Don’t Let The Wording Fool You…

[temptation]

5 minutes ago, temptation said:

CG and Carmel may be moving on publicly which is easy to do because the MIC 6 aren’t a threat to them athletically in 90% of IHSAA sports.

I’m just pointing out/promoting the successes of two premier athletic programs on a message board about high school sports, that’s all.

Bet many of the football players also participate in other sports, no, lol?

CG and Carmel may be moving on publicly which is easy to do because the MIC 6 aren’t a threat to them athletically in 90% of IHSAA sanctioned sports.

Though in a bind right now, the MIC will will never be taken seriously again as a premier athletic conference regionally or nationally without Carmel or Center Grove…look at the once proud NCC.

[Grover]

1 hour ago, HHF said:

I understand Hoosier FBs point.  temptation has taken every opportunity to call out CG/CA victories over the MIC 6 since the divorce between the two, as if it somehow cements someones point of view or personal agenda.  It is what it it.  CA/CG are beating the MIC 6 in the country club sports and also taking them down in the pure athletic events.  We dont need to be reminded of this every time CG beats Warren Central 15-0 in baseball.  Is that outcome a surprise to anyone?  I dont think so.  CG and CA are moving forward with class and dignity.  temptation is the only one gloating on behalf of the two.  Just ignore it.

I don't agree.  When it was first suggested that CG & Carmel were interested in a new conference due in part to the lack of competition in most sports it was pooh poohed by many.  Then when the MIC voted to throw CG & Carmel out they made some very serious, albeit thinly veiled, accusations about the motivation.  Pointing out the scores of CG/Carmel vs the MIC is little more than reiterating the competitive imbalance and the real motivation for moving on. 

 

[temptation]

5 minutes ago, Grover said:

I don't agree.  When it was first suggested that CG & Carmel were interested in a new conference due in part to the lack of competition in most sports it was pooh poohed by many.  Then when the MIC voted to throw CG & Carmel out they made some very serious, albeit thinly veiled, accusations about the motivation.  Pointing out the scores of CG/Carmel vs the MIC is little more than reiterating the competitive imbalance and the real motivation for moving on. 

 

And many are willing to simply accept those accusations as fact and not hold “leaders” accountable for their words.

[Indiana Fan]

1 hour ago, Grover said:

I don't agree.  When it was first suggested that CG & Carmel were interested in a new conference due in part to the lack of competition in most sports it was pooh poohed by many.  Then when the MIC voted to throw CG & Carmel out they made some very serious, albeit thinly veiled, accusations about the motivation.  Pointing out the scores of CG/Carmel vs the MIC is little more than reiterating the competitive imbalance and the real motivation for moving on. 

 

I agree with you and temptation. However my thing is this, why didn't they just shut their mouths and stay in the conference and keep winning? Or at least wait until they knew they could for sure reach the HCC. There is nothing wrong with winning. I mean from a football standpoint, CG and Carmel (mainly CG) will have a very difficult time finding a schedule. The teams they will have to play are far drives and probably very talented. CG won't be this dominant every single year. I think it would have been better to keep winning and know you will win.

I am not saying CG will be bad, I just am simply stating that it now becomes a scheduling nightmare.

[Grover]

31 minutes ago, Indiana Fan said:

I agree with you and temptation. However my thing is this, why didn't they just shut their mouths and stay in the conference and keep winning? Or at least wait until they knew they could for sure reach the HCC. There is nothing wrong with winning. I mean from a football standpoint, CG and Carmel (mainly CG) will have a very difficult time finding a schedule. The teams they will have to play are far drives and probably very talented. CG won't be this dominant every single year. I think it would have been better to keep winning and know you will win.

I am not saying CG will be bad, I just am simply stating that it now becomes a scheduling nightmare.

Shut their mouths?  What were they saying?

[Indiana Fan]

2 hours ago, Grover said:

Shut their mouths?  What were they saying?

Figure of speech meaning complaining about the conference. I understand and get where they are coming from but if they were winning and had schedules I don’t see anything wrong with continuing that.

[temptation]

1 hour ago, Indiana Fan said:

Figure of speech meaning complaining about the conference. I understand and get where they are coming from but if they were winning and had schedules I don’t see anything wrong with continuing that.

Gotta challenge yourselves if you want to be the best and prepare yourself for the state tournament.

Approximately 15 of the 20 sports are an absolute walkover for CG and/or Carmel.

Gotta prepare for the future while winning in the present.

[Indiana Fan]

1 hour ago, temptation said:

Gotta challenge yourselves if you want to be the best and prepare yourself for the state tournament.

Approximately 15 of the 20 sports are an absolute walkover for CG and/or Carmel.

Gotta prepare for the future while winning in the present.

Carmel wins now. Do they need to win by more?

[Grover]

3 hours ago, Indiana Fan said:

Figure of speech meaning complaining about the conference.

Officially they weren't complaining about anything.  They were simply talking with other schools about conference options.  The ADs would be derelict of their duties if they didn't do that.  

[temptation]

1 hour ago, Indiana Fan said:

Carmel wins now. Do they need to win by more?

No, but see the post above.

Also,

Carmel 12/6

Ben Davis 2/3

Boys baseball 

[Guest]

21 hours ago, temptation said:

CG and Carmel may be moving on publicly which is easy to do because the MIC 6 aren’t a threat to them athletically in 90% of IHSAA sanctioned sports.

Though in a bind right now, the MIC will will never be taken seriously again as a premier athletic conference regionally or nationally without Carmel or Center Grove…look at the once proud NCC.

Warren Central and Ben Davis have much larger national reputations in football than either Carmel or Center Grove.  BD has been building their rep since the early 90s and the mid 2000s Warren teams were considered the states all time best run of excellence.  Neither CA or CG have approached either of the Big Two from a NATIONAL perspective.  

[Guest]

21 hours ago, temptation said:

And many are willing to simply accept those accusations as fact and not hold “leaders” accountable for their words.

Are there not social, societal, cultural and socio economic differences between the two sides in this argument? Didn't both sides revert to this notion at some point throughout the public back and forth?

[Bash Riprock]

53 minutes ago, HHF said:

Warren Central and Ben Davis have much larger national reputations in football than either Carmel or Center Grove.  BD has been building their rep since the early 90s and the mid 2000s Warren teams were considered the states all time best run of excellence.  Neither CA or CG have approached either of the Big Two from a NATIONAL perspective.  

??  The last 2 years of national rankings might just say different with CG gaining top 10 season ending rankings in all 3 national high school ranking groups.  The MIC big 4 have frequently been ranked in the top 100 nationally.

No argument of BD and WC's dominance in the 90's and mid 2000's respectively.  Saw both teams play a ton then.  But that was then....and not sure how much weight that carries today.  The reason for the constant high rankings of the MIC conference nationally is due to more than those 2 teams.

[temptation]

1 hour ago, HHF said:

Are there not social, societal, cultural and socio economic differences between the two sides in this argument? Didn't both sides revert to this notion at some point throughout the public back and forth?

Yes, boy one side was rumor and innuendo and the other attempted to present it as a fact…in writing.

[Guest]

5 hours ago, Bash Riprock said:

??  The last 2 years of national rankings might just say different with CG gaining top 10 season ending rankings in all 3 national high school ranking groups.  The MIC big 4 have frequently been ranked in the top 100 nationally.

No argument of BD and WC's dominance in the 90's and mid 2000's respectively.  Saw both teams play a ton then.  But that was then....and not sure how much weight that carries today.  The reason for the constant high rankings of the MIC conference nationally is due to more than those 2 teams.

Im talking cumulative reputation.  The Trojans are brand new to the national scene.  Carmel has never been considered an elite football school nationally.  BD and WC are the schools that put Indiana HS football on the map and turned the perception of the state towards football and away from basketball.  

Just now, HHF said:

Im talking cumulative reputation.  The Trojans are brand new to the national scene.  Carmel has never been considered an elite football school nationally.  BD and WC are the schools that put Indiana HS football on the map and turned the perception of the state towards football and away from basketball.  I hope we are not starting to rewrite history due to the events of the past few seasons. 

 

[temptation]

21 minutes ago, HHF said:

Im talking cumulative reputation.  The Trojans are brand new to the national scene.  Carmel has never been considered an elite football school nationally.  BD and WC are the schools that put Indiana HS football on the map and turned the perception of the state towards football and away from basketball.  

 

Cool.  Texas, Nebraska, and Florida State (BD/Warren) put themselves/their conferences on the college football map at one time too.

Baylor, Wisconsin, and Clemson (Center Grove, Brownsburg, Westfield) are the new blood.

Times have changed.

Side note:  Anyone else see that Texas had ZERO draft picks over the weekend? 

Yikes.

 

[Guest]

1 hour ago, temptation said:

Cool.  Texas, Nebraska, and Florida State (BD/Warren) put themselves/their conferences on the college football map at one time too.

Baylor, Wisconsin, and Clemson (Center Grove, Brownsburg, Westfield) are the new blood.

Times have changed.

Side note:  Anyone else see that Texas had ZERO draft picks over the weekend? 

Yikes.

 

I think you are writing the obits for these two programs rather prematurely. The CG talent pool takes a huge dip this season.  Carmel will continue to crank out its normal fair share of talent.  BD and WC will be back - with a vengeance.  Maybe not immediately, but definitely over time.

[temptation]

31 minutes ago, HHF said:

I think you are writing the obits for these two programs rather prematurely. The CG talent pool takes a huge dip this season.  Carmel will continue to crank out its normal fair share of talent.  BD and WC will be back - with a vengeance.  Maybe not immediately, but definitely over time.

Sure, you may be right.  Texas, FSU and even Nebraska could also breakthrough again at the college level but they now have to worry about teams (in their own conferences) that were an afterthought in previous generations.

The big four (Warren, BD, Carmel and CG) will become the big 7-8 by the end of the decade.  Some programs’ best days are behind them…others are well in front of them.

Edited May 2, 2022 by temptation

[Grover]

CG won the south 5 of the previous 7 years including 3 state titles.  It's not like it was just one class and graduation has left us decimated.  We won't be flooded with Big 5 talent this year but we'll still be pretty good.

[BTF]

Isn't Eric Moore getting up there in age? He's one of a kind, he won't be replaced when he retires. Center Grove will take a huge hit. 

[temptation]

8 minutes ago, BTF said:

Isn't Eric Moore getting up there in age? He's one of a kind, he won't be replaced when he retires. Center Grove will take a huge hit. 

Now THIS cannot be overstated.  I’ve long said that one of CG’s main advantages over those others in this thread is the coaching consistency that Moore has provided for 2+ decades and the way it’s been built from the ground up.

While Warren/BD/Carmel are replacing coaches 2-3 times per decade, Moore is simply proving his doubters wrong by reloading his machine.  The names change but the results don’t.

CG isn’t going anywhere as long as he is around and though he has tossed around the idea a few times in interviews, I actually think that the recent attempt to tarnish his reputation actually rejuvenated him and gave him more motivation.

Just a hunch.

Edited May 2, 2022 by temptation

[BTF]

1 minute ago, temptation said:

Now THIS cannot be overstated.  I’ve long said that one of CG’s main advantages over those others in this thread is the coaching consistency that Moore has provided for 2+ decades and the way it’s been built from the ground up.

While Warren/BD/Carmel are replacing coaches 2-3 times per decade, Moore is simply proving his doubters wrong by reloading his machine.  The names change but the results don’t.

Not to mention, there aren't many high school coaches willing to put the time in that he does at their pay scale. 

[temptation]

4 minutes ago, BTF said:

Not to mention, there aren't many high school coaches willing to put the time in that he does at their pay scale. 

You know what he makes, correct?  
 

Might not get paid as handsomely as some of his counterparts, but let’s not get ahead of ourselves here.

Edited May 2, 2022 by temptation

[Guest]

5 minutes ago, BTF said:

Not to mention, there aren't many high school coaches willing to put the time in that he does at their pay scale. 

Im sure Coach Moore is pulling down well north of 100K given his dual coaching roles and the high salaries paid in White River Township.  

Health is his biggest issue and concern and will ultimately be what pushes him to the sidelines.

[BTF]

3 minutes ago, HHF said:

Im sure Coach Moore is pulling down well north of 100K given his dual coaching roles and the high salaries paid in White River Township.  

Health is his biggest issue and concern and will ultimately be what pushes him to the sidelines.

And that's a good salary for most. I'm just saying that most coaches aren't willing to duplicate Coach Moore's passion, even at 100k. We all know that the difference between a winning program and a losing one is the amount of time and passion put into it.