foxbat

I was somewhat joking about the "all-in" because it seems that you've added one game to the season which would seem to be like a "consolation" round of the tourney to address the fact that everyone doesn't get to compete in the tourney. At first I thought about calling the 10th game a non-advance tourney bracket, which would allow for the psychological issue of all-in, but I like the benefits of the schools keeping the dough for that 10th game. What's your thoughts about the potential impact to the conference structure? Some of the conference structures look at whether a team is a good fit, not just for football, but across several sports ... sometimes ceding average football for above average basketball and other times ceding average basketball for above average football. Would the emphasis on strength of schedule force some conferences to cut some folks loose due to football even if basketball and proximity are favorable to the conference? Would it potentially push some conferences to become basketball conferences at the expense of being a football conference or vice-versa? I understand that we already have that, but it's more of a consequence of where the chips fell in some cases than by direct design or even necessity. Would a non-all-in tourney, especially using a more encompassing decider like Sagarin or Harbin change the decision process for conferences? I'm not saying it would definitively as I'm not familiar with every conference and what drives it, but it would seem that a non-all-in tourney would add another layer in operation as opposed to right now where it really has no impact.

Looks like it'd still be all-in, right? I though you didn't like all-in. 😀 Seriously, I like the idea. Don't really know about the Harbin system though to know if it would suffer from the same shortfalls of Sagarin with "closed ecosystem" conferences or not. If it doesn't, then it sounds like a step in the right direction.

And a chunk of them come from 1A ... and despite the claims of many that no PP belongs in 1A, at least half of these aren't any real danger to public or private programs and a couple of them have only just become "dangerous", Covenant Christian and TPCS, although TPCS still has more non-winning seasons than winning seasons. This also doesn't include schools like Anderson Prep Academy who didn't play this year and the various homeschool teams that play in the regular season, but aren't tourney-certified. Covenant Christian Indianapolis Lutheran Lafayette Central Catholic Traders Point Christian Park Tudor Oldenburg Academy Indiana Deaf Riverton Parke Rock Creek Academy

Stomping grounds when I went to school are NW Houston area. Taxpayer grounds are in north Dallas area, although I guess that Allen isn't officially North Dallas ... yet. Basically though if you say anything like Plano, Richardson, Allen, Mesquite people still pretty much consider that Dallas anyway.

Yep, SF points to stay up only apply to teams that moved up due to SF.

While I think anyone can petition up or to stay up, I think the IHSAA still has to give approval. The difference now from when Scecina did it and when Mishawaka Marian did it is that there weren't set numbers in some of the classes and that's where I think the problem comes in. With 32 teams in 6A a team that petitioned up into 6A would force another team out of 6A. Just as the guy apparently doesn't want Merrillville heading back down to 5A, whichever team is 32 in 6A might equally object to being forced down to 6A when someone else got a choice to move up. Note that SF still works under this situation because no one involved in SF movements "gets a choice." Someone complaining that that they had to move down because of SF is equally not in control as the team that "had to move up" because of SF. Since that situation "treats everyone the same," I would expect the IHSAA to decline someone asking to move up to 6A, whereas, if someone asked to move from 3A to 4A, that could be done without forcing someone in 4A down, so the IHSAA might approve that one.

I have to admit that the vast majority of my Texas experience is based on big school ... I have confessed to being a big-school bigot prior to moving to Indiana. My old stomping grounds were District 17 when I was back in school and District 5 as a taxpayer ... and yes, that school to the north has lots of my tax dollars invested in it. 😀 My alma mater's district has eight teams, so they play a full seven games in-district and three outside. My old school district is actually so large now, that it spans two Texas football districts to fit all the schools in 16 and 17. They still schedule some games with teams in District 15 as those are some old rivalries from the 1970s that dissolved as that area grew big and had to add more football districts. When I was in high school there, my school district had three high schools and we were the brand-new third school. That school district now has 12 6A high schools ... talk about everything being big in Texas ... that school district alone would be just a tad under 40% of Indiana 6A.

Sagarin's going to be problematic even in non-COVID years as, if I'm not mistaken, Indiana has at least one closed-conference schedule ... someone please remind me of the conference(s) ... which makes Sagarins for teams in that conference relatively unreliable. As a matter of fact, conferences in Indiana are potentially the big wrench in figuring out the situation and, most solutions might actually weaken the current conference structure or alter their current scheduling. For example, in the Hoosier Conference, but this could apply to any conference and the way they schedule games. Teams play four games within conference division, two games cross-division, and then a conference crossover "championship" which pits top in one division against top in the other, second in one division against second in the other, etc. Seven games are locked in with two flexible for rivalry games, etc. For top teams in divisions, it'd be less of an issue year-to-year, since you'd be, presumably, playing teams with relatively higher Sagarin ratings. Would there be a push for teams who might more traditionally be in the mid-/lower- grouping of those crossover championships to push the conference to drop those to allow for possibly scheduling an outside opponent to build on the standing? Or possibly push for loosening restrictions of the out-of-division required games to allow more pick-up of "stronger" games? Also, with some conferences, the appeal is proximity. Would some of those members feel the pressure of leaving the conference to push for different competition? Would there eventually be conferences that fully realign from their traditional make-up specifically to address post-season or would there potentially be a lot a lot more teams going independent either because they didn't like restrictions of a conference or no local conferences taking them? Would there be a more profound impact in more rural areas? In Texas, a big part of the reason that their qualification works, besides the sheer number of teams which makes all-in infeasible, is that teams are assigned to proximity-based districts based on size of school. There are no conferences, no one chooses which district they want or don't want to belong to. Most districts are 8 to 10 schools and you typically play everyone in your district to make the within district numbers apples-and-apples. The state takes the top 4 teams in a district to qualify for the post-season. Of course, there's nothing that assures between-district parities, so potentially, the 5th place school in your district could be better than the 3rd-place school in the next district, but they go to the post-season and you stay home. Typically you don't see a lot of cross-over play, if any, between classes.

I offered that in another thread to create a MEGA school with Jeff/Harrison/McCutcheon which would become the largest school in Indiana and eclipse Carmel by roughly half a grand, but I was told it would make for boring football in the Lafayette area.

With the refs at LOS. 😀

May not be ... perhaps they are in the same vein with the rest of 5A. I'm more familiar with those teams since they are right in Harrison's backyard. Anderson's "signature" wins were a 6-point win over a 1-8 4A team and a 3-point win over a 2-7 6A team who picked up one of those wins with an 8-point victory over the 1-8 4A team that Anderson had the 6-point win over. None of those teams had wins over a team with a winning season. The closest was McCutcheon who beat 6-7 Logansport, who lost to Harrison 54-0, and lost a tight game to 3A Guerin who finished 4-5.

To an extent, perhaps ... but those three are in a particularly bad way to be paired with Cathedral.

Yep. All we need is Chatard, Brebeuf, and Guerin in 2A and Pioneer will get to be the honorary PP school, ala West Lafayette, in the Petite Sectional of Death.

Given the misinterpretations, I'd be fairly active in changing the wording of what I put on the site. I always tell my students that reality isn't reality; perception is reality ... especially in this social media world. It's not an issue for the folks who are bought in and understand, it's a potential distraction and problem area for those who aren't onboard. It's not a knock on Cathedral or anyone else, but whenever possible, take control of the narrative before your opponents or detractors do. The last thing you want to have to do is spend column inches, posts, tweets, or whatever it is addressing it when you could be spending that real estate/time on promoting the other things. How about something on the website that reads, "Shamrock Scholars grantors provide much needed and much appreciated support to the continuing education of Cathedral students receiving need-based tuition assistance scholarship. For more information about becoming a Shamrock Scholars grantor, please contact the Cathedral Development Office."? You can always announce what that amount is ... the quarter, half, or full ... at the awards recognition banquet where you don't have to worry about, or worse have to defend, that.

Ouch! McCutcheon and Anderson lost to Harrison by a combined 84-14 this season ... McCutcheon was shutout. Kokomo didn't play due to KOVID, but was KO'd by McCutcheon 24-7 in the first round of sectionals. Not sure Cathedral plays those two games of sectionals, but it should be lots of opportunity for non-starters to get playing time in tourney play. This will almost all but assure that LCC or Pioneer or both would likely be back in 1A in the 2023 cycle. If IHSAA were smart, they'd find a way to put them in different regions to give potential that they both stay up in 2A.

It might have been a mistake, but as @temptation the notice came down of a change in venue on Tuesday of gameweek. The odd thing about it all, which leads to questions of inconsistency is that TPCS had the same thing happen the week before with Clinton Prairie except it was Clinton Prairie that had to drop out due to COVID and it was considered a forfeit by CP. Up to and through that point, it appeared that the IHSAA was considering things based solely on the normal logistics which is based on location and not who won or lost and considering a team that won by a forfeit the home team for that match-up even if they were scheduled away. It also seemed to be working on the premise that a bye only exists based on a traditional scheduling bye ... i.e., first round bye or uneven teams in subsequent rounds byes. In the end, for LCC, it didn't necessarily matter other than the long trip, because if you lose a semi-state game by 35 points, it's not the location that mattered. Could have played at South Adams, LaRocca, in a box with a fox, in a house with a mouse, ... the end result would have been the same.

It's that Sectional Champion item that's in question and what @temptation might have been alluding too. LCC was supposed to play TPCS in the Sectional Championship as the AWAY team. TCPS forfeited due to COVID. That would have then triggered the seldom-used clause, "*If regional winner has not hosted either sectional final or regional, that school will be the designated host." IHSAA ended up treating that game as an LCC home game and that's what made the other clause, "*Regional non-host, if applicable, or higher sectional # (i.e., Sect. 2 is higher than Sect. 1)" kick in. LCC played one game of four actually played in post-season at home ... opening weekend ... and one of five scheduled at home. It was scheduled to play sectional championship away ... played the regional away ... and played semi-state away too.

All-in kind of reminds me of travel baseball tourneys except that there's a seeding component in travel baseball tourneys. You play all of your pool games on Friday/Saturday and possibly Thursday/Wednesday depending on the size of the tourney and then the elimination starts on Sunday in the brackets. You are typically guaranteed pool +1 number of games with the +1 being the first bracket game. After that, win and stay or lose and you go home.

Is that like being the "rebound coach?"

Hoosier Conference also has four classes represented: 1A - 4A although it's had its fair share of HC-on-HC elimination in 3A in particular throughout the post-season and a couple of times in 2A in semi-state ... most notably RCHS eliminating LCC in semi-state in 2014 and Tipton taking out RCHS in 2013 in semi-state. From 2005-2019, the HC placed at least one representative at LOS/RCA in 12 of 15 seasons across 1A, 2A, or 3A and, in 2015 placed two teams with one in 1A and one in 3A. Across those 15 seasons, they amassed 10 blue rings.

The subscription is free and all have something in common ... they all pertain to threads already created here on GID. And I'd be remiss if I didn't help spread @LCCAlum's and @gonzoron's efforts and also try to help out @Coach Nowlin's annual efforts in stating that, while said subscription is free, it helps GID if folks donate.

If ever there was a year for it to be free, it was this year ... especially with the uncertainty the week of the tourney on sales/capacity.

I'd actually like to see a Harrison-Roncalli rematch if Harrison stays in 5A and Roncalli bumps up to 5A in the 2023 cycle, but Harrison may actually have enough enrollment to end up in 6A this 2021 cycle. Also, if Harrison stays in 5A, I'd like to see a Harrison-Zionsville rematch. If Harrison goes 6A, I'd like to see them in matchups with Westfield in three years. My son is on Harrison's freshman squad and they dropped their game with Westfield this season 28-21. I'd be really interested in seeing that match-up revisited in three years given what folks are saying about Westfield improving. As for Jeff, Columbus North would be interesting, if both end up dropping out of 6A then that would be a decent matchup for both. Don't know if Jeff's going to be slim enough this time around to go to 5A, so they wouldn't meet Cathedral in the next two post-seasons.

I wish ... have three projects due from my students in three classes this week that I'm fielding questions on, grading two sections of exams, creating another exam, and chauffeuring kids to a COVID test and weight training.

That's not really the goal here though. Entertainment of comes from the highest competitive environment ... or so I've heard. Think about all of the things it would accomplish: Get Indiana quicker to 280 contraction Produce a really big, mega northern power to compete with the Indy-area schools Produce a power center with Purdue close by to bring in out-of-state schools on to their schedule Provide a rallying point for the breakaway Confederate States of ... I mean the NISHAA Could likely have a negative impact by sucking all of the oxygen out of the area and forcing LCC to have close down or at least get out of football as they wouldn't be able to steal people from three other big schools which would then help get rid of a PP school from football, but not from education because that would just be plain mean Might even be able to get 3A West Lafayette to fold too ... that would likely get more Purdue faculty to move to Lafayette and provide a bigger tax base than having the wealth tied up West of the Wabash ... think of the weightrooms