1)

 

Speaking of schedule strength...Center Grove ran into buzzsaw St. Frances Academy (Baltimore) last game of the season.  Just read where St. Frances drubbed IMG last week 30-3.  

[temptation]

23 minutes ago, Bash Riprock said:

Speaking of schedule strength...Center Grove ran into buzzsaw St. Frances Academy (Baltimore) last game of the season.  Just read where St. Frances drubbed IMG last week 30-3.  

I noticed this too...

[FastpacedO]

1 hour ago, Bash Riprock said:

Speaking of schedule strength...Center Grove ran into buzzsaw St. Frances Academy (Baltimore) last game of the season.  Just read where St. Frances drubbed IMG last week 30-3.  

Amen to that! I knew it would be a tough one for CG basically they were lining up against a college team. 

St. Frances Academy certainly didn't look like a team that should have 3 losses. They lost to Mater Dei (CA), and close ones to Duncanville (TX) and Lutheran (CA).

The Academy schools like that are a totally different level than Private schools here in Indiana. Surprisingly IMG has been on the struggle bus this year with some of the games they have won and the 2 they have lost. I definitely wasn't expecting St. Frances Academy to drub them 30-3. I bet it isn't easy being a coach at these schools. You are basically trying to bring a bunch of All Stars together to play as a team and it may not always work out too well.

[temptation]

5 minutes ago, FastpacedO said:

Amen to that! I knew it would be a tough one for CG basically they were lining up against a college team. 

St. Frances Academy certainly didn't look like a team that should have 3 losses. They lost to Mater Dei (CA), and close ones to Duncanville (TX) and Lutheran (CA).

The Academy schools like that are a totally different level than Private schools here in Indiana. Surprisingly IMG has been on the struggle bus this year with some of the games they have won and the 2 they have lost. I definitely wasn't expecting St. Frances Academy to drub them 30-3. I bet it isn't easy being a coach at these schools. You are basically trying to bring a bunch of All Stars together to play as a team and it may not always work out too well.

CG gonna be a tough out.

[FastpacedO]

3 minutes ago, temptation said:

CG gonna be a tough out.

Absolutely CG will be. With their passing game they can score quick and often.

As a matter of fact against Lawrence North they had opportunities and shot themselves in the foot allowing LN to extend their lead.

There is no way no how I am counting out Center Grove.

[Yuccaguy]

1 hour ago, FastpacedO said:

Amen to that! I knew it would be a tough one for CG basically they were lining up against a college team. 

St. Frances Academy certainly didn't look like a team that should have 3 losses. They lost to Mater Dei (CA), and close ones to Duncanville (TX) and Lutheran (CA).

The Academy schools like that are a totally different level than Private schools here in Indiana. Surprisingly IMG has been on the struggle bus this year with some of the games they have won and the 2 they have lost. I definitely wasn't expecting St. Frances Academy to drub them 30-3. I bet it isn't easy being a coach at these schools. You are basically trying to bring a bunch of All Stars together to play as a team and it may not always work out too well.

How I WISH that East Saint Louis (IL) would have defeated IMG a few weeks ago. 

[temptation]

1 hour ago, FastpacedO said:

Absolutely CG will be. With their passing game they can score quick and often.

As a matter of fact against Lawrence North they had opportunities and shot themselves in the foot allowing LN to extend their lead.

There is no way no how I am counting out Center Grove.

Yep.  I could totally imagine a scenario in which CG runs the table and steals the entire thing.