Muda69 Posted October 31, 2019 Author Share Posted October 31, 2019 (edited) 14 minutes ago, gonzoron said: Just opinions. Privatization rarely eases cost to consumers, or provide a better quality of service. Plus, it does not lower taxes. So you believe practically every means of production, from electricity to cars to cheeseburgers, should be owned by the government. Got it. https://liberty-intl.org/1988/10/privatization-providing-better-services-with-lower-taxes/ Quote ... Why does privatization lead to lower costs and more efficient operations? The fundamental reason is the difference in incentives between public and private sectors. A tax-funded government agency differs profoundly from a business. The former has a legally-guaranteed monopoly on its services (e.g., picking up a city’s garbage). It is guaranteed its revenues, regardless of performance. And its workers are protected both by unionization and by a civil service system which virtually guarantees continued employment and pay increases, regardless of performance. In sharp contrast, a private firm in a competitive market must win over its customers by offering them a superior combination of performance and price. If it fails to deliver adequately, its customers can go elsewhere. Like the prospect of being hanged, the prospect of losing one’s customers tends to concentrate the mind. Private firms producing public services – even firms which competitively win exclusive contracts for a number of years – therefore operate far more efficiently than government monopolies. This may sound fine in theory, but what about the evidence? After all, public-employee union critics make the charge that privatization must lead to higher costs, since a private firm will have all the same expenses as the public agency it replaces – plus the added costs of advertising and profits. The evidence shows overwhelmingly that the theory, rather than the unions’ claim, is correct. Every controlled study comparing public versus private service delivery shows lower costs (for a given level of performance) for private enterprise. This includes nationwide studies of garbage collection in the United States (1976) and Canada (1985); of fire protection (1976, Arizona); public-works services such as street sweeping, pavement patching, and traffic signal repair (1984, Southern California); transit services (1986, US); school bus transportation (1984, Indiana); airlines (1977, Australia); naval ship repair (1978, US), and many others. In these statistically valid studies, the cost of government services is typically 30-40% to as much as 100% higher than private services. .... Edited October 31, 2019 by Muda69 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DanteEstonia Posted October 31, 2019 Share Posted October 31, 2019 12 minutes ago, Muda69 said: So you believe practically every means of production, from electricity to cars to cheeseburgers, should be owned by the government. Got it. https://liberty-intl.org/1988/10/privatization-providing-better-services-with-lower-taxes/ You are putting words in @gonzoron‘s mouth. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Impartial_Observer Posted October 31, 2019 Share Posted October 31, 2019 14 minutes ago, gonzoron said: Just opinions. Privatization rarely eases cost to consumers, or provide a better quality of service. Plus, it does not lower taxes. Per the article I posted, what happens when the government entity, in this case the TVA, ignores looming problems with infrastructure until they reach a critical juncture? In the article the looming issues with their coal fired generation and increasing regulation from the EPA regarding coal generation. In the case of our local sewer utility, customers get saddled with sur charges. I just received the business sewer bill today, the sewer bill was $17.71, and the surcharge for our city's lack of preparation was $54.00. Forecasting future needs, dealing with infrastructure maintenance, etc., is where I see private utilities do a lot better job. I would guess the vast majority of government owned utilities are sewer and or water in local municipalities. Is there any infrastructure in the community that's worse maintained? And when either breaks, it's going to be a mess, right off the top of my head they had major flooding in Louisville a couple of years ago when a 4' cast iron main ruptured that was installed in 1892. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gonzoron Posted October 31, 2019 Share Posted October 31, 2019 17 minutes ago, Muda69 said: So you believe practically every means of production, from electricity to cars to cheeseburgers, should be owned by the government. Got it. https://liberty-intl.org/1988/10/privatization-providing-better-services-with-lower-taxes/ No, I don’t. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gonzoron Posted October 31, 2019 Share Posted October 31, 2019 (edited) 15 minutes ago, Impartial_Observer said: Per the article I posted, what happens when the government entity, in this case the TVA, ignores looming problems with infrastructure until they reach a critical juncture? In the article the looming issues with their coal fired generation and increasing regulation from the EPA regarding coal generation. In the case of our local sewer utility, customers get saddled with sur charges. I just received the business sewer bill today, the sewer bill was $17.71, and the surcharge for our city's lack of preparation was $54.00. Forecasting future needs, dealing with infrastructure maintenance, etc., is where I see private utilities do a lot better job. I would guess the vast majority of government owned utilities are sewer and or water in local municipalities. Is there any infrastructure in the community that's worse maintained? And when either breaks, it's going to be a mess, right off the top of my head they had major flooding in Louisville a couple of years ago when a 4' cast iron main ruptured that was installed in 1892. Indianapolis has had privatized water for over 60 years. They have the same issues. And it’s not any cheaper for consumers. And they pay the same taxes as people in other towns/cities across the country. If someone has verifiable proof that privatization of utilities has lowered taxes and expense to citizens, I’m all ears. Edited October 31, 2019 by gonzoron 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Muda69 Posted October 31, 2019 Author Share Posted October 31, 2019 22 minutes ago, gonzoron said: No, I don’t. But your quote: "Privatization rarely eases cost to consumers, or provide a better quality of service. Plus, it does not lower taxes." logically seems to indicate otherwise. Please explain. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gonzoron Posted October 31, 2019 Share Posted October 31, 2019 1 hour ago, Muda69 said: But your quote: "Privatization rarely eases cost to consumers, or provide a better quality of service. Plus, it does not lower taxes." logically seems to indicate otherwise. Please explain. Explain how cars and cheeseburgers were once exclusively made by the Government . I don’t recall that. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gonzoron Posted October 31, 2019 Share Posted October 31, 2019 1 hour ago, Muda69 said: But your quote: "Privatization rarely eases cost to consumers, or provide a better quality of service. Plus, it does not lower taxes." logically seems to indicate otherwise. Please explain. Perhaps you need to revisit the definition of the word privatization. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Muda69 Posted October 31, 2019 Author Share Posted October 31, 2019 12 minutes ago, gonzoron said: Explain how cars and cheeseburgers were once exclusively made by the Government . I don’t recall that. Nice dodge, gonzo. Try again please. Do you believe government could do as good of a job as the free market in producing motor vehicles and/or cheeseburgers? Why or why not? 4 minutes ago, gonzoron said: Perhaps you need to revisit the definition of the word privatization. I guess as much like you need to revisit the definition of one of your favorite words, socialism. 1 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gonzoron Posted October 31, 2019 Share Posted October 31, 2019 (edited) 3 hours ago, Muda69 said: Do you believe government could do as good of a job as the free market in producing motor vehicles and/or cheeseburgers? I answered this question once. I would suggest putting that government school IT degree to good use and determine why the answer didn't show up on your screen. Or you could just go home instead. And see someone about your vision. Edited October 31, 2019 by gonzoron 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Muda69 Posted November 1, 2019 Author Share Posted November 1, 2019 15 hours ago, gonzoron said: I answered this question once. No, you did not. You ducked, dived, and dodged. Like you usually do. All from the safety of your Hamilton county compound. And please, tell us about your government school degree(s). What are they in again? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gonzoron Posted November 1, 2019 Share Posted November 1, 2019 1 hour ago, Muda69 said: And please, tell us about your government school degree(s). What are they in again? Metal Model Maker from the U.S. Department of Labor. It's not an IT degree, but I did use the internet last night at a Holiday Inn Express. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Muda69 Posted November 1, 2019 Author Share Posted November 1, 2019 (edited) 19 minutes ago, gonzoron said: Metal Model Maker from the U.S. Department of Labor. It's not an IT degree, but I did use the internet last night at a Holiday Inn Express. https://www.bls.gov/oes/current/oes514061.htm Looks like you made good money in that career. Must have provided you with a nice compound, wonder why you even need your socialist social security check. Edited November 1, 2019 by Muda69 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gonzoron Posted November 1, 2019 Share Posted November 1, 2019 3 hours ago, Muda69 said: wonder why you even need your socialist social security check I don't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gonzoron Posted November 1, 2019 Share Posted November 1, 2019 3 hours ago, Muda69 said: Looks like you made good money in that career. I did at the time. I haven't worked in that career for 33 years though. But I always have it to fall back on if I want to take a drastic pay cut. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Muda69 Posted November 1, 2019 Author Share Posted November 1, 2019 3 minutes ago, gonzoron said: I did at the time. I haven't worked in that career for 33 years though. But I always have it to fall back on if I want to take a drastic pay cut. So you currently receive more from the government in the form of social security and medicare benefits than you ever did as a "metal model maker"? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gonzoron Posted November 1, 2019 Share Posted November 1, 2019 3 minutes ago, Muda69 said: So you currently receive more from the government in the form of social security and medicare benefits than you ever did as a "metal model maker"? No, I don't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Muda69 Posted November 1, 2019 Author Share Posted November 1, 2019 16 minutes ago, gonzoron said: No, I don't. ? So what is your current employment status? Or are you a Hamilton County Real Estate Mogul? Day Trader? Professional Sports Gambler? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
swordfish Posted November 1, 2019 Share Posted November 1, 2019 (edited) No matter the electrical provider, if you are not allowed to cut the underbrush away from underneath the lines, you will have a fire start when the high winds knock them down..... However - Goats saved the Reagan Library? Yep - Humans can't clear brush, but bring in some goats and turn em loose....... I wonder how much impact the goat farts had on the environment...... https://www.dailywire.com/news/a-herd-of-goats-saved-the-reagan-presidential-library-from-a-raging-wildfire/?fbclid=IwAR1WaZ8w4O2epwvbAyv3PyGPIJ1TCC4pJ3gq1QV17vM9LQwyyCLxuy1BOVc That’s right: a herd of goats may have helped save the Reagan Presidential Library. CNN reports that a “herd of as many as 500 goats” was given the run of a hillside, conveniently located between the fire and the Library, earlier this year. The goats ate all of the available vegetation in their grazing zone, creating a natural firebreak, and depriving the fast-moving Simi Valley wildfire of fuel. The Library, with the help of the Ventura county fire department, hired the goats from a company called 805 Goats, the Guardian reports. The animals munched through around 15 acres, creating a perimeter to protect the Library from wildfires. 805 Goats provides its services to a number of Los Angeles-era clients, including celebrities, and counts Selena Gomez among its satisfied customers. The firm charges $1000 per acre for its goats’ services. “We actually worked with the Ventura county fire department in May and they bring out hundreds of goats to our property,” Melissa Giller, Reagan Presidential Library spokeswoman, told a local news outlet. “The goats eat all of the brush around the entire property, creating a fire perimeter.” “One of the firefighters mentioned that they do believe the goats’ fire line helped them fight this fire,” she added. “They just proved today how useful they really are.” Although the goats provided an assist, of course, more than 700 firefighters were called in to contain the Easy Fire located to the north and west of Los Angeles, California, which burned nearly 2,000 acres on Wednesday and threatned 6,500 structures before it was partially contained. Fire crews on the ground were aided by “non-stop water drops” and a defensive fire line. “It’s a whole lot of fire trucks, a whole lot of heroes out here protecting President Reagan’s library,” John Heubusch, the library’s executive director told a local news outlet affiliated with CNN. “They’re doing a heroic job.” Reagan Library staff reported that Wednesday’s fire, which forced all but a skeleton crew of curators and administrators to evacuate to safer areas, was the closest the library has ever come to being consumed. “The flames are licking right up the hills, right up to the parking lot,” the Library’s executive director said. “I think the parking lot will save the library.” It is not known whether the goats who created the fire line emerged from the fire unscathed. The area surrounding the library is mostly farms and horse ranches and hundreds of head of livestock were evacuated along with the humans. The Easy Fire is only one of several fires raging through south and central California, forcing the evacuation of thousands of people and leaving millions without power. On Thursday, several fire departments reported, for the first time, that they were gaining the upper hand on blazes that have been burning since last week. Edited November 1, 2019 by swordfish Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gonzoron Posted November 2, 2019 Share Posted November 2, 2019 On 11/1/2019 at 1:50 PM, Muda69 said: So what is your current employment status? employed Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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