The Coronavirus - a virus from eating bats, an accident or something sinister gone wrong?

[swordfish]

I don't care where any of us stands on Covid - This is funny stuff......

[Muda69]

Without 'Much More Aggressive Shutdowns,' The New York Times Warns, COVID-19 Could Kill 'Well Over a Million' Americans

https://reason.com/2020/08/10/without-much-more-aggressive-shutdowns-the-new-york-times-warns-covid-19-could-kill-well-over-a-million-americans/

Quote

Without "much more aggressive shutdowns," a New York Times editorial warns, "well over a million" Americans "may ultimately die" from COVID-19. The paper does not cite a source for that estimate, which seems highly implausible based on the death toll so far, projections for the next few months, the gap between total infections and confirmed cases, and a crude case fatality rate that continues to fall.

Independent data scientist Youyang Gu, who has a good track record of predicting COVID-19 fatalities, is currently projecting about 231,000 deaths in the United States by November 1. The University of Washington's Institute for Health Metrics and Evaluation projects 295,000 deaths by December 1. Assuming those projections prove to be about right, the Times is predicting that the death toll will quadruple during the months before an effective vaccine can be deployed, which might happen early next year.

If we have a vaccine by April, for instance, the Times projection would require that deaths rise at a monthly rate of about 40 percent in December, January, February, and March. By comparison, according to Gu's figures, the death toll rose by about 19 percent in June and 21 percent in July. His projections indicate increases of about 21 percent this month, 13 percent next month, and 9 percent in October.

The expected tapering of the upward trend in total deaths may seem surprising in light of this summer's surge in confirmed cases. But according to Worldometer's tally, which is based on numbers from local and state health departments, the nationwide seven-day average of daily new cases, after rising above 69,000 on July 25, had fallen to less than 55,000 as of yesterday. And even as daily new cases rose dramatically in June and July, the nationwide crude case fatality rate—reported deaths as a share of known cases—continued to fall. The current rate, 3.2 percent, is about half the rate on May 15. There are several plausible explanations for that downward trend, including expanded testing, better treatments, and a younger, healthier mix of patients. But the decline in the fatality rate makes the death toll predicted by the Times look even less likely.

According to Worldometer's count, the current COVID-19 death toll in the United States is about 166,000, while the number of known cases is 5.2 million. But as the Times has noted, antibody research by the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) suggests the actual number of infections may be more like 52 million, which indicates an infection fatality rate around 0.3 percent. Assuming those estimates are in the right ballpark, a death toll of "well over a million" would imply more infections than people.

Although the threshold for COVID-19 herd immunity is a matter of much dispute, many epidemiologists think 60 percent is a reasonable estimate. If so, the maximum number of U.S. infections, even without any precautions, would be less than 200 million. That means the Times is assuming a nationwide infection fatality rate close to the CDC's current "best estimate" of 0.65 percent.

Even if the nationwide IFR turns out to be that high, the death toll imagined by the Times is feasible only if all the precautions we have taken to curtail the spread of COVID-19—including legal restrictions on social and economic activity as well as voluntary measures such as physical distancing, avoiding crowds, mask wearing, and hand washing—prove to be ineffectual. In other words, the Times seems to be comparing its policy prescriptions to a counterfactual "no intervention" scenario, which does not bear even a remote resemblance to the choices we are actually confronting.

More ramping up the fear from the MSM.  

[Muda69]

Indianapolis: City threatens $1,000 fines for first-time business violators

https://www.indystar.com/story/news/local/indianapolis/2020/08/11/indianapolis-coronavirus-what-we-learned-hogsetts-update/3343293001/

Quote

Indianapolis Mayor Joe Hogsett and Marion County Public Health Department Director Dr. Virginia Caine gave an update on the city's response to the coronavirus pandemic during a Tuesday morning press conference. 

Here's what we learned:

• Hogsett opened by saying “the time for warnings is over.” Over the weekend several businesses, he said, disregarded guidance meant to stop the virus from spreading. Hogsett said the sight of spectators packing venues without masks is “beyond discouraging.” The Marion County Public Health Department issued a Notice of Violation to the Indianapolis Speedrome on Monday after finding face covering requirements were not properly enforced and the venue "greatly exceeded" its capacity limit. 
• The mayor said health care officials are “demoralized” by what he called irresponsible behavior. Hogsett said he is “pleading” with all residents and business owners to follow public health guidance.

...

• There have been 406 complaints related to violating public health orders. Two citations were issued. Violations can be reported by calling 317-221-5500 or by emailing healthdept@marionhealth.org.
• The county will now immediately issue $1,000 fines for businesses and venues in violation of public health orders. “The education and warning period is over,” Caine said.

Nice. Heavily fining businesses that are probably already on the brink of financial ruin.

 

[Muda69]

Secret Gyms And The Economics Of Prohibition: https://www.npr.org/sections/money/2020/08/11/900895704/secret-gyms-and-the-economics-of-prohibition

Quote

My friend Evelyn is an immigration lawyer, and she recently had a meeting at a foreign consulate in downtown San Francisco. (Her work makes it hard for her to talk to reporters, so we're not using her last name). As she walked toward the building's metal detectors, the security guards told her she couldn't bring her backpack in, so she had to leave. She worried this would make her late, so she frantically began searching for a safe place to stash it. She walked down the street, and her eyes caught a gym storefront with one of those garage-style, roll-down metal doors. It was slightly open.

Evelyn ducked in under the door and noticed a guy in workout clothes conducting a training and a small group of other guys in the back using exercise machines. They looked "more lean, fancy fit than roidy, bro fit," she says. Evelyn was dressed in a work suit — you know, like the Feds — and startled everyone as she came in. She sheepishly explained she just needed a place to store her backpack, which put them at ease. But, with California outlawing indoor fitness centers during the pandemic, she also remarked she was surprised to see they were open.

"Oh, we're not open," said one of the trainers.

What Evelyn uncovered can only be described as a speakeasy gym. You know, illegal, hush hush, like the underground bars during the Prohibition era. These underground gyms appear to be popping up everywhere, from LA to New Jersey.

One fitness freak in Ann Arbor, Michigan, turned to Reddit to get their fix. "Anybody want a home gym partner or know of a speakeasy gym?" they asked — assuring readers in a follow-up post, "not a cop." "That is exactly what a cop would say," responded someone in the thread.

Welcome to the COVID-19 Prohibition era, when gym rats have gone underground.

Governments can legislate all they want, but prohibiting stuff with eager buyers and sellers is super hard, says Jeffrey Miron, an economist at Harvard University who has spent three decades studying prohibitions. Miron, who these days is legally working out in his basement, says there's a simple lesson that emerges from his studies: "Prohibitions don't eliminate things. They drive them underground." And that comes with a whole host of unintended consequences.

Take the case of Christina, a paralegal and gym enthusiast from Tucson, Arizona, who asked us not to give her last name for fear of being labeled a snitch. In mid-April, about two weeks after Arizona's governor shut everything down, she got a text from her gym's owner. She was a regular there, and the gym only had about 40-50 members, so she was friendly with him. He told her the gym was still open and she should come back.

Christina knew the gym was ignoring state orders. But, she says, "one of the few things that keeps me sane is going to the gym." She had tried to buy equipment for home, but she found it was either too expensive or impossible to obtain because everything was backordered. She's in her mid-thirties and fit and doesn't interact with high-risk populations, so she decided she was willing to take the risk and go back.

In late April, Christina drove to the strip mall where her gym resides for the first time in weeks. She used her fob to get in the gym's doors, and "there's over ten people there that I've never seen before in my life," she says. Her gym is tiny, about the size of a "one bedroom apartment," and this, she says, was over double the normal gym traffic.

"And these are the typical gym bros," she says. "And they're grunting and using all the equipment, taking selfies in the mirror, flexing their triceps. It's bizarre." The worst part, she says, is none of them was social distancing, wearing masks, or sanitizing their equipment.

This a textbook example of a classic unintended consequence of prohibition, Miron says. When markets get pushed underground, quality control tends to go down. In the case of drugs, this means potentially finding rat poison in your weed. When it comes to gyms in the COVID-19 era, it means potentially creating fitness environments that are even more likely to spread the virus than if they were legal and regulated. "When you drive something underground, your ability to regulate it goes away," Miron says.

Christina learned that these swole, maskless bros were refugees from big chain gyms like the YMCA and Planet Fitness, which had followed state orders and closed. The bros had somehow learned that there was still a gym open in town. In just a few weeks, Christina learned, the gym had more than doubled its membership. And, as the owner later told her, the gym was charging them all a higher membership rate.

Higher prices are another classic unintended consequence of prohibition. With less competition and higher risks in black markets, entrepreneurs can charge extra. The money-making opportunities of black markets lead to other classic side effects of prohibition: violence and corruption. "Disputes tend to be resolved violently because the participants in an underground market can't sue each other in state or federal courts," Miron says. Mobs and gangs function as quasi-governments that use violence to keep order and enforce property rights. But it's hard to imagine illegal gym operators turning to Tommy Guns and gang warfare to resolve their business disputes.

One difference between classic prohibitions and this new one is their duration. It may feel like an eternity, but it's only been six months since the COVID-19 Prohibition era began. Miron's research shows that the longer a prohibition goes on, the less effective it is. He and a colleague studied what the federal prohibition of alcohol did to booze consumption, using death rates from cirrhosis of the liver as a proxy to measure it (disturbing, right?). They estimate that at the beginning of Prohibition, alcohol consumption dropped sharply to about 30 percent of what it was before. But within several years, it shot back up to 60-70 percent of pre-Prohibition levels. Suppliers, he says, learned how to make moonshine in bathtubs and smuggle booze from Canada. And consumers got tired of the dry spell.

The longer gym shutdowns last during the COVID-19 prohibition era, the more likely people will evade them. And keep in mind it's summer. Come this fall and winter, millions of workout fiends in cold climates could have fewer legal options to exercise. Speakeasy gyms could have an even greater demand.

But Christina's story also shows the danger of premature reopening. In late April, the Governor of Arizona allowed partial reopening of the state, and on May 13, he extended the order so that even indoor fitness centers could open. The gym bros at her gym went back to their home gyms. Then, COVID-19 started surging like crazy around the state. And, on June 29, the governor issued an executive order that paused reopening, including re-shutting down indoor gyms and fitness centers. To Christina's dismay, the bros are back at the only speakeasy gym in town. It's really messed up her workout routine.

Capitalism will find a way.

 

[DanteEstonia]

12 minutes ago, Muda69 said:

Secret Gyms And The Economics Of Prohibition: https://www.npr.org/sections/money/2020/08/11/900895704/secret-gyms-and-the-economics-of-prohibition

Capitalism will find a way.

 

Or, AZ and Cali are stupid.

[swordfish]

1 hour ago, DanteEstonia said:

Or, AZ and Cali are stupid.

Interesting data from the CDC......So most people under 50 are more likely to die in an automobile accident instead of Covid, and school children are more likely to be struck by lightning that die from Covid.......so yeah......Am I missing something here?

https://www.technocracy.news/cdc-confirms-extremely-low-covid-19-death-rate/?__FB_PRIVATE_TRACKING__&fbclid=IwAR1E3I_VLzsAVKr78jBvd7g66K3cdSwNkgVx7Oln6YnaFnW6v9UnJtGZLC4

Most people are more likely to wind up six feet under because of almost anything else under the sun other than COVID-19.

The CDC just came out with a report that should be earth-shattering to the narrative of the political class, yet it will go into the thick pile of vital data and information about the virus that is not getting out to the public. For the first time, the CDC has attempted to offer a real estimate of the overall death rate for COVID-19, and under its most likely scenario, the number is 0.26%. Officials estimate a 0.4% fatality rate among those who are symptomatic and project a 35% rate of asymptomatic cases among those infected, which drops the overall infection fatality rate (IFR) to just 0.26% — almost exactly where Stanford researchers pegged it a month ago.

Until now, we have been ridiculed for thinking the death rate was that low, as opposed to the 3.4% estimate of the World Health Organization, which helped drive the panic and the lockdowns. Now the CDC is agreeing to the lower rate in plain ink.

Plus, ultimately we might find out that the IFR is even lower because numerous studies and hard counts of confined populations have shown a much higher percentage of asymptomatic cases. Simply adjusting for a 50% asymptomatic rate would drop their fatality rate to 0.2% – exactly the rate of fatality Dr. John Ionnidis of Stanford University projected.

More importantly, as I mentioned before, the overall death rate is meaningless because the numbers are so lopsided. Given that at least half of the deaths were in nursing homes, a back-of-the-envelope estimate would show that the infection fatality rate for non-nursing home residents would only be 0.1% or 1 in 1,000. And that includes people of all ages and all health statuses outside of nursing homes. Since nearly all of the deaths are those with comorbidities.

The CDC estimates the death rate from COVID-19 for those under 50 is 1 in 5,000 for those with symptoms, which would be 1 in 6,725 overall, but again, almost all those who die have specific comorbidities or underlying conditions. Those without them are more likely to die in a car accident. And schoolchildren, whose lives, mental health, and education we are destroying, are more likely to get struck by lightning.

To put this in perspective, one Twitter commentator juxtaposed the age-separated infection fatality rates in Spain to the average yearly probability of dying of anything for the same age groups, based on data from the Social Security Administration. He used Spain because we don’t have a detailed infection fatality rate estimate for each age group from any survey in the U.S. However, we know that Spain fared worse than almost every other country. This data is actually working with a top-line IFR of 1%, roughly four times what the CDC estimates for the U.S., so if anything, the corresponding numbers for the U.S. will be lower.

As you can see, even in Spain, the death rates from COVID-19 for younger people are very low and are well below the annual death rate for any age group in a given year. For children, despite their young age, they are 10-30 times more likely to die from other causes in any given year.

While obviously yearly death rates factor in myriad of causes of death and COVID-19 is just one virus, it still provides much-needed perspective to a public policy response that is completely divorced from the risk for all but the oldest and sickest people in the country.

[Muda69]

Scientists say the coronavirus is at least as deadly as the 1918 flu pandemic: https://www.cnbc.com/2020/08/13/scientists-say-the-coronavirus-is-at-least-as-deadly-as-the-1918-flu-pandemic.html

Quote

The coronavirus is at least as deadly as the 1918 flu pandemic and the death toll could even be worse if world leaders and public health officials fail to adequately contain it, researchers warned in a study published Thursday in the medical journal JAMA Network Open.

“What we want people to know is that this has 1918 potential,” lead author Dr. Jeremy Faust said in an interview, adding the outbreak in New York was at least 70% as bad as the one in 1918 when doctors didn’t have ventilators or other advances to help save lives like they do today.  “This is not something to just shrug off like the flu.”

Researchers compared excess deaths in New York City during the peak of the 1918 pandemic with those during the first few months of the Covid-19 outbreak. They used public data from the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention, the New York City Department of Health and Mental Hygiene and the U.S. Census Bureau to conduct their analysis.

The increase in deaths during the 1918 flu pandemic was higher overall, but comparable to that observed in the first two months of the coronavirus outbreak in New York City, the researchers found. But when taking into account improvements in hygiene, modern medicine and public health, the increase during the early coronavirus outbreak was “substantially greater” than during the peak of the 1918 pandemic, the researchers wrote.

“If insufficiently treated, SARS-CoV-2 infection may have comparable or greater mortality than 1918 H1N1 influenza virus infection,” Faust wrote in the paper. He’s a physician at Brigham and Women’s Hospital and an instructor at Harvard Medical School.

The study’s authors noted that their research had limitations. The researchers said it’s unknown how many Covid-19 deaths have been prevented since the outbreak began because of modern improvements in health care that weren’t available a century ago, such as supplemental oxygen and ventilators. 

The new study comes as the coronavirus continues to rapidly spread across the United States and worldwide. The virus has infected more than 20 million people worldwide and killed at least 749,700, according to data compiled by Johns Hopkins University. The U.S. has the worst outbreak in the world with more than 5 million infections and at least 166,000 deaths, Hopkins data shows.

The U.S. recorded more than 1,500 deaths caused by Covid-19 on Wednesday, marking the deadliest day for the country since the end of May.

A separate study published July 1 in JAMA Internal Medicine in July found the number of confirmed U.S. deaths due to the coronavirus is substantially lower than the true tally.

Those researchers found that the excess number of deaths over normal levels also exceeded those attributed to Covid-19, leading them to conclude that many of those fatalities were likely caused by the coronavirus but not confirmed. State reporting discrepancies and a sharp increase in U.S. deaths amid a pandemic suggest the number of Covid-19 fatalities is undercounted, they said.

The World Health Organization says there is no “silver bullet” for the virus and health-care workers will likely need an array of treatments to help patients fight the disease. Currently, many hospitals in the U.S. are using antiviral drug remdesvir, which has been shown to help shorten the recovery time of some hospitalized patients. There are also numerous vaccines in development with at least 26 already in human trials, according to the WHO.

Public health officials and infectious disease experts have often compared Covid-19 to the 1918 flu, which is estimated to have killed 50 million people worldwide from 1918 through 1919, including 675,000 Americans, according to the CDC. More than 20 million people died in World War I, by comparison. 

Dr. Anthony Fauci, the nation’s leading infectious disease expert, has said the coronavirus is a “pandemic of historic proportions” and history books will likely compare it to 1918. He has mentioned the “extreme” range of symptoms people can experience after contracting the virus, including pediatric multisystem inflammatory syndrome. PMIS is a rare inflammatory condition found in children with Covid-19 that’s similar to Kawasaki syndrome and has caused neurological damage in some kids.

“We learn things every week,” he said on July 13.

The researchers of the new study said their findings may help officials contextualize the unusual magnitude of the Covid-19 pandemic and “lead to more prudent policies that may help decrease transmission.”

Ramp up the fear!

 

[swordfish]

1 hour ago, Muda69 said:

Public health officials and infectious disease experts have often compared Covid-19 to the 1918 flu, which is estimated to have killed 50 million people worldwide from 1918 through 1919, including 675,000 Americans, according to the CDC. More than 20 million people died in World War I, by comparison. 

Hold the phone - today:  751,000 global deaths, 166,000 US deaths (using questionable death numbers)..........Compared to 50,000,000 (+) globally, and 675,000 US........

Really.....?

SMH.......socially distant of course.....and with a mask on.....alone in my office........

[Impartial_Observer]

On 8/11/2020 at 11:26 AM, Muda69 said:

Indianapolis: City threatens $1,000 fines for first-time business violators

https://www.indystar.com/story/news/local/indianapolis/2020/08/11/indianapolis-coronavirus-what-we-learned-hogsetts-update/3343293001/

Nice. Heavily fining businesses that are probably already on the brink of financial ruin.

 

Meanwhile armed thugs are detouring traffic in downtown Indianapolis in broad daylight. Another record year cooking for homicides in Indy, the streets still suck.......

Boss Hog is quickly destroying 50 years of brilliant vision, hard work, and an awesome downtown. Such a tragic waste. 

Mrs. IO and I usually spend a weekend out downtown every couple of months, stay downtown, have a couple of nice meals, see a comedy show, enjoy a walk on the canal, just enjoy the vibe. I don't see that happening any time soon. 

[Guest]

1 hour ago, Impartial_Observer said:

Meanwhile armed thugs are detouring traffic in downtown Indianapolis in broad daylight. Another record year cooking for homicides in Indy, the streets still suck.......

Boss Hog is quickly destroying 50 years of brilliant vision, hard work, and an awesome downtown. Such a tragic waste. 

Mrs. IO and I usually spend a weekend out downtown every couple of months, stay downtown, have a couple of nice meals, see a comedy show, enjoy a walk on the canal, just enjoy the vibe. I don't see that happening any time soon. 

Armed “protesters”...get it right.

[Howe]

Perhaps Hogsett will come to the manufacturing plant where I work and have the police enforce the mandatory mask and social distance policy on 800 - 900 union workers who refuse to wear masks or social distance. The workers and the union have already told the company to go piss up a rope. They will tell Hogsett or any police officer the same.

Our plant had 5 people test positive for the coronavirus about 11 weeks ago. We have had no one test positive since.

[DanteEstonia]

4 hours ago, Impartial_Observer said:

Meanwhile armed thugs are detouring traffic in downtown Indianapolis in broad daylight.

Do you have photographic proof?

[Impartial_Observer]

2 hours ago, DanteEstonia said:

Do you have photographic proof?

You’re really disappointing me Scooter, for someone who proclaims to have his finger on the pulse of all things Indiana, how can I ever trust any more of your game/conference alignment scenarios?

https://www.indystar.com/story/news/crime/2020/08/10/impd-investigates-incident-between-armed-protesters-pickup-truck/3334159001/

If you’re as good as you think you are, a little simple searching on social media, you can find Tony the Tiger and his real identity.

[DanteEstonia]

9 hours ago, Impartial_Observer said:

You’re really disappointing me Scooter, for someone who proclaims to have his finger on the pulse of all things Indiana, how can I ever trust any more of your game/conference alignment scenarios?

https://www.indystar.com/story/news/crime/2020/08/10/impd-investigates-incident-between-armed-protesters-pickup-truck/3334159001/

If you’re as good as you think you are, a little simple searching on social media, you can find Tony the Tiger and his real identity.

Well, Daffy, I like this reason here-

Quote

Indy10 Black Lives Matter said in a Facebook post Sunday that its security team members were protecting the marchers after the driver "attempted to hit us."

"The past several months protest(ers) have either been killed or hit by cars, because of this reason we have armed security," Indy10 Black Lives Matter said in the post.

 

[swordfish]

Yeah, really peaceful protests in Indy......Drive around, see for yourself all the boarded-up businesses, the destroyed properties that the BLM protesters/rioters had nothing to do with.......

[Muda69]

A little drive around downtown Portland:

 

[Impartial_Observer]

1 hour ago, DanteEstonia said:

Well, Daffy, I like this reason here-

 

Back to my original post, “armed thugs detouring traffic”.

The “protest” had no permits, no reasoning whatsoever ever to shut down Meridian Street on a Thursday afternoon. Yet they have armed thugs to force law abiding citizens going about their business into a life threatening position. This is Meridian and 9th, an area IO as well as I’m sure many others access frequently. My son works a few blocks north on Meridian.

Boss Hog in his attempt to be as woke as other big city mayors, refuses to deal with it. He’s ordered IMPD to stand down leading to widespread looting in the downtown area. Pressure from many concerned citizens late last week lead to the investigation into this incident.

Boss Hog and his minions can stick their head in the sand and play woke all they want, but this is going to lead to bloodshed, as it already has. Sooner or later there will be armed people looking for an altercation heading downtown to confront these thugs, people who actually know how to use firearms. 

If you want to protest, go to the courthouse lawn, go to the city/county building, go to the state house, go to the governor’s mansion and knock yourself out. Carry guns, long guns on slings, knives, whatever you want. But you do not have the right to disrupt people living their lives or destroy their property. 

Edited August 14, 2020 by Impartial_Observer

[DanteEstonia]

35 minutes ago, Impartial_Observer said:

Back to my original post, “armed thugs detouring traffic”.

The “protest” had no permits, no reasoning whatsoever ever to shut down Meridian Street on a Thursday afternoon. Yet they have armed thugs to force law abiding citizens going about their business into a life threatening position. This is Meridian and 9th, an area IO as well as I’m sure many others access frequently. My son works a few blocks north on Meridian.

Boss Hog in his attempt to be as woke as other big city mayors, refuses to deal with it. He’s ordered IMPD to stand down leading to widespread looting in the downtown area. Pressure from many concerned citizens late last week lead to the investigation into this incident.

Boss Hog and his minions can stick their head in the sand and play woke all they want, but this is going to lead to bloodshed, as it already has. Sooner or later there will be armed people looking for an altercation heading downtown to confront these thugs, people who actually know how to use firearms. 

If you want to protest, go to the courthouse lawn, go to the city/county building, go to the state house, go to the governor’s mansion and knock yourself out. Carry guns, long guns on slings, knives, whatever you want. But you do not have the right to disrupt people living their lives or destroy their property. 

Well, Daffy, had a trashy Southerner tried to plow into me, I'd pack heat as well. 

[Impartial_Observer]

20 minutes ago, DanteEstonia said:

Well, Daffy, had a trashy Southerner tried to plow into me, I'd pack heat as well. 

Your feeble attempts to yank my chain are noted, nothing sadder than someone trying to be a smartass and not quite pulling it off, but do you have anything of value to add to the discussion? 

[swordfish]

1 hour ago, Impartial_Observer said:

Back to my original post, “armed thugs detouring traffic”.

The “protest” had no permits, no reasoning whatsoever ever to shut down Meridian Street on a Thursday afternoon. Yet they have armed thugs to force law abiding citizens going about their business into a life threatening position. This is Meridian and 9th, an area IO as well as I’m sure many others access frequently. My son works a few blocks north on Meridian.

Boss Hog in his attempt to be as woke as other big city mayors, refuses to deal with it. He’s ordered IMPD to stand down leading to widespread looting in the downtown area. Pressure from many concerned citizens late last week lead to the investigation into this incident.

Boss Hog and his minions can stick their head in the sand and play woke all they want, but this is going to lead to bloodshed, as it already has. Sooner or later there will be armed people looking for an altercation heading downtown to confront these thugs, people who actually know how to use firearms. 

If you want to protest, go to the courthouse lawn, go to the city/county building, go to the state house, go to the governor’s mansion and knock yourself out. Carry guns, long guns on slings, knives, whatever you want. But you do not have the right to disrupt people living their lives or destroy their property. 

Terrorists don't get permits IO.......

[DanteEstonia]

17 minutes ago, Impartial_Observer said:

Your feeble attempts to yank my chain are noted, nothing sadder than someone trying to be a smartass and not quite pulling it off, but do you have anything of value to add to the discussion? 

I have more to add than you, and your deflections. 

Cry me a river that people had to deal with protestors, pigs are killing innocent civilians. 

2 minutes ago, swordfish said:

Terrorists don't get permits IO.......

But the Klan does-

https://dailyprogress.com/news/local/city-says-permit-will-only-be-ok-d-if-rally/article_29f8e566-7baa-11e7-906d-63c9ea503128.html

[Muda69]

West Lafayette mask mandate challenge heads to Aug. 25 court date

https://www.jconline.com/story/news/2020/08/14/covid-indiana-west-lafayette-mask-mandate-challenge-heads-aug-25-court-date/3368663001/

Quote

A Tippecanoe County judge on Friday said he wanted to move as quickly possible to sort through the questions raised in a West Lafayette man’s lawsuit challenging a mandatory mask order issued July 9 by Mayor John Dennis to help stop the spread of the coronavirus.

Tippecanoe Circuit Judge Sean Persin, during a Friday morning update on a case brought by West Lafayette resident Michael Bryant, set aside a rare evening hearing for Aug. 25 to get arguments from Bryant and the city’s attorneys.

Bryant filed his lawsuit July 22, claiming he wasn’t looking “to reach a conclusion on the effectiveness of mask-wearing.” His claim did question whether mask orders will play a role in curbing the spread of coronavirus.

Bryant argued, though, that Dennis was out of line to issue a mandate without having the West Lafayette City Council considering an ordinance. Bryant claimed that the mayor’s mandate gave him little room to argue against it in a public forum – even more so after it was in effect, because he’d face police intervention and fines if he spoke out without a mask on.

“One man’s opinion should not dictate whether a mask-wearing mandate is rationally related to the goal of preventing the spread,” the lawsuit claims. “A public health emergency should not open the door for any government entity to infringe on individuals’ constitutional and civil rights.”

At every turn since issuing it, Dennis has defended the mandate, which carries a $100 fine for first offenses. Dennis said no fines or citations have been issued in connection with the mask mandate

Eric Burns, the city’s attorney, said that defense hadn’t changed.

 

Burns told Persin that Dennis would submit a formal response Wednesday, the last day possible.

“The important thing is that the mayor balanced a genuine need for the public’s safety and constitutional rights,” Burns said after Friday’s hearing. “It was carefully crafted, and we feel confident in the outcome.”

....

 

[swordfish]

2 hours ago, DanteEstonia said:

But the Klan does-

https://dailyprogress.com/news/local/city-says-permit-will-only-be-ok-d-if-rally/article_29f8e566-7baa-11e7-906d-63c9ea503128.html

What is your point?  

Edited August 14, 2020 by swordfish

[Impartial_Observer]

24 minutes ago, swordfish said:

What is your point?  

To deflect from the subject at hand. 

[swordfish]