foxbat

And will, if history is any indicator, be re-hashed again.

See, you just didn't give it enough time. 😀

It's early in the day and they haven't crushed the hopes of the masses yet. It's coming though.

Tell you what, public or private, for the second year running, the 1A game did not disappoint for entertainment value. Gotta love small-school ball!

Kind of what I'm hoping as my oldest son is a Harrison freshman this season.

Give it a few minutes or until after the Cathedral game and a few drinks ... it'll likely be coming.

That didn't seem to be gassed, that seemed to be looking back to see if there was a flag or out of bounds. As I tell my kids on the field, make the ref come get you out of the endzone.

Westfield freshman only beat 5A Harrison 28-21 and that was Harrison freshman's lone loss this season. Is that a Harrison good or a Westfield problem? Not trying to start anything, just trying to gauge from a different perspective as I think that's as close Harrison's teams have been to Westfield in the past. The Raider freshman also thrashed 6A Jeff by three TDs. Also, Harrison's varsity played Roncalli this season and lost 49-45 in a game that had a lead change just about every possession. And their season-ender came via Zionsville who will be playing later on today in the 5A title.

Indirectly it can in some classes because there are set numbers of teams in some classes. with 64 teams in 1A and 32 in 6A can change positions in other classes. For example, if LCC moves up in 1A and there are no new teams added to 1A, someone drops down from 2A to give 64 in 1A. Similarly, in 6A, if someone moves up from 5A to 6A, to maintain 32 in 6A, someone would move down. You are correct that you don't move down on points in SF, you could move down because someone else moved up from another class.

I don't know about Forest Park, but Seeger can make some noise in 1A North ... especially with LCC and Pioneer playing up in 2A for the next cycle.

It wasn't from SF. 😀 Lord, I apologize for that.

Don't know if folks saw this this morning or not, but CG made the cover photo on MaxPreps.

And 1A Pioneer will also remain in 2A due to SF by gaining 2 points for their regional win this year.

Westfield put up 14 on them and I think part of the issue for Westfield was that they got shell-shocked early by CG's offense. I think Westfield quickly came off their game trying to close the gap and catch up after that third TD on that pass play. They had a lot of low percentage passes, even though they made some nice catches, and that just played into CG's hands. I think if the score was 14-7 CG going into the half, I'm not sure that 20 against Westfield would have done it.

The thing that tends to throw off folks isn't so much the math, but the fact that the cycles are set and independent.

The two-year cycles currently run as odd-start, even-end ... and you need 6 in the cycle to move up. For Pioneer, in the 2015-2016 cycle, while they made it to LOS in 2016 they only had 4 points ... they got 3 points in the loss to Linton and they lost in regionals to LCC in 2015 and only got 1 point. For the 2017-2018 cycle, they racked up 8 points with back-to-back wins at LOS. In the 2019-2020 cycle, they played in 2A due to SF move up. They lost in the first game of sectionals last season and garnered 0 points, but won a regional this season before being beat by Luers in semi-state. The 2 points they picked up for a regional were enough, despite zero last season, to remain in 2A since you need 6 points to move up and just 2 points to stay once you move up.

If IDOE posted it, I'd give it to you along with the one above. About the closest thing I could find was a stat, a fact sheet, that talks about graduating student class for 2018. There were 35 of 125 were free/reduced lunch. So that gives you 29.60% for Luers just a tad below WeBo and above Woodlan. Note that the number could be higher because it is just a measure of the 2018 students that GRADUATED whose numbers were included. It might be that the numbers are identical, but it's not exact apples-to-apples because these numbers are after-the-fact of only those who graduated while the IDEO numbers are the current state for their numbers and would include those that may not graduate from high school. As such, the IDEO numbers are pretty stable, the Luers numbers are probably close to static, but that depends on non-graduates, if any.

Luers isn't a public school. Even if you toss in Luers, you have two private schools in six seasons, as opposed to the previous five that referenced ... and they still loss. Of course, if we are using this season too, then my statement about WeBo's two back-to-back appearances changes to three back-to-back appearances and wins. I'm not seeing Luers in the previous 5 years in 2A:

That's the sweet spot for 2A public schools. Public schools that have played at LOS for the last decade and the F/RL percentage: Woodlan* 27.63% WeBo* 32.42% Monrovia* 33.09% Tipton 33.55% Eastbrook* 34.42% North Putnam 37.44% Southridge* 39.00% RCHS ** 41.09% Whiting * 62.07 * Public schools that played at LOS without a PP opponent ** Public schools that played at LOS with a PP and won BTW, for all of the talk about PP dominance, especially in the wake of SF, before this season, the previous five seasons in 2A have seen one PP team in those five years ... all the rest have been public schools including two appearances by WeBo and two by Eastbrook back-to-back. And Eastbrook was there three times in that five-year period.

Don't worry ... I'm SURE there will be a reason why a three-time repeating state champion is considered a damsel in distress against the big old bad PP dragon. Reminds me of the restaurant owner who eventually has to close his restaurant and just can't figure out why he's not getting any traffic he thinks he should be getting. A consultant he hires to do postmortem gets hold of the reviews and says, "What'd you do to address these complaints? Sixty-five percent of the reviews are less than four-star." The owner replies, "Yeah, I take those out because then my average jumps up to over four stars. People love the restaurant." As Bill Engvall would say,

Oh the irony. Three state championships in a row and a win over a PP ... like the PP part even matters. Let's just call it what it is ... WeBo's done a great job of making things happen when they get to LOS regardless of who's on the other side of the 50 when the coin is flipped. Congrats to the kids and their coaches and the school for not buying into the hype and just playing the game!

Sheridan and LCC both appeared four years in a row ... 2005-2008 and 2009-2012 respectively. Sheridan took blue rings in the first three apperances in that block while LCC took four blue rings. Cathedral five-peated from 2010-2014 and did it across two classes ... 4A and 5A. I believe though that WeBo might be the only team to win three consecutive blue rings in the the same class in the SF era. Pioneer made three consecutive trips to LOS in SF from 2016-2018, but like WeBo, ended up split cycle to miss moving up. Also Pioneer only picked up two blue rings in those three consecutive visits.

This statement has been echoed over and over, but I'm interested in the "operational" aspect of this. A team like LCC, e.g., missed out on playing four games this season due to its own COVID struggles. TPCS lost an opportunity to play for a sectional championship due directly or indirectly to COVID. I'm assuming that Rock Creek Academy is either a charter or PP based on the name, but they had to pull out of sectionals too. Indiana Deaf and SouthSideHomeschool had their game cancelled because of COVID ... I believe the school hit was Indiana Deaf because Southside rescheduled that same week. Northwest HomeSchool at Lake Station also had their game cancelled. AndersonPrepAcademy had its game cancelled with WesDel ... WesDel rescheduled the same week, so the school hit was likely AndsersonPrep. Central Christian Academy at Anderson Prep Academy. Phalen Academy at Park Tudor. Union (Dugger) at Indiana Deaf. Anderson Prep Academy at Traders Point Christian.Indiana Deaf at Anderson Prep Academy. Phalen Academy at Indianapolis Scecina. Traders Point Christian at South Newton. Rock Creek Academy at Indiana Deaf. Center Christian at Park Tudor. Union (Dugger) at Anderson Prep Academy. Indiana Deaf at North Central (Farmersburg). Union (Dugger) at Southside HomeSchool. Covenant Christian at Traders Point Christian. Indiana Deaf at South Decatur. Park Tudor at Anderson Prep Academy. Park Tudor at Madison-Grant. Union (Dugger) at Rock Creek Academy. Anderson Prep Academy at Frontier. Noblesville HomeSchool at Traders Point Christian. Purdue Poly at Indiana Deaf. And these are all just 1A ... with the exception of when Phalen cancelled with 2A Scecina. One other fairly glaring item that I notice in this list as well. There's A LOT of teams in this list that I'm pretty sure most folks didn't even know existed in 1A and, even if they knew existed in 1A have NEVER been in the conversation about SF, championships, "unfair advantage," etc. who would all be swept up in a multiplier.

Agreed. I think this goes to some of the stuff that others have been saying as well about SF eventually shaking things out assuming that: It gets a longer time window ... say four years compared to two. The longer time window would serve a purpose two ways. It would make it less likely that a class would push a team up as opposed to program success being the catalyst. I think this would go a long way toward dampening the complaints of some folks that don't like SF because the class-after feels the brunt of the class-before's success. In a sense you would get rid of some of the "false positives" that might push a team. It would have less yo-yo effect for teams going up and down and there would be more opportunity for permanency. This would be the opposite of the class-after bearing the brunt of the class-before, but would be more focused on the classification group. That is, the lack of performance from a school's class is much less impactful in moving a school back down with a four-year window than with a two-year. It's done on a rolling basis as opposed to a fixed cycle. This would get rid of situations like WeBo where a team could win two back-to-back titles in consecutive years. Folks don't get "cute" with scheduling teams. Matter of fact, I think it would highly behoove the IHSAA to have an add-on to the way that they implement SF in that, when teams move up, they ARE NOT assigned to a section which has another team with SF implications. We've discussed in another thread that. with LCC moving up to 2A, there's potentially a chance for Pioneer and LCC to meet again, but in 2A. If the IHSAA gets cute and assigns LCC and Pioneer to the same sectional they are GUARANTEEING that one or both could be back down in 1A by the next cycle via the following scenarios: Pioneer wins sectional in first year, LCC in the next. Both lose regional both years. At end of the cycle, both move down to 1A. LCC wins sectional in first year, Pioneer in the next. Both lose regional both years. At end of the cycle, both move down to 1A. LCC wins sectional in both years and Pioneer moves down to 1A. Pioneer wins section both years and LCC moves down to 1A. Implications for not getting cute and doing the more sensible/though-out thing of putting LCC and Pioneer in different regions gives both an opportunity to win back-to-back sections and both to stay up or both to lose a sectional and win a regional and both stay up ... that's what will happen to Pioneer this cycle. This scenario though CAN'T happen if you get cute and put LCC and Pioneer in the same sectional. This would also be the case if Roncalli and Cathedral both end up in 5A together or a situation where Chatard and Roncalli end up in the same class together. Being cute plays well in the current, but it short-circuits the long-term, more desired results.