Can we please move the umpire?

[btownqbcoach1]

Kentucky moved theirs to back by the head official. There is no advantage to the umpire being stationed where is in the state of Indiana. They get in the way, in fact. 

Kentucky also uses 6 officials. 

[Bobref]

7 minutes ago, btownqbcoach1 said:

Kentucky also uses 6 officials.

And that’s why they can afford to move one to the offensive backfield. We use 5.

[btownqbcoach1]

3 minutes ago, Bobref said:

And that’s why they can afford to move one to the offensive backfield. We use 5.

I don't see why the size of the crew matters for moving the ump. 

The ump is in the way. 

[Bobref]

1 hour ago, btownqbcoach1 said:

I don't see why the size of the crew matters for moving the ump. 

The ump is in the way. 

Moving the U to the offensive backfield sacrifices certain coverages which a 6, 7, or 8 man crew can make up for much more easily than a 5 man crew.

[Yuccaguy]

4 minutes ago, Bobref said:

Moving the U to the offensive backfield sacrifices certain coverages which a 6, 7, or 8 man crew can make up for much more easily than a 5 man crew.

I will YELL to the hills that IN needs to go to a 7-man crew past the 2nd round of the tournament.  

I'm absolutely amazed that in some sports it's "published policy" to ADD officials once the playoffs begin, but with FB....  Well, it's 5-man for the ENTIRE tournament.  How's about having a Side Judge and Field Judge?  Of course this doesn't solve the issue that is being said via the U by @btownqbcoach1. 

But it is better coverage (IMO) than what we have now as the tournament gets further and further toward the Championships.  

 

[Bobref]

3 minutes ago, Yuccaguy said:

I will YELL to the hills that IN needs to go to a 7-man crew past the 2nd round of the tournament.  

I'm absolutely amazed that in some sports it's "published policy" to ADD officials once the playoffs begin, but with FB....  Well, it's 5-man for the ENTIRE tournament.  How's about having a Side Judge and Field Judge?  Of course this doesn't solve the issue that is being said via the U by @btownqbcoach1. 

But it is better coverage (IMO) than what we have now as the tournament gets further and further toward the Championships.  

 

I agree with everything you’ve said. Not only that, but adding two officials at the Regional level and beyond would give 48 more officials the opportunity to work deeper into the playoffs. Frustration with the tournament advancement process is a significant contributor to the decline in the number of football officials. It could be a part of a retention strategy.

The IHSAA has always taken the position that adding officials to work unfamiliar positions with unfamiliar crew mates, and the changes in crew mechanics that would be necessary outweighs any  advantage in better coverage.

[Yuccaguy]

5 minutes ago, Bobref said:

I agree with everything you’ve said. Not only that, but adding two officials at the Regional level and beyond would give 48 more officials the opportunity to work deeper into the playoffs. Frustration with the tournament advancement process is a significant contributor to the decline in the number of football officials. It could be a part of a retention strategy.

The IHSAA has always taken the position that adding officials to work unfamiliar positions with unfamiliar crew mates, and the changes in crew mechanics that would be necessary outweighs any  advantage in better coverage.

I am positive that @Bobref can confer to those of us who are a bit 'younger' the times when a 3-man crew actually was the 'norm' in IN Varsity FB at all games....including the IHSAA Championships...  Think about that?  

[Impartial_Observer]

1 hour ago, Yuccaguy said:

I am positive that @Bobref can confer to those of us who are a bit 'younger' the times when a 3-man crew actually was the 'norm' in IN Varsity FB at all games....including the IHSAA Championships...  Think about that?  

I don’t remember 3-man in V Football. I’m pretty sure all tournament games prior to 87 were 4-man crews. 

[Bobref]

1 hour ago, Yuccaguy said:

I am positive that @Bobref can confer to those of us who are a bit 'younger' the times when a 3-man crew actually was the 'norm' in IN Varsity FB at all games....including the IHSAA Championships...  Think about that?  

Hey, I’m old … but not that old. I do remember working 4 man crews when I started out. I became a Referee and crew chief in 1984, and we were working 5 then.

 

[Impartial_Observer]

37 minutes ago, Bobref said:

Hey, I’m old … but not that old. I do remember working 4 man crews when I started out. I became a Referee and crew chief in 1984, and we were working 5 then.

 

I began V in 85 and we were working 5-man. There were still a lot of schools only paying four. There were a lot of nights I wasn’t getting paid. 

[btownqbcoach1]

3 hours ago, Bobref said:

Moving the U to the offensive backfield sacrifices certain coverages which a 6, 7, or 8 man crew can make up for much more easily than a 5 man crew.

Maybe. But they are out of the way.  

[Impartial_Observer]

1 hour ago, btownqbcoach1 said:

Maybe. But they are out of the way.  

Tell any U something they don’t know. 

[JustRules]

The U in the offensive backfield is a LOT more work for the U. And a good U is already the official who moves the most during the course of a game. The big, slow guy who can sometimes get away being in the middle will NOT be able to work in the offensive backfield. Bobref mentioned the other big disadvantage to doing this and that is the gap in the middle. So much of the umpire's job is game management, using his voice after plays, talking to OL/DL/LB in the middle to keep the temperature low. That generally goes away because he's not there having those conversations. The U plays a key role in helping with quick passes in the flat or over the middle because he has the inside out view and a better look if those passes skip or are bobbled.

The only advantage to the U in the offensive backfield is the safety issue (it is very dangerous in there) and you can see the holds and hands to the face much easier from the offensive side. There honestly aren't that many holds in the middle though. They are usually on the edges or open field on kick plays.

To me the advantages weigh to the current position. The NFL would LOVE to move the U back, but they moved it for safety reasons, and they would not be able to reverse that because it would be saying they don't care about the safety of the U.

[btownqbcoach1]

7 hours ago, JustRules said:

The U in the offensive backfield is a LOT more work for the U. And a good U is already the official who moves the most during the course of a game. The big, slow guy who can sometimes get away being in the middle will NOT be able to work in the offensive backfield. Bobref mentioned the other big disadvantage to doing this and that is the gap in the middle. So much of the umpire's job is game management, using his voice after plays, talking to OL/DL/LB in the middle to keep the temperature low. That generally goes away because he's not there having those conversations. The U plays a key role in helping with quick passes in the flat or over the middle because he has the inside out view and a better look if those passes skip or are bobbled.

The only advantage to the U in the offensive backfield is the safety issue (it is very dangerous in there) and you can see the holds and hands to the face much easier from the offensive side. There honestly aren't that many holds in the middle though. They are usually on the edges or open field on kick plays.

To me the advantages weigh to the current position. The NFL would LOVE to move the U back, but they moved it for safety reasons, and they would not be able to reverse that because it would be saying they don't care about the safety of the U.

I just don't agree. They are in the way more often than they aren't, many of them aren't even looking at what they should be, only following the ball. 

I don't think they do a good job at all of seeing passes over the middle and they should basically never be calling PI. He can still have conversations with OL/DL with being positioned in a different spot. 

I don't believe the umpire or the NFL would love to move them back in the middle. 

Edited September 18, 2025 by btownqbcoach1

[Yuccaguy]

Yeah, no one on here is "this old"...  Sorry guys.  I was 6 then.  

4 officials..  ugh 

Edited September 18, 2025 by Yuccaguy

[Impartial_Observer]

13 hours ago, Yuccaguy said:

Yeah, no one on here is "this old"...  Sorry guys.  I was 6 then.  

4 officials..  ugh 

Thank god mechanics have evolved as well. 

[Bobref]

On 9/18/2025 at 7:26 AM, btownqbcoach1 said:

don't think they do a good job at all of seeing passes over the middle and they should basically never be calling PI.

The U is not primary on such passes, but simply provides additional help on a trap vs. catch play over the middle, since the back judge is often looking through the receiver’s back. He can’t do that from the offensive backfield. And the U should never be calling pass interference, since he doesn’t turn until the ball is passing him.

[btownqbcoach1]

1 hour ago, Bobref said:

The U is not primary on such passes, but simply provides additional help on a trap vs. catch play over the middle, since the back judge is often looking through the receiver’s back. He can’t do that from the offensive backfield. And the U should never be calling pass interference, since he doesn’t turn until the ball is passing him.

Well... you'd hope. Good crews, sure, that's definitely the case. 

I can see that, maybe, there would be an issue locating if a ball is trapped or not if you were to move him. But, imo, the positives would still outweigh the negatives. 

16 hours ago, Yuccaguy said:

Yeah, no one on here is "this old"...  Sorry guys.  I was 6 then.  

4 officials..  ugh 

I was -19

[foxbat]

On 9/18/2025 at 5:51 PM, Yuccaguy said:

Yeah, no one on here is "this old"...  Sorry guys.  I was 6 then.  

4 officials..  ugh 

I thought I saw Rudolph Valentino in on one of those plays.

[JustRules]

On 9/18/2025 at 8:26 AM, btownqbcoach1 said:

I just don't agree. They are in the way more often than they aren't, many of them aren't even looking at what they should be, only following the ball. 

I don't think they do a good job at all of seeing passes over the middle and they should basically never be calling PI. He can still have conversations with OL/DL with being positioned in a different spot. 

I don't believe the umpire or the NFL would love to move them back in the middle. 

I'll concur with Bobref that losing the ability for the U to help on catch/no catch is a big loss. They often have the best view on those and can help wings who don't have as good a view. If the U is a ball watcher, you won't solve that by moving them to the offensive side of the ball. They'll still be a ball watcher. I know for a fact the NFL would love to have someone there for help on both the passes over the middle and game management. They have tried to find a way to add an 8th official, but they can't put them in the U spot after publicly stating they moved away from there for safety reasons. And the U is constantly talking to the OL/DL and LBs because he's right there with them all the time. If he's 15-yards behind the OL, he won't have that opportunity. Especially the DL/LB. You don't realize how many conversations are happening there unless you are there. There are benefits to moving the U to the other side which is why some states have done that already with safety being a huge one. But from an officiating standpoint, it definitely creates a hole in coverage. That's the biggest con.