BDGiant93

On 6/17/2022 at 2:25 PM, DT said:

Im just not like you Jon.  I cant imagine going back to the same old place day after day after day.  Year after year after year.  Recycling the same old BS time after time after time.  

I need variety in my life.  We are just wired differently.  Ive never been critical of your career or life choices-decisions.  Why do you feel the need to be critical of mine?

Well, obviously you don't know anything about me. There are some things I recycle, but there are others I don't. I have never done things the same way. I would hope that I am a better teacher and person than I was back in 1997 because of my experience. You make mistakes and you fix them. Each year is different to me. Each group of students is different. Next school year, I'll be teaching a new class I've never taught before, for example. 

If you take a tongue-in-cheek comment about how many times you've quit this message board and come back and extrapolate that into commentary on career choices, then you took that to a place I did not mean. I apologize.

On 6/17/2022 at 2:41 PM, temptation said:

Does a school with nearly 2500 boys get to play the “rebuilding card?”

Yes. In the case of 2018, Jason Simmons was not hired until March. From December to March, the program had no leadership as many of Mike Kirschner's top assistants left for their own opportunities. Many of the others weren't sure if they wanted to come back. In effect, the program had no rudder. That, coupled with the loss of 52 seniors, in my opinion sunk Coach Simmons the first year. Yes, you can be rebuilding while retooling too.

On 6/17/2022 at 4:15 PM, Old Man High Pants said:

Which like I said before turns into nothing but a glorified JV game. Playing on Friday night doesn't mean anything when everyone is trying to get the game over as quickly as possible, coaches & players are mentally checking out, and fans are emptying the stands. 

Saturday morning is not Friday night.

3 hours ago, DT said:

HHF is in good hands and under new ownership.  Just expanded to Twitter and Instagram.  Those venues are out of my lane.  

I'm assuming this means that you'll go back in a few weeks/months after pronouncing you were no longer affiliated and leaving?

2 hours ago, DT said:

Covenant Christian and Indianapolis Lutheran are hybrid football factories built to win state championships.

We are now seeing a 1A classification with private school rosters of 50 to 60 players, many recruited locally and on scholarship, playing in multi million dollar facilities with huge coaching staffs, the best equipment money can buy, and massive levels of administrative and community support, levels that very few public schools can match.

Covenant Christian doesn't even have its own football field.

On 5/31/2022 at 4:12 PM, Old Man High Pants said:

I don't buy into the reps thing. 

I absolutely do. What's the incentive for a scout team guy to keep getting his head knocked in during practice? The chance to play in a varsity game under the lights on a Friday night. The mercy rule is fine as is, and I've seen BD on both sides of it. I do think if you're up 49-0 in the 2nd quarter, it might be good to have it kick in. I agree with @crimsonace1.

5 hours ago, DT said:

Ben Davis (25-24 in 4 years since 14-0 2017 season)

Jason Simmons is one game over .500 at BD since taking over in 2018.  Giants are always a contender to reach semi state in 6A but is this the new standard for the Giants?  

 

You did forget the MIC Co-Championship in 2019. I think the Giants still have the same standards. First year was a 3-7 disaster after losing 52 seniors from 2017....22-17 since. BD has three-straight Sectionals and Regionals. BD also defeated Carmel and Brownsburg the last two years in the Regional. Regular season record struggle has been early for BD 10-14 in August & September under Coach Simmons, 15-10 after...15-7 if you take out 2018.

Giants have gotten better throughout the year the last few and have been playing good football by October. The last two losses against Center Grove in Semi-State have not been particularly pretty, but who else beat Center Grove the last two years? Unless you were Cathedral or Westfield, it hasn't been particularly pretty.

Does that mean the program is satisfied? Nah. I don't think Coach Simmons is either. Time will tell though, you're right. 

5 hours ago, DT said:

 

 

Warren Central (9-10 last 2 seasons)

With Center Grove and Carmel out of the way, Warren is back as Top Dog in The MIC.  Are the Warriors ready to return to prime time under Coach Mike KIrshner?  This program does not produce the high end talent it did 10 to 15 years ago, and many schools in Indy have caught up to WC in total enrollment.  2022 is a huge year for Kirschner and his staff, and will give a clear indication if this program is still considered amongst the "elite" in Class 6A.  

 

 

 

https://twitter.com/joziahedmond4/status/1537166353857224706?s=20&t=dZNtRutX9B9nqRP4j1mYMg

On 6/16/2022 at 11:44 AM, Bobref said:

Correct. A lot of people think the travel limitations only apply when the Indiana school travels out of state. That’s incorrect. The travel rule, which is Rule 10-1, reads as follows:

“The address of an out-of-state school participating in a Contest with a member School, as well as the site of such Contests, must be within six hundred (600) miles round trip travel from the Indiana state line and shall be sponsored or co-sponsored by a member School.”

I’m on record as saying the travel rule constitutes an unwarranted intrusion on the rights of local school corporations to decide, on a case by case basis, what sort of experiences they want to offer students, including student athletes. A blanket rule like 10-1 is a blatant overreach by the IHSAA.

The travel rule is silly, but it's really silly that you can't host someone further than 600 miles round trip from out of state.

---

Our band and choir students raise an awful lot of money to go on their trips and excursions. They sell the heck out of fundraiser stuff. My rule is that I always buy, but it has to be the first person to get to me.

On 6/15/2022 at 3:13 PM, BTF said:

Top 4. There is a reason Warren Central (9), Ben Davis (9), and Carmel (9) have 27 state championships between them. Coincidence? I think not. Enrollment? Highly probable. Carmel and Warren Central rank 1 & 2 in enrollment. Ben Davis was 3 or 4 during their run of 9 championships. Let's not pretend that enrollment doesn't play and ENORMOUS factor. 

Ben Davis is larger than Warren.

18 minutes ago, temptation said:

But should a school with the resources and enrollment of Ben Davis EVER BE an underdog in the first place?

Fair point.

18 hours ago, Footballking16 said:

I'm not completely writing off Warren Central or Ben Davis or leaving them for dead. I'm just convinced the window where we can expect Warren Central and Ben Davis to automatically be state title contenders every single year has closed. There will be years where both BD and WC have special classes with good talent who absolutely can and may even win it all, but there's too many other programs who have closed the talent gap.

I get what you're saying. It's getting harder to be dominant, and that makes Center Grove's current run pretty remarkable. 

40 minutes ago, HHF said:

1. Delta becomes a power in 3A, and starts the next wave of Conference Realignment by departing the Hoosier Heritage, along with Yorktown, and starting a new conference that includes Muncie Central and Centerville.  

2. Greenfield Central's Travis Nolting becomes the state's top Head Coaching prospect and makes a big move to the HCC.  

3. The Eric Moore Era at Center Grove comes to a close and Pat Mallory returns from Lawrence North to take over the Trojan Football Program. 

4. Pike surprises under new HC Mike Brevard and quickly wins a MIC title in the post Carmel-Center Grove era.

5. Logan Haston breathes new life into the football program at Columbus North, and the Bulldog athletic program is invited to join the Mid State Conference, replacing departing Greenwood.

6. Craig Buzea steps down at Crown Point, and former LaPorte Head Coach David Ortiz takes over the program.  

7. Carmel schedules a home date with Bradenton, Fl powerhouse IMG Academy.  

8. The Northwest Crossroads Conference is rejuvenated by the arrival of new Kankakee Valley Head Coach Kirk Kennedy and the addition of growing 3A power Hanover Central.  

9. Hammond Central quickly emerges as a growing force in Northwest Indiana, overtaking Hammond Morton as the preferred football destination in town.  

10. Nick Hart comes to the conclusion that he has accomplished all he can at the small school level, and leaves Gibson Southern to replace his Dad at Brownsburg.

11. Evansville North emerges as the top public school program in the city and rises to challenge Castle, Jasper, Memorial amd Mater Dei for Top Dog status in the SIAC.

12. Kyle Mullins is rewarded for his program building efforts at Scottsburg and takes over at a large Southern Indiana high school in the Hoosier Hills Conference. 

I've missed the dozens.

#3 is an interesting thought. I would say that Coach Mallory has done enough at LN to justify that hiring, but is there anyone on the current staff that might get elevated?

#4 would be a great day. I hope Coach Brevard has a lot of success at Pike (even if he loses a few to his alma mater along the way).

#10 Another interesting thought. Not sure I'd leave a good thing. 

#12 is another hopeful positive. Coach Mullins is a great person.

1 hour ago, temptation said:

“But they’ve won their sectional!!!!!”

- @BDGiant93

They did win their Sectional. They also won their Regional as underdogs. But, there's no doubt, it was a watered down Sectional. I know that. I'm not stupid. 

Also, Coach Simmons motto the last couple of years has been "the standard is the standard." He knows the nine State Championships on the wall under the scoreboard is the standard.

1 minute ago, HHF said:

Basketball is in the process of eclipsing football as the premier sport in The MIC.  

I'm not totally going to disagree with you on this.

On 6/11/2022 at 8:52 AM, temptation said:

By 2030, the current MIC 6 schools (save for North Central in a few sports and BD/WC football) will be the equivalent of the current IPS athletic programs.

Don Carlisle is building a monster in the Ben Davis boys basketball program. 

On 6/13/2022 at 10:14 AM, Footballking16 said:

I think Brownsburg is better than both Warren and BD but you'd have to be crazy at this point to trust Brownsburg in an elimination game. 

And yet Brownsburg is dropping Ben Davis after this year.

I've been watching this thread. I don't have much to add. I think a lot of the narrative around Warren Central sounds like the BD narrative in the late 2000's. Kirschner came in in 2007 after Tom Allen left. People were talking about diminishing returns on the Westside. 

BD went 7-4 in 2007 losing to Pike in the Sectional. In 2008, the Giants went 10-4 losing to CG in the Semi-State. They were highly-ranked in 2009, but the season unraveled quickly and the Giants finished 5-5. They were 6-4 in 2010 and people like Driven T and folks were writing the obit of the program. In 2011, Kirschner took a team with a former FB at QB to the Regional Championship Game against undefeated Carmel. Matt Brock set a new one-year passing record that year. Of course, then came the Kyle Castner years. 2012, 2013, and 2014...then the Reese Taylor years in 2015, 2016 and 2017. The 2017 team was one of the best ever to play in Indiana.

So, yeah, things ebb and flow in large programs. Sustained success is not a guarantee any more. 

Coaching changes and things are not really that surprising either to me. Kirschner wants people who work at his speed and who have his commitment. He's going to do things right, and he wants coaches that do too. I respect the man tremendously, and it may take some time, but Warren will succeed under him.

As far as why they're dropping CG, I have no idea. Those things happen for a number of reasons. It's my understanding that Coach Simmons doesn't want to drop CG at BD. Anyway...that's my 42 cents.

Let's not forget that Avon has had some issues in the Athletic Department that have resulted in a change of leadership. I'm sure that might have something to do with the state of things on Oriole Way.

1 hour ago, Trojanmp52 said:

With us having a few years with the mercy rule now,  what are people thoughts on it and how it helping or hurting the game?

my two cents for what it is worth is in playoffs love it the way it is.  Regular season not so much as the way it is now.  This is how I would like to see it change.

1. Change the points from 35 to 42 at half, but still keep it at 35 for the 4th

2 have a different mercy rule for each class or group like 1-4 and 5-6 and I would be ok with making 1-4 the way we have it now and 5-6 the way I have above.  I know it will asked what about a team in class 4 plays a team in 5 what do you do with different mercy rules?  My though would be you go with the lower class school rule since I am basing this on my idea on team size and kids that would get to play

3 no mercy rule for freshman and Jv games  those games are already shorter 
 

 

No need to make it more complex than it needs to be. I have seen both sides of the coin. If you get down 35 in the second half, that's plenty. Let's get it over with. 

https://district.wayne.k12.in.us/2022/05/23/ben-davis-high-school-athletic-director-to-retire-june-30/

Congratulations to John Clark. He came to Ben Davis in 1972 and has served in a number of roles in the classroom and outside of the classroom. For the last 20 years, he's been the AD or Assistant AD at BDHS. I wish him the best retirement he can have! I'll cherish our conversations about teaching and about mentoring students.

16 minutes ago, HHF said:

Lets assume that eventually the voters approve the funding needed to fix the schools.

When you make a decision, go big (one mega school) or small (multiple 3A size schools.)

Im suggesting that the smaller school model would fit the community better and serve its long term academic and athletic interest more suitably.  

 

That's fair.

On 5/20/2022 at 5:18 PM, HHF said:

Terre haute will not build a mega 6A type high school.  They are already on an island and a mega school would further isolate them from their neighbors and force them into independence.  Enrollment is dropping and eventually both THS and THN will be approaching 4A status, with puts them in line with the other 3a and 4A schools in the area and likely WIC membership.  

You continue to look at this through a high school sports prism. The issue won't be whether or not they are isolated or want to fit into a conference. It will be funding and whether or not they can afford, as a district, to keep all the schools they have open with less funding.

1 hour ago, wvigo13 said:

The school corp's referendum on the ballot last week failed by a massive margin. It was supposed to raise property taxes and bring in over $200M so the corporation could renovate the 3 high schools. That failed so who knows what happens now. I've heard from people around the city they wouldn't be surprised if we ended up with 1 massive high school. Another was combining West Vigo/Terre Haute North into one high school. I'm not sure what happens. I'm not a big fan of the massive high school idea. I don't wanna see WV go away.

I'd hate to see it too.

On 5/16/2022 at 3:49 PM, HHF said:

ADs and Admins would rather get beaten to a pulp week after week than lose football revenue and deep six their entire athletic budget.  It is what it is.  

Looking forward, we have a new generation of admins who are considerably less sportsminded, often times more female, and will likely be more willing to pull the plug on football than would their predecessors.  

Three of the best AD's I've ever worked with have been women. Alice Underwood at Franklin Central, Priscilla Dillow and Heather McGowan at Ben Davis

I think the Terre Hautes are an interesting topic. Do you really think they'll further split into another school? More likely they'll consolidate into one school. I don't want to have to figure out which ones survive, but I think this is much more the trend in these communities rather than splitting into another 3A.