DTs Dandy Dozen - Hopes and Expectations for the Future

[Guest]

1. I hope that eventually The GID will return to the civility of its past, when we had great fights and arguments and defended our ground, but we respected each other and each other’s position.  Tim Adams was a kind, sweet and gentle giant.  His mere presence here kept things in check, and out of respect for Tim and his commitment to The GID, we also had respect for the forum.  I am hopeful, and confident, that those days will return.

2. I am hopeful that once the dust clears, and everybody’s ego is checked at the door, that Center Grove will reengage with The HCC and be unanimously voted in.  An entity as valuable as CGHS simply cannot be left to wallow in the uncertainty of independence, like BYU has done at the college level for the past decade.  Cg is a school hat appreciates all that conference membership provides.  I’m confident they will wind up right where they belong.

3. While no expert on Southern Indiana football, as I have been told on several occasions, Im hopeful that Vincennes makes a smooth exit from The SIAC and lands either in The WIC or the The PAC, whichever they feel is best for them.  I also feel independence fits this school well, given its location, historical relevance and reputation, and competitive profile.  

4. I've had the opportunity to interview hundreds of Indiana high school football coaches throughout the state, and I can’t begin to tell you how impressed I am with the group as a whole.  Sharp, aggressive, intuitive, competitive, thoughtful.  All these traits come to mind when I think of the young coaches coming up through the ranks. There is lots of talent out there, the cupboard is full, and that portends good things for the future of prep football in this state.

5. One of the things I enjoy the most about how we do things in Indiana is our focus on the conference and how important it is in the overall scheme of things.  Conferences don't mean much in Ohio, Kentucky, Michigan and Illinois.  Here in Indiana, they are everything.  Can you imagine a world where we would do away with conferences and go to a district model where everything was focused on playoff positioning?  Nearly every coach we have interviewed has posted the conference championship as his team’s primary goal.  Truth is , 10 to 15% of Indiana high school football programs are state title contenders.  The other 85% are playing for a conference championship.  Hopefully that will never change in our state.

6. I'd like to see Kevin O'Shea take over at Roncalli.  It seems like the logical move.

7. I'd nominate Travis Nolting of Greenfield Central as the coach best suited to turn around a broken, ailing high school football program.  GC is coming on strong and will further strengthen the Hoosier Heritage Conference's reputation throughout the state.

8. I believe its time for Warsaw to put on its big boy pants and jump to The Summit in Fort Wayne.  WCHS will NOT reach its goals of being a 6A state wide contender if it remains in The NLC.  I've read and heard all the arguments.  Fort Wayne is a 49 minute bus ride from Warsaw.  Goshen, Northridge, Concord and Mishawaka are all similar drive times.  Plymouth, Wawasee, and Northwood are all closer to 30 minutes, and those 3 schools have half the enrollment of Warsaw.  You do the math.  Stay in the NLC and become the Penn of the conference, or join the SAC and dive into some real in season 5A and 6A competition to prepare yourselves for the post season

.9. As good as the PPs have been over the past 3 decades, we might be witnessing them currently at their collective all-time best.  The PPs managed their way much more effectively through the Covid crisis than did the publics.  PPs lost less classroom time, less practice time, and most importantly less time in the weightroom .  Ive had 5A and 6A coaches tell me that they have lost two years of player development time due to Covid related disruptions.  The gap between public and private has widened, if that could possibly even happen in this state. 

10. The best high school football program in the state of Indiana, pound for pound, is West Lafayette.  Great job Coach Fry and staff.  Would love to see the Red Devils jump to the NCC and test their kids against a consistently higher level of weekly competition. 

11. Indiana is producing more and more high level in state talent than ever before.  Our state university just came off a 2-10 season, including an 0-9 record in the Big Ten.  The current staff at IU is building its roster chasing after SEC and ACC leftover recruits in the Southeast, especially in Florida.  While Indiana is building a reputation as a growing recruiting hotbed for offensive and defensive linemen, none of them seem to wind up in Bloomington.  If we are going to continue to lose big at IU, lets lose with Indiana players.  Id rather watch kids from the DAC, MIC, SAC, NCC, NIC. NLC, WIC, SIAC, PAC etc , than a bunch of 2 and 3 star imports from Miami, Fort Lauderdale, Orlando and Jacksonville. 

12. Don’t forget to stop by and visit Hoosier Highschool Football on facebook, where we actively promote Indiana’s highschool players, coaches and programs.  Click the link and come on in!

https://www.facebook.com/Hoosier-High-School-Football-107360041590757/

 

 

[Footballking16]

7 hours ago, HHF said:

2. I am hopeful that once the dust clears, and everybody’s ego is checked at the door, that Center Grove will reengage with The HCC and be unanimously voted in.  An entity as valuable as CGHS simply cannot be left to wallow in the uncertainty of independence, like BYU has done at the college level for the past decade.  Cg is a school hat appreciates all that conference membership provides.  I’m confident they will wind up right where they belong.

Center Grove will continue to be at the epicenter of Indiana High School regardless of conference affiliation, which is the most overrated aspect of Indiana High School Football. Conference games are nothing more than placeholders on the schedule as conference championships don't guarantee anything past the regular season. A program of Center Grove's caliber can navigate as an independent and their availability for marquee games will be in high demand across Indiana and the Midwest. This will arguably make the Trojan football program stronger. 

 

8 hours ago, HHF said:

11. Indiana is producing more and more high level in state talent than ever before.  Our state university just came off a 2-10 season, including an 0-9 record in the Big Ten.  The current staff at IU is building its roster chasing after SEC and ACC leftover recruits in the Southeast, especially in Florida.  While Indiana is building a reputation as a growing recruiting hotbed for offensive and defensive linemen, none of them seem to wind up in Bloomington.  If we are going to continue to lose big at IU, lets lose with Indiana players.  Id rather watch kids from the DAC, MIC, SAC, NCC, NIC. NLC, WIC, SIAC, PAC etc , than a bunch of 2 and 3 star imports from Miami, Fort Lauderdale, Orlando and Jacksonville. 

That state university just pulled in its best recruiting class of all-time despite going 2-10 and finished in the top 20 nationally. Painting a picture that Indiana is pulling in 2 and 3 star recruits from Florida isn't accurate at all. Indiana is pulling in multiple 4 stars from Florida who all had legitimate SEC offers. I'd rather Indiana University put the best possible talent on the field regardless of home town. You've been a proponent for years that recruiting rankings and stars are the end be all in college football and now that Indiana is finally starting to recruit at a high level you want them to change? What gives?

[RetiredCoach91]

I have enjoyed your interviews with coaches around the state. I like to read about the experiences and factors that led to them being in their positions. One thing that might be interesting is to interview assistant coaches (coordinators) around the state that are doing good things. Might let the readers around the state get to know the assistants before they move on to become HC down the road. Just a thought! 

 

I too believe Center Grove ends up in the HCC. However, I think if this doesnt happen by Football season of 2023, then we will see a new conference formed with CG at the driving seat with schools from the MIC, HCC, and maybe even schools within conferences in that 1 hour time frame around the city. 

 

Everything I have heard about Coach Nolting at GC is good things! I think he is in for the long haul at GC, but I wouldnt write off the big name schools chasing after him in the future. I think it will depend largely on those big name schools preferred style of play, as he is a wishbone guy through and through (has success with it). 

 

You are spot on with your take on IU. They have to find a way to keep guys like Curry, Popeye Williams (just first two lineman from the current class that came to mind) in Indiana at IU. The 2022 season is going to be huge for IU moving forward. They have to find a way to get on track or the 2020 season is essentially a fluke. I root for IU football and want to see them succeed, but after last season, the 2022 is the make it or break it season to see if IU is going to work their way consistently into the top half of the B1G. 

 

[Guest]

1 hour ago, Footballking16 said:

Center Grove will continue to be at the epicenter of Indiana High School regardless of conference affiliation, which is the most overrated aspect of Indiana High School Football. Conference games are nothing more than placeholders on the schedule as conference championships don't guarantee anything past the regular season. A program of Center Grove's caliber can navigate as an independent and their availability for marquee games will be in high demand across Indiana and the Midwest. This will arguably make the Trojan football program stronger. 

 

That state university just pulled in its best recruiting class of all-time despite going 2-10 and finished in the top 20 nationally. Painting a picture that Indiana is pulling in 2 and 3 star recruits from Florida isn't accurate at all. Indiana is pulling in multiple 4 stars from Florida who all had legitimate SEC offers. I'd rather Indiana University put the best possible talent on the field regardless of home town. You've been a proponent for years that recruiting rankings and stars are the end be all in college football and now that Indiana is finally starting to recruit at a high level you want them to change? What gives?

13 of the 22 IU recruits are from SEC country (FL/GA/LA/AR/TX) 2 of the 13 are 4 star.  Rest are 3 star

Id rather lose with in state 3 stars than out of state kids.

 

 

[Footballking16]

5 minutes ago, HHF said:

13 of the 22 IU recruits are from SEC country (FL/GA/LA/AR/TX) 2 of the 13 are 4 star.  Rest are 3 star

Id rather lose with in state 3 stars than out of state kids.

 

 

The state of Indiana only produced nine 4* prospects to begin with, so if you expect IU to compete in the B10 then obviously they are going to have to look elsewhere for talent. Not sure what else you want?

https://247sports.com/Season/2022-Football/CompositeRecruitRankings/?InstitutionGroup=Highschool&State=IN

Edited February 9, 2022 by Footballking16

[Guest]

26 minutes ago, RetiredCoach91 said:

I have enjoyed your interviews with coaches around the state. I like to read about the experiences and factors that led to them being in their positions. One thing that might be interesting is to interview assistant coaches (coordinators) around the state that are doing good things. Might let the readers around the state get to know the assistants before they move on to become HC down the road. Just a thought! 

 

I too believe Center Grove ends up in the HCC. However, I think if this doesnt happen by Football season of 2023, then we will see a new conference formed with CG at the driving seat with schools from the MIC, HCC, and maybe even schools within conferences in that 1 hour time frame around the city. 

 

Everything I have heard about Coach Nolting at GC is good things! I think he is in for the long haul at GC, but I wouldnt write off the big name schools chasing after him in the future. I think it will depend largely on those big name schools preferred style of play, as he is a wishbone guy through and through (has success with it). 

 

You are spot on with your take on IU. They have to find a way to keep guys like Curry, Popeye Williams (just first two lineman from the current class that came to mind) in Indiana at IU. The 2022 season is going to be huge for IU moving forward. They have to find a way to get on track or the 2020 season is essentially a fluke. I root for IU football and want to see them succeed, but after last season, the 2022 is the make it or break it season to see if IU is going to work their way consistently into the top half of the B1G. 

 

It was my intention to go after some coordinators.  Will do that.

You cant fault a kid for choosing ND or OSU over IU, but when we lose all of the top guys to the power schools, IU football will simply never catch up.

The #1 player in Indiana this year, Kiyaunta Goodwin of Charlestown (6-8/330 OT) chose Kentucky over Indiana.  Joey Tanona of Zionsville and Austin Craig of Lawrenceburg chose ND.  Curry to OSU.  At some point, youve got to break thru     IUs OL last year looked like Ball State.  

[Guest]

9 minutes ago, Footballking16 said:

The state of Indiana only produced nine 4* prospects to begin with, so if you expect IU to compete in the B10 then obviously they are going to have to look elsewhere for talent. Not sure what else you want?

https://247sports.com/Season/2022-Football/CompositeRecruitRankings/?InstitutionGroup=Highschool&State=IN

The best thing to happen to IU football is the recent news that the BT is considering eliminating divisions.  Lets hope that comes to fruition and we can replace the OSU/UM/PSU/MSU gauntlet with regular games against NW/MN/IA/NE/IL. 

[Footballking16]

Just now, HHF said:

The best thing to happen to IU football is the recent news that the BT is considering eliminating divisions.  Lets hope that comes to fruition and we can replace the OSU/UM/PSU/MSU gauntlet with regular games against NW/MN/IA/NE/IL. 

That would go along way in bringing back some kind of parity. I agree. 

[Guest]

Just now, Footballking16 said:

That would go along way in bringing back some kind of parity. I agree. 

You must be off your meds.  You agreed with something I posted.  Call the Doctor!

[Footballking16]

1 minute ago, HHF said:

You must be off your meds.  You agreed with something I posted.  Call the Doctor!

Been advocating for years the imbalance of powers in the B10. If anything, the B10 screws itself in terms of playoff participation under the current setup. B10 championship game should be a defacto play in game for the playoff and in rare occurrences the possibility of getting two teams in. Current setup runs the risk of teams like Michigan/Ohio State/Penn State beating up on each other. 

[Guest]

1 minute ago, Footballking16 said:

Been advocating for years the imbalance of powers in the B10. If anything, the B10 screws itself in terms of playoff participation under the current setup. B10 championship game should be a defacto play in game for the playoff and in rare occurrences the possibility of getting two teams in. Current setup runs the risk of teams like Michigan/Ohio State/Penn State beating up on each other. 

The BIG actually uses reverse logic in this instance.  They purposely loaded the east to "ensure" that the conference would be repped in the playoff.  There have been many upsets, especially in the Big 12, where a big favorite has been knocked off by a lesser divisional champ.  Most BT title games have been blowouts.  There has yet to be an upset.  That is the way the league stays in the playoff mix.  

[NLCTigerFan07]

8 hours ago, HHF said:

8. I believe its time for Warsaw to put on its big boy pants and jump to The Summit in Fort Wayne.  WCHS will NOT reach its goals of being a 6A state wide contender if it remains in The NLC.  I've read and heard all the arguments.  Fort Wayne is a 49 minute bus ride from Warsaw.  Goshen, Northridge, Concord and Mishawaka are all similar drive times.  Plymouth, Wawasee, and Northwood are all closer to 30 minutes, and those 3 schools have half the enrollment of Warsaw.  You do the math.  Stay in the NLC and become the Penn of the conference, or join the SAC and dive into some real in season 5A and 6A competition to prepare yourselves for the post season

I really wish you'd stop pushing this. You are the only one who consistently does. I understand your arguement as to why it could potentially make sense for the Tigers when it comes to "preparing" them for a 6A state wide contender in football, but conference affiliations affect all sports, not just football. The NLC is a great spot for all Tiger athletics.

[Footballking16]

8 minutes ago, HHF said:

The BIG actually uses reverse logic in this instance.  They purposely loaded the east to "ensure" that the conference would be repped in the playoff.  There have been many upsets, especially in the Big 12, where a big favorite has been knocked off by a lesser divisional champ.  Most BT title games have been blowouts.  There has yet to be an upset.  That is the way the league stays in the playoff mix.  

An undefeated Ohio State/Michigan vs an undefeated Penn State in the title game all but ensures at least one team in the playoff every year, possibly two if the game is close. SEC has it figured out, it's why they've been able to send multiple teams to a 4 team playoff on more than one instance. 

The B12 doesn't have divisions anymore and has only had a title game in the playoff era since 2017. 

Edited February 9, 2022 by Footballking16

[Guest]

11 minutes ago, NLCTigerFan07 said:

I really wish you'd stop pushing this. You are the only one who consistently does. I understand your arguement as to why it could potentially make sense for the Tigers when it comes to "preparing" them for a 6A state wide contender in football, but conference affiliations affect all sports, not just football. The NLC is a great spot for all Tiger athletics.

So stay there for all sports and move to The SAC for football.  

Your goals and your tactics are not in alignment.

If your goal is to go downstate, you must change your tactics.

If your goal is to be the tallest midget, stay put.

 

[Guest]

13 minutes ago, Footballking16 said:

An undefeated Ohio State/Michigan vs an undefeated Penn State in the title game all but ensures at least one team in the playoff every year, possibly two if the game is close. SEC has it figured out, it's why they've been able to send multiple teams to a 4 team playoff on more than one instance. 

The B12 doesn't have divisions anymore and has only had a title game in the playoff era since 2017. 

Highly ranked texas and OU teams in the 90s and early 2000s were getting upset in the B12 title game fairly regularly, knocking the conference out of the playoff picture or the national title chase, depending on the format in play at that time.  The BT watched that closely and wanted to avoid that possibility when they ditched the leaders and legends for the East - west alignment.

 

[foxbat]

13 minutes ago, Footballking16 said:

An undefeated Ohio State/Michigan vs an undefeated Penn State in the title game all but ensures at least one team in the playoff every year, possibly two if the game is close. SEC has it figured out, it's why they've been able to send multiple teams to a 4 team playoff on more than one instance. 

The B12 doesn't have divisions anymore and has only had a title game in the playoff era since 2017. 

???  The SEC has divisions ... East and West.  The reason that they can send multiple teams to a 4-team playoff has very little to do with divisions.  It has to do with the fact that the SEC happens to produce stronger teams ACROSS divisions as opposed to them all bunched in a single division.  Of course, it also helps to send a couple teams when one of your schools has Nick Sabin coaching it and he can lose to an unranked team and still end up in the top four.  I wouldn't be surprised if Alabama skips the first half of the season and still ends up in the National Championship hunt.

[Footballking16]

3 minutes ago, HHF said:

Highly ranked texas and OU teams in the 90s and early 2000s were getting upset in the B12 title game fairly regularly, knocking the conference out of the playoff picture or the national title chase, depending on the format in play at that time.  The BT watched that closely and wanted to avoid that possibility when they ditched the leaders and legends for the East - west alignment.

 

Big 12 played in 6 of the 10 BCS National title games from 2000-2009. Not sure that was the problem. The NCAA ruled after the 2010 season that conferences must have at least 12 members to host a title game, Big 12 only had 10...go figure. After the 2016 season, NCAA came out and said there didn't need to be a minimum number of conference participants to hold a conference championship game so the B12 reimplemented one and did it without divisions to ensure the two best teams played for the championship game. B10 should follow or at the very least make sure Ohio St/Michigan and Penn State are in opposite divisions. 

[Guest]

4 minutes ago, Footballking16 said:

Big 12 played in 6 of the 10 BCS National title games from 2000-2009. Not sure that was the problem. The NCAA ruled after the 2010 season that conferences must have at least 12 members to host a title game, Big 12 only had 10...go figure. After the 2016 season, NCAA came out and said there didn't need to be a minimum number of conference participants to hold a conference championship game so the B12 reimplemented one and did it without divisions to ensure the two best teams played for the championship game. B10 should follow or at the very least make sure Ohio St/Michigan and Penn State are in opposite divisions. 

The Big 10s goal has never been to get 2 teams into the playoffs.  They are happy to have one.  Hence the stacked east.

Its all documented.  Do the research.

[Footballking16]

2 minutes ago, foxbat said:

???  The SEC has divisions ... East and West.  The reason that they can send multiple teams to a 4-team playoff has very little to do with divisions.  It has to do with the fact that the SEC happens to produce stronger teams ACROSS divisions as opposed to them all bunched in a single division.  Of course, it also helps to send a couple teams when one of your schools has Nick Sabin coaching it and he can lose to an unranked team and still end up in the top four.  I wouldn't be surprised if Alabama skips the first half of the season and still ends up in the National Championship hunt.

I know the SEC has divisions and they're balanced much more proportionately than the way the B10 does it. You have Alabama, LSU, Auburn on one side and Georgia, Florida on the other side. Imagine if all those teams were in the same division? It be their version of the B10 East and they'd have no realistic shot of ever sending two teams to the playoff and they run the risk of beating up on each other before the SEC title game is played. 

[DE]

1 hour ago, Footballking16 said:

The state of Indiana only produced nine 4* prospects to begin with, so if you expect IU to compete in the B10 then obviously they are going to have to look elsewhere for talent. Not sure what else you want?

https://247sports.com/Season/2022-Football/CompositeRecruitRankings/?InstitutionGroup=Highschool&State=IN

Move IU to the MAC for football.  They could dominate "MAC"tion on a weekly basis.

[Footballking16]

6 minutes ago, HHF said:

The Big 10s goal has never been to get 2 teams into the playoffs.  They are happy to have one.  Hence the stacked east.

Its all documented.  Do the research.

Well there's been multiple years they haven't sent a single participant. It would be a layup if they proportionately balanced their divisions. I don't think anyone has ever accused Kevin Warren of being a forward thinker. 

[NLCTigerFan07]

2 minutes ago, HHF said:

So stay there for all sports and move to The SAC for football.  

Your goals and your tactics are not in alignment.

If your goal is to go downstate, you must change your tactics.

If your goal is to be the tallest midget, stay put.

If I am being complete honest and realistic here, your argument would have a stronger hold IF the Tigers were already the "tallest midget" in the NLC, yet consistently falling short in the state tournament. That is not the case. In the last 3 decades, Warsaw has 3 outright NLC football championships ('90, '00, '01) and 3 shared NLC football championships ('92, '99, '20).

6 conference championships over 30 years makes you far from the tallest midget. As well, their postseason history over that 30 year period only includes 9 Sectional Championship appearances (including last year's where they had the "luck" of a double-bye into the game) with only 1 Sectional title ('19).

IF Warsaw was dominating the NLC year in and year out and consistently making it to a Regional or Semi-State level in the tournament, only to fall short, I would give your suggestion of the Tigers needing to make a conference change more credence. However, that is not the case currently. Adding regular games against Carroll, Homestead, Snider and Dwenger would be mildly more of an improvement over the current schedule. I do not believe it would truly add that much value.

Last year's Sagarin ratings as comparison between those 4 teams and the top 4 NLC teams (excluding Warsaw)

84.43 - Carroll
71.18 - Homestead
69.09 - Snider
67.32 - Dwenger
73.01 - AVERAGE

78.38 - Mishawaka
72.38 - Concord
65.77 - Northridge
59.06 - NorthWood
68.90 - AVERAGE
 

[TRCJunkie]

When comparing recruiting, we have got to stop referencing rivals/ESPN. 247's Composite rankings are much better, consistent, and more respected throughout the whole industry. 

[Footballking16]

1 minute ago, TRCJunkie said:

When comparing recruiting, we have got to stop referencing rivals/ESPN. 247's Composite rankings are much better, consistent, and more respected throughout the whole industry. 

I like 247 because it incorporates all of the recruiting sites to give a more aggregate ranking. 

[foxbat]

3 minutes ago, Footballking16 said:

I know the SEC has divisions and they're balanced much more proportionately than the way the B10 does it. You have Alabama, LSU, Auburn on one side and Georgia, Florida on the other side. Imagine if all those teams were in the same division? It be their version of the B10 East and they'd have no realistic shot of ever sending two teams to the playoff and they run the risk of beating up on each other before the SEC title game is played. 

Yes, but outside of Missouri, they are aligned by geography, not by anything that the SEC has intentionally done.  Going to the B12 model of a title game without divisions would be more in line with taking steps to insure what you are suggesting.  In reality, there's a better parity geographically in the SEC than there is in the B10.

It'd be nice to have two B10 schools in consideration, but let's be realistic here, I think the B10 would be happy to, consistently, have one team in that top 4 where the expectation before the games start is that the B10 school WILL be in the final game.