HNAC Sectionals

[mumm6866]

5 minutes ago, SL816 said:

At this point of the season, and in this game situation, every member of the crew needs to be aware of any clock issues. 

I'm wondering how the "kneel downs" were communicated? Was the crew told "we're taking a knee"? Was the QB allowed to take his time, after this was communicated to the D? 

Uh? Why would the D need to be let know taking a knee? Does the offense tell them hey we are running power right before the run play… never seen or heard of that in my lifetime of playing and watching football 

[SL816]

Just now, mumm6866 said:

Uh? Why would the D need to be let know taking a knee? Does the offense tell them hey we are running power right before the run play… never seen or heard of that in my lifetime of playing and watching football 

Whether a team is taking a knee is communicated all the time in game ending situations. 

[mumm6866]

20 minutes ago, SL816 said:

Whether a team is taking a knee is communicated all the time in game ending situations. 

Then I’m sure it was as they took 4 of them. The problem started when the ref blew an early whistle when the QB wasn’t down yet. That started the events that took so long to figure out. They then replayed the down but Andrean coaches and fans didn’t seem to understand that 

Edited October 21, 2023 by mumm6866

[littledog]

35 minutes ago, mumm6866 said:

Then I’m sure it was as they took 4 of them. The problem started when the ref blew an early whistle when the QB wasn’t down yet. That started the events that took so long to figure out. They then replayed the down but Andrean coaches and fans didn’t seem to understand that 

All I know is that the radio guy was losing it at the end of the game when I turned it on. Lol

He was completed dumb founded by what was happening.

[mumm6866]

11 minutes ago, littledog said:

All I know is that the radio guy was losing it at the end of the game when I turned it on. Lol

He was completed dumb founded by what was happening.

As was everyone on Laville side as they understood! It was baffling how bad last 1:35 of game was! But on to next week! 

[Bobref]

1 hour ago, mumm6866 said:

Uh? Why would the D need to be let know taking a knee? Does the offense tell them hey we are running power right before the run play… never seen or heard of that in my lifetime of playing and watching football 

That is exactly what happens most of the time. The offense notifies the officials that they are taking a knee. The officials let the defense know, in order to minimize the possibility of unsportsmanlike acts. There is even a specific procedure in the officials’ manual on dealing with Victory formation.

[hondo17]

On 10/17/2023 at 8:33 AM, FarmerFran said:

Knox @ Lakeland- I think its a matter of when not if, the Knox Football team's weak schedule catches up to them... but its not this week.

Andrean @ LaVille- Andrean is not the same Andrean of the last few years, but their schedule has prepped them for the 2A postseason.

Winamac @ Central Catholic- Knights win big over the Warriors. Has Winamac gotten better or have they just hit the soft spot of their schedule?

Triton @ North Newton- Trojans get healthy for a couple weeks while they start prepping for Judson or Pioneer in the sectional championship.

Culver @ SCUM- Satellites win the rematch from earlier in the season over the lowly Cavaliers.

Caston @ North White- Taking the Comets here as they look for their first sectional win since 2020.

Pioneer @ Judson- The difference in this game to me is which Pioneer team shows up? Will it be the turnover prone, mental mistake team we saw last week, or the Panthers that were aggressive and confident the other half of the year? Judson is a well coached and quality team that will make few mental mistakes and take care of the ball. If the Panthers have 3-4 turnovers like they did last Friday they will be dribbling basketballs next week. As another poster mentioned, both teams were more vanilla than usual last week with the weather conditions, which suited Judson. I expect the young Panthers to come out swinging this Friday and win in a tight one.

 

 

I would say Winamac got much better, early on it looked like they probably wouldn't win a game and they won 3 and played North Judson very tough and played Triton pretty well for 3 quarters. I think the Pioneer/Winamac match up would have been much closer later in the year especially since Allen, Jones and Fox missed the first match up. The Warriors lose quite a bit but have some key guys return and with a lesser schedule (no laville and Knox, replacing them w North Miami and South Central+ switching North White with Frontier) could see Winamac win 4 or 5 games and start to trend upwards after 2024.

[Julio]

I thought that when you announce to the refs that you are taking a knee, you had to do so immediately as to not have the defense rush you.  If he ran around then the defense should have been allowed to rush the QB and treat it as an actually play.  I could be wrong, but I believe that is why the offense would let the defense know that they are taking a knee.

[Bobref]

4 minutes ago, Julio said:

I thought that when you announce to the refs that you are taking a knee, you had to do so immediately as to not have the defense rush you.  If he ran around then the defense should have been allowed to rush the QB and treat it as an actually play.  I could be wrong, but I believe that is why the offense would let the defense know that they are taking a knee.

Standard practice when the QB tells you he’s going to take a knee is to tell him “Do it immediately and hand me the ball, or I can’t protect you.”

[Oldschool]

Wondering why NJ is suddenly the favorite to win sectional 41 on Harrell website 

[Bobref]

Did some investigating and watched the Hudl video. Here’s what happened in the last couple minutes of the Andrean - LaVille game:

LaVille recovered Andrean onside kick, and had 1st down with 1:35 remaining. On the 1st play, the QB takes a knee immediately. On 2nd down, the Referee blows an inadvertent whistle. This was caused by the LaVille QB telling the R he was going to take a knee, and then taking the snap and backpedaling several steps before he goes down. This is a bad mistake, no doubt, but under the circumstances, somewhat understandable. But it happens, and any official who tells you they’ve never had an IW is probably lying. LaVille elects to replay the down. So, it’s 2nd down, but Andrean thinks the down counts and it’s 3rd down. This, despite the fact that the officials verbally instructed the box man that it was 2nd down, not 3rd, and the downs marker, which is on the Andrean sideline, is changed to 2nd down. Andrean apparently does not appreciate this. LaVille does another kneel down, then takes a delay penalty. On 3rd down, the LaVille QB runs around a little and then goes down. He does the same thing on 4th down, and runs out the clock.

From my review of the sequence of events, it’s apparent that nothing that the officials did affected the outcome. The crew’s performance over the final 1:35 was not optimal, but the real trouble started when LaVille said they were taking a knee, and did not go down immediately from “Victory” formation(after doing just that on 1st down). This led to the IW, which, in turn caused Andrean to lose count of the downs, despite what the officials said, and what was displayed on the downs marker.

Edited October 22, 2023 by Bobref

[mumm6866]

1 hour ago, Bobref said:

Did some investigating and watched the Hudl video. Here’s what happened in the last couple minutes of the Andrean - LaVille game:

LaVille recovered Andrean onside kick, and had 1st down with 1:35 remaining. On the 1st play, the QB takes a knee immediately. On 2nd down, the Referee blows an inadvertent whistle. This was caused by the LaVille QB telling the R he was going to take a knee, and then taking the snap and backpedaling several steps before he goes down. This is a bad mistake, no doubt, but under the circumstances, somewhat understandable. But it happens, and any official who tells you they’ve never had an IW is probably lying. LaVille elects to replay the down. So, it’s 2nd down, but Andrean thinks the down counts and it’s 3rd down. This, despite the fact that the officials verbally instructed the box man that it was 2nd down, not 3rd, and the downs marker, which is on the Andrean sideline, is changed to 2nd down. Andrean apparently does not appreciate this. LaVille does another kneel down, then takes a delay penalty. On 3rd down, the LaVille QB runs around a little and then goes down. He does the same thing on 4th down, and runs out the clock.

From my review of the sequence of events, it’s apparent that nothing that the officials did affected the outcome. The crew’s performance over the final 1:35 was not optimal, but the real trouble started when LaVille said they were taking a knee, and did not go down immediately from “Victory” formation(after doing just that on 1st down). This led to the IW, which, in turn caused Andrean to lose count of the downs, despite what the officials said, and what was displayed on the downs marker.

Mmm… seems like I explained this in my post that (had grammatical errors as you say)… even Laville AD said the refs messed up the last 1:35 but it doesn’t matter as Laville won and Andrean didn’t.. on to next week 

[Bobref]

10 minutes ago, mumm6866 said:

Mmm… seems like I explained this in my post that (had grammatical errors as you say)… even Laville AD said the refs messed up the last 1:35 but it doesn’t matter as Laville won and Andrean didn’t.. on to next week 

Plenty of blame to go around, which is usually the case when things get screwed up. The R should not have blown the whistle. The LaVille QB should have taken a knee when he told the R he was going to. Andrean coaching staff should have known the correct down. It’s high school football.

[Stoner]

1 hour ago, Bobref said:

From my review of the sequence of events, it’s apparent that nothing that the officials did affected the outcome.

Since it took LaVille five downs to run out the clock, I’m guessing Andrean vehemently disagrees.

[SL816]

2 minutes ago, Stoner said:

Since it took LaVille five downs to run out the clock, I’m guessing Andrean vehemently disagrees.

5 downs? Did you not read Bob's explanation?

After the IW, Laville had the choice, by rule, to replay the down and they did. The clock was reset to where it was at the start of 2nd down. No extra down was given. The optics weren't good, but the crew did nothing to take the game away from Andrean. 

[mumm6866]

2 minutes ago, SL816 said:

5 downs? Did you not read Bob's explanation?

After the IW, Laville had the choice, by rule, to replay the down and they did. The clock was reset to where it was at the start of 2nd down. No extra down was given. The optics weren't good, but the crew did nothing to take the game away from Andrean. 

Exactly… Andrean didn’t seem to understand the rules or what happened 

[Stoner]

6 minutes ago, SL816 said:

5 downs? Did you not read Bob's explanation?

After the IW, Laville had the choice, by rule, to replay the down and they did. The clock was reset to where it was at the start of 2nd down. No extra down was given. The optics weren't good, but the crew did nothing to take the game away from Andrean. 

Didn’t read about a clock reset (edit: sorry, I see it now)—if it was, then I understand.

Edited October 22, 2023 by Stoner

[FinePrint]

3 hours ago, Oldschool said:

Wondering why NJ is suddenly the favorite to win sectional 41 on Harrell website 

NJ sagarin rating went up by virtue of beating Pioneer. Triton’s sagarin went down after beating North Newton.  Judson is now rated higher than Triton. 

[from_the_sidelines007]

6 hours ago, Bobref said:

Did some investigating and watched the Hudl video. Here’s what happened in the last couple minutes of the Andrean - LaVille game:

LaVille recovered Andrean onside kick, and had 1st down with 1:35 remaining. On the 1st play, the QB takes a knee immediately. On 2nd down, the Referee blows an inadvertent whistle. This was caused by the LaVille QB telling the R he was going to take a knee, and then taking the snap and backpedaling several steps before he goes down. This is a bad mistake, no doubt, but under the circumstances, somewhat understandable. But it happens, and any official who tells you they’ve never had an IW is probably lying. LaVille elects to replay the down. So, it’s 2nd down, but Andrean thinks the down counts and it’s 3rd down. This, despite the fact that the officials verbally instructed the box man that it was 2nd down, not 3rd, and the downs marker, which is on the Andrean sideline, is changed to 2nd down. Andrean apparently does not appreciate this. LaVille does another kneel down, then takes a delay penalty. On 3rd down, the LaVille QB runs around a little and then goes down. He does the same thing on 4th down, and runs out the clock.

From my review of the sequence of events, it’s apparent that nothing that the officials did affected the outcome. The crew’s performance over the final 1:35 was not optimal, but the real trouble started when LaVille said they were taking a knee, and did not go down immediately from “Victory” formation(after doing just that on 1st down). This led to the IW, which, in turn caused Andrean to lose count of the downs, despite what the officials said, and what was displayed on the downs marker.

Appreciate the explanation and clarification!

Always easier to ask sometimes when you don't know.

Just one person's opinion.

 

as always, the game is better

from_the_sidelines007

 

 

 

 

[RingLeader]

4 hours ago, FinePrint said:

NJ sagarin rating went up by virtue of beating Pioneer. Triton’s sagarin went down after beating North Newton.  Judson is now rated higher than Triton. 

Judson Pioneer was once again tale of two halves

NJ scored 6-0

Pioneer scores 8-6

NJ scores 14-8

Pioneer scores 14-14

NJ scores 20-14

Pioneer has first and goal at NJ 6 with 1:30 left and crapped to bed and didnt score…NJ kneels half. Took sails out of Pioneer for sure. 
 

All NJ second half game over

It’s all about match-ups.  Don’t think Pioneer matches up well with NJ just as I’m not sold on NJ matching up with Triton.  Different style of play for strength/weakness determines match-ups.  

[FinePrint]

Sectional Semi-finals this week.  Who you got?

West Noble at Knox, 7:30 pm

LaVille at Whiting, 8 pm

South Newton at North Judson, 8 pm

Triton at Culver, 7 pm

Caston at Carroll, 7 pm

[FinePrint]

It would seem that West Noble / Knox is the only one with a questionable outcome this week.  But who knows...

[FarmerFran]

Knox

LaVille

Judson

Triton

Carroll

[FinePrint]

I think Sagarin is pretty accurate by this point in the season.  It's interesting to see that Knox is #4 in 3A, even with their weak schedule (for 3A teams).  West Noble is #15.  WN had to come from behind last Friday to beat Marian.  Knox handled Lakeland easily.  I'm hoping Knox has another good showing this week.  If so, they should take care of business.

[littledog]

2 hours ago, FarmerFran said:

Knox

LaVille

Judson

Triton

Carroll

All these teams should win fairly easily.

Knox could be the only "close" one if they decide to overlook WN since WN barely beat Lakeland earlier in the year. I don't see that happening with Knox feeling like everyone is disrespecting them in the rankings all year.