foxbat

I think that, on GID at least, this has always been something that all constituencies have been in agreement on. Kids that are unable to be able to participate should not be counted in the enrollment base. I'm pretty sure that DOE has the stats and ability to make that classification too. The only argument that someone might have on that is, "But what about that kid that's classified special needs, but can kick the ball a mile." I tend to say to that argument, that is going to be a rareity and, it's not going to change the overall landscape of Indiana football, so I think there really shouldn't be any real argument against adjusting those enrollment numbers to reflect the number of special ed kids that are in that population.

I haven't seen this issue play out. What I HAVE seen is not only private parents, but also some in the public sector that think that multipliers and automatic bumps and broadbrush painting are not the best way to solve a situation if equity is actually the end goal. I've pointed out before, as have others, that there are private schools that can't/don't compete at their "expected" levels due to the fact that they are p/p. Noll comes to mind. Faith Christian in sports like baseball and basketball. Likewise, there are public schools that have better facilities and opportunities than private schools. SF is a good start, but needs modification to make it work the way it should. It'd be better to focus on that and gain common ground, than squaring off into an us vs. them mentality and ascribing nefarious "motives" to private school parents who are against it. I bet that, if you polled the private parents and asked them to support a system where if you do well you move up and it was equitably applied to all, I bet you'd find almost no one that's "staunchly against it." Where you get pushback is when you get a "let just push everyone with * fill in the blank with some characteristic * in to the next level." Find common ground and you get much less pushback. I've been a participant and a parent of kids in both systems as well as a coach in both systems. I've worked with coaches in many programs to help them with their systems. I'm staunchly against multipliers and automatic bumps, not because I want more trophies or want to crush public school kids or anything else like that, but because it is a lazy way of approaching a situation that occurs when there are other, better, more equitable ways of addressing the issue. In all programs that I've coahced in, the one thing I notice about the kids dedicated to the sport is exactly that, they are dedicated to the sport. They work hard, they sacrifice like no nobody's business, they sweat hard, they hurt, and they bleed ... and that's been public and private. I hate when I hear folks say, in so many words, "Congratulations, but you really didn't earn it." Again, find a way to find that common ground and I'm on board; make it us vs. them and it becomes problematic. And, just for the record, of my five kids, three finished from Jeff, one is playing at Harrison, and the other will be at Harrison in a couple of years.

Put another way, that's over 14 yards a minute assuming your team held the ball for half a game.

The Diocese of Lafayette-in-Indiana spans A LOT of area ... split into three deaneries, from the Illinois border to the Ohio border. There are some 24 counties that are part of the diocese. Of interest though is that the diocese only has two high schools: the older, smaller brother, LCC, in Lafayette and the younger, bigger brother, Guerin, in Noblesville.

Depends on the density of the area. Here in Lafayette, there are six Catholic churches that service the Twin Cities. St. Mary and St. Boniface are just about five blocks from each other. St. Lawrence is about a mile and a half from the Cathedral. St. Ann is about a mile from the Cathedral, and St. Thomas Aquinas is about 2.5 miles from the Cathedral. Blessed Sacrament is the furthest ... about four miles away. All six feed into LCC as well as some of the other parishes from areas like Delphi and even Attica. Of course, those parishes also feed into Jeff, Harrison, McCutcheon, and West Lafayette too.

I believe that the rumor I'd heard is that Vlahogeorge and Keller attended Catholic elementary schools before settling at Jeff. Don't know if anyone can confirm or not.

People leave p/p education much more often for public pastures than I think folks realize. I've posted a few times on the p/p "break" points in education. A break during high school is less likely than the other break points ... after K/1st, after 2nd/3rd grade, after 6th/7th grade, and after 8th grade ... but it does happen and is more common than folks might think. In my experience, the flow OUT of p/p to public often nets out in favor of the public schools in terms of bodies. The main reason that you don't hear about it as often is that, in the scheme of things you typically only hear about it with sports, but I can almost say that for every one student-athlete that you hear that leaves a p/p in high school, I bet there are at least another 3-4 non-athletes that you don't hear about.

Some things in life are more important than football ... not many, but some.

Just tell them IO sent you. 😀

It's not that it wouldn't be a good idea, it's that, invariably, the IHSAA would put them both in the same sectional like they did last go-round ... that's why Chatard's back down in 3A this season.

Harrison and Whiteland are likely to be 6A by 2024. At least Harrison would be. Harrison would have been 6A this go-round except for Cathedral being bumped to 6A. Sectional 28 ... 4A version.

Interesting proposal, but would likely be problematic at many of the smaller schools since many of them, while supportive of the football program, are probably anxiously awaiting about half of their basketball team as the post-season wanes away.

When I said "monitor" I was referring to the current SF system which provides an automatic passive "monitoring" in the sense that, if teams are cutting it, then they stay up and, if they aren't they drop back down. In that situation, all teams have the same application. I don't see segregation as a perfect solution. I think SF is a step in the right direction to making a system that doesn't need to look at classifications like p/p or public and instead focuses on success. The issue with SF, in its current incarnation, is that the cycle is too short and that ends up 1) focusing on short-term activity rather than a longer-term implication, 2) provides yo-yoing which gives the appearance of not working, 3) realistically, and this is tied to item 1, tends to impose penalties on future teams for current team success as opposed to focusing on a program's overall success. Also, you can add in the "invisible hand" of the IHSAA in doing things like, when Chatard bumps up, sticking them in a head-to-head sectional with Roncalli in an attempt to limit p/p advancements out of sections. Guess what that does? That sends Chatard back to 3A in two-years' time. Put them in a different sectional and ... perhaps ... Chatard spends more time in 4A. Look, if there are advantages of p/p programs, why not develop a system that naturally sifts those advantages as opposed to artificially applying a bandage or gun-to-the-head solution? A longer cycle window moves teams up based on actual program success rather than just temporary success. It also keeps teams from moving up prematurely too. There was already a step in the right direction by reducing the stay-up requirement from 4 points to 2 points. The next step in the right direction is lengthening the cycle. Ultimately, this then starts putting the focus on where it should be ... on the teams' performance as opposed to paper statistics like median income and perceived homogeneity of student body. This would also apply regardless of p/p or public. There are communities and districts in the state that have a public label, but for all intents and purposes have it better than some p/p programs. Those schools should also being playing up as well; but based on their performance, not just because their FRL lunch program is less than 15% or all of their students are kids of corporate CEOs or university faculty.

Wonder if this possibly gets some folks to maybe attend the semis as a state final in some cases. I recall back in 2011, LCC played Sheridan for semi-state. Though the final score was 17-0, that game was in question even entering the 4th quarter. No disrespect to Scecina, and that state game was fun to watch, but I felt that the state championship game that season was LCC vs. Sheridan in semi-state. Back in 2009, LCC and Pioneer squared off in the first game of sectionals and they were ranked #2 and #1, respectively, in 1A that year. Final score was 20-0, but again, in question going into the 4th. That game was probably the state championship game that year. And that LCC/Pioneer squaring off in sectionals when both were ranked Top 5 in the season happened more than once or twice.

Saw an article that popped up today on IndyStar, but was behind a firewall. Might have numbers in it based on the title: "Insider: What we learned from Indiana high school football state finals weekend." https://r.search.yahoo.com/_ylt=AwrFFkVrzoRjOUU5zB1XNyoA;_ylu=Y29sbwNiZjEEcG9zAzEEdnRpZAMEc2VjA3Nj/RV=2/RE=1669676780/RO=10/RU=https%3a%2f%2fwww.indystar.com%2fstory%2fsports%2fhigh-school%2f2022%2f11%2f28%2findiana-high-school-football-what-we-learned-from-ihsaa-state-finals-2022-center-grove-east-central%2f69677059007%2f/RK=2/RS=Y7zhQy7AlarCJWDJOfPMzGpEZWs-

Under the current process, you stay a minimum of the cycle. I would say that, unless the cycle changes to something really big, like an 8-year cycle, that probably continues to work. If it goes to an 8-year cycle, I could see an "interim check" situation after the first four years and perhaps something like special circumstances allowing for a drop back down if you only end up with a sectional or less in the first four years of an 8-year cycle. I think, if there's a system in place that consistently "monitors" progress or regression in a program, I don't see a need to limit drops. If you are constantly yo-yoing, then it's likely an indication that it's based on classes as opposed to program or your program is in that interim position between classes. If it's that latter reason, then I'm fine with organic growth and the yo-yoing because it doesn't potentially snuff out a team that just needs a little extra time to get to that next level. Time is something that we've got and organic growth tends to be much more lasting.

I understand this sentiment, but I do like the idea of a "north/south" meeting at the state championship.

If you go to Store and then Donations and then click on the "Donate toward this goal" under the progress bar. If I could make a general suggestion to the leadership folks, I think putting a small "Donate" button in the header, it would benefit the site.

Congrats on the win!

Coached with at least three of those guys and coached the sons and nephews of a couple others. Coached with one of those guys' dad too.

The way it is right now, you get bumped up after two-in-a-row and then only need 2 points, a pair of sectionals per season or a regional or higher in any one of the two seasons, and you stay up. There are a couple of exceptions here where, due to the cycle alignments, it's possible for a team to see LOS three years in a row before getting bumped. Of course, there's also a chance to get bumped when only seeing LOS once in a cycle too. Case in point, LCC won state in 2019, lost in semi-state in 2020, and went to 2A via SF. The problem with permanent is exemplified in a program like Pioneer. Pioneer went to LOS three seasons in a row: red ring in 2016 and back-to-back blues in 2017 and 2018 including a dominating 60-0 2018 state performance. They got bumped to 2A for the 2019 season. Under the permanent proposal, they'd still be there. They returned to 1A though these season where they went 2-8 ... realize though that they went 9-3 in 2A in 2021.

Apparently someone got video of @Coach Nowlin entering LOS Friday:

Six to bump up ... 2 to stay. There are going to be a couple of those "cusp" programs that will likely be moving up even with Cathedral staying up in 6A. Valpo is one of them and likely WL-Harrison. Harrison stayed down this go-round because of Cathedral's SF bump, but I believe that enrollment estimates are possibly pointing to Harrison possibly overtaking Jeff as the largest school in the Lafayette area which will put them in 6A next go-round. Thought I saw conjecture in another thread about Whiteland likely moving toward 6A enrollment too.

Mishawaka moved up ... about a decade or so ago? Back in the day, a long ways back, Mishawaka Marian petitioned the IHSAA to move up a couple of classes, from 1A to 3A, but was only granted a one class move up at the time. They eventually ended up in 3A. Scecina also won a couple state titles in 2A back in the early 1990s and then enrollment numbers dropped and they would have moved down to 1A; but they opted to stay in 2A for a while. Eventually moved back down to 1A on enrollment ... ended up being SF'd in the 2013 season and having enrollment go up again enough to keep them in 2A via enrollment.

Linton picked up a blue ring versus Pioneer in 2016, after getting a red ring vs. LCC in 2015, before stepping on the SF elevator. Secina picked up a pair of red rings in back-to-back seasons, 2011 and 2012, to LCC and then both moved to 2A in 2013. In both Scecina's and Linton's cases, while SF took them up, eventually enrollment kept them up in 2A.