jets

37 minutes ago, Lysander said:

Well....yes and no as regards the “hate/envy” position.  While I think we have a much more informed and thoughtful group overall here on the GID, I’m not sure that means everyone here is.  As regards the general public, just take a 30 second peak at the Indiana HS Football Facebook page and it’s nothing but the “hate/envy” crowd screaming at the top of their lungs about “recruiting”, “intentionally limiting enrollments” and “separate tournaments”......and they are LOUD.  In a world that seems governed by a few loud (often crazy) voices on Twitter, it’s more than unsettling for me when I hear and see a lot of the stuff outside of here as regards HS football.

When those of us who have (had in my case) kids who attended parochials that is likely the 95% we hear from those detractors outside of here.

I don’t think anyone here who is associated with P/Ps denies the advantages....but the general public tends to see it as “recruiting”, “limiting enrollments”, etc. which any reasonable person knows isn’t the case.  

So the question becomes how to address it appropriately and fairly...for everybody (including the P/Ps who don’t care much about football).  

Well- in my personal opinion-whether they “care” about football or not, the advantages are still prevalent- so I’ve advocated for a simple bump of one class to all P/Ps. 

If that is too broad- then call it what it is and bump any P/P’s with 10 or more State Championships 😜..

43 minutes ago, Grover said:

Don't drop to the old hate/envy argument.  There's rational thought to the animosity.  Public schools have to accept pretty much everybody in their school district.  In today's world it is difficult to find an acceptable way to word it but let's just compare the percentage of students participating in extracurriculars at private vs. public schools.  Public schools have a much larger percentage of students who simply show up.  They contribute nothing to the school system EXCEPT increasing the enrollment and (in the sports world) bumping the school up to a bigger division.  Is that controlling enrollment?  No.  Is it a huge advantage for the privates?  Absolutely.  Does that mean I hate or envy the privates?  Not even a little.  My wife's family is a Ritter family.  I have many friends from Roncalli and Cathedral.  I've also been involved in highly competitive youth football for 20 years and crediting the success of the privates to the CYO league is avoiding the obvious.

Very well stated. 

And the end of every season you’ll get the “good ol boy argument” of “Well ya they (PP) recruit” and “ya they get to decide how many people they have” ...

Most educated individuals have moved past those points - but it still doesn’t mean PP’s don’t have obvious advantages that their public counterparts do not- as you stated above. And to ignore them, or not at least recognize them is simply ignorant.

I’m much like you in regards I don’t really have much ill-will towards PP’s- but I’m not naive enough to ignore their obvious advantages. 

Best of luck to both teams here in about an hour or so. 

Curious if some WeBo poster can shed some light on a question I’ve been pondering. 

Before this 3 year explosion- was it safe to say WeBo was just a “middle of the road 3A school” ?? Meaning- had t won a sectional since the early 90s?? 

Why the sudden drop in enrollment to 2A?? 

8 hours ago, Lysander said:

I argued this for weeks with Coach Gallogly in 2012 when the SF was announced (largely because I thought the SF wouldn’t result in what Publics wanted) and was a lone (REALLY LONE) voice.

I believe @Titan32 recalls me tilting at that windmill.

Now, I’m just not so sure.  Let’s be honest, this whole debate is really about a couple of schools who have for the last 25 years shown up at LOS about every couple of years or so: Cathedral and Chatard.  Then add in LCC (who’s success has been relatively recent but pretty dominant for about 10-12 years) and Dwenger and you just about have your “problem” taken care of.  Roncalli used to be one of those “problems” and it looks like they might be again.

A multiplier (or automatic “bump” dings about 30 other P/Ps who actually should not be bumped).  The SF would likely have worked better if the IHSAA had done 3 things at the time:

(1) Originally utilized a 2 point requirement versus a 4 point requirement to stay “up”.

(2) Not be so “cute” about always matching Cathedral, Chatard and Roncalli in the same sectional to get them out of the tournament making it almost impossible to get the needed 2 points to stay up.  Both Chatard and Roncalli would both likely still be “up” a class if this had not been done.  

Also not be “cute” about things like the gerrymandered Sectional 28....which permitted the travesty of Sectional 30 - better called the “Danville/TriWest Expressway to Semistate”.  It’s hard to believe grown@ss adults do shite like that.

(3) Have a “rolling” 2 year points period for the SF.

At this point, I think I like the result of the SF.  I’d never have likely seen the greatest Championship game in my lifetime (2015 Dwenger/New Pal) without it.  Several publics these last 10 years have been every bit as good as those P/Ps mentioned above - Columbus East, New Pal and Pioneer immediately come to mind.

One other side note.  I disagree with RebelDad when he says that only Cathedral could play up 2 classes.  Chatard would likely have run roughshod in 5A pre-SF...as should most anyone.   4A, pre SF, would easily have been the toughest class pound for pound there was the last 10-12 years (Cathedral, New Pal, Columbus East, Reitz, Dwenger, Roncalli...that’s a Murderer’s Row).  5A is “evolution in action” because most of those great 4A teams listed above now reside there.

So despite my earlier dislike of the SF, I’ve come around to it because it is a targeted, thoughtful and surgical approach rather than the slapdash “one size fits all” approach of an automatic bump or multiplier. 

 

While good in theory, the SF publishes PUBLIC schools who, like it or not, do not have the inherent advantages that P/P's do. Again, it's really that simple.

While I agree with your premise in that really the SF rose with the Cathedral's and Chatards and Luers of the world, it has conversely affected classes in PUBLIC schools who really, had no impact on the success of their previous classmates. Your approach I believe is a little to "narrow" in scope- focused solely on the "big dogs"  of the football world so-to-speak. 

There are Mater Dei's of the world...the Memorial's...the Guernin Catholics, etc...that are still playing with a "loaded deck of cards" in comparison to their public school counterparts. It is just the facts of the matter. 

Playing up a class is the simplest and easiest solution - but as stated previously - the IHSAA will never/doesn't have the guts to pull that trigger. 

Parochials/Private play UP a class. It’s really that simple. I’ve walked the halls of a public school- I’ve walked the halls of private/parochial-  They(P/P) just have a different clientele. It’s really that simple. 

The IHSAA are just cowards when it comes to the subject. 

1 hour ago, Patriot 74 said:

Yeah I definitely think that they need to switch Princeton and HH in that deal.  That's my vote....Princeton to 32 and HH to 30.  Let's make it happen!!!

48 minutes ago, HHPatriots said:

This is the best idea I have heard in a long time!

Don't get off-track there fellas...this week/thread should be about the 2 teams remaining. We'll have plenty of time to discuss the JOKE of a sectional the IHSAA put together and how to fix it. 

40 minutes ago, 1st_and_10 said:

I wouldn't guarantee that Danville goes North.  Webo will be 3A next year as well.  They may go North (basically I could see them replacing Chatard in that Sectional).  Danville may be borderline 4A enrollment (and if they win, they go 4A).  It will be very interesting to see the sectional alignments when they come out.

As long as SOMEONE fixes Sectional 30 !! I was going to start a thread about 3A sectional re-alignments - but thought it best to wait until the season ended. (Danville moving up is a possibility) 

I'll throw my 2 cents (if it's even worth that much) on the match-up this weekend. First of all, I know ZERO about Chatard, so I'll just assume they are the juggernaut they always are. 

Danville has some D.U.D.E.S that can flat out play. Physical, aggressive, skilled - and seemed to be very well coached. If there is one thing that might hold them back from taking down Chatard, it could be their lack of "creativity" on offense. You pretty well know what you're going to get - it's just a matter of if you can stop it. No one in the South put up much of a fight, so hard to tell. 

Good luck to both teams this weekend.  

ps...How in the world is Chatard 3A?? This SF thing seems awfully "flawed", IMO 

2 minutes ago, XStar said:

You'd have met the exact same fate in 2A.  

Well-thanks for that. 

Sorry for that performance- but Danville is dang good. Congrats to them and good luck next week. 

Am I allowed to lets not forget that was a 2A school playing in the 3A Semi-State?? I feel like I’ll get burned at the cross so maybe I should retract it.............na 

Proud of our guys for stepping up and answering the Bell. Just ran into a damn good team 

1 hour ago, Patriot 74 said:

Quit freaking whining about success points.  Your enrollment is practically/if not 3A.  Jeez I have never seen anything like "We should be playing in 2A.....blah blah blah"  AND HH guys aren't on here calling out y our opponent, we are on here supporting you and backing you, because we know what we have seen from you and are familiar with Stink Town and Danville!!! Grow up

This was debated/confirmed last week from the IDOE website that the current enrollment would IN FACT have SR in 2A. Usually we hover around the cut-off mark in that regard. 

I don't believe it's out of line to point out the fact a 2A enrollment school is having success in the 3A tournament (and it's also natural to wonder "what-if" ) . I think it's a pretty cool accomplishment. 

Danville is good, no doubt about it. 

Is “Mr. Six-Shooter” still the coach at Danville?? I seem to remember reading somewhere that he was moving on- but don’t remember and actually have no clue his name. Just will never forget a HC doing the six-shooter routine after a score. 

37 minutes ago, GC42 said:

Pioneer 8

Andrean 0

1st Q

Any live stream for this one?

2 hours ago, Cappy said:

Per IHSAA website

Per the Deparment of Education website. 

17 minutes ago, Patriot 74 said:

Look, I am rooting big time for The Ridge, but this talk has got to stop.  Sounds like an excuse just in case things don't go well Saturday.

SR 525 Students

HH 601 Students

Lawrenceburg 584

All seems pretty close in comparison when looking a enrollments for rural area 3A schools.  

Not sure where you pulled those #’s from. But a quick IDOE search will show your are about 25+ off for SR. 

But point taken. I’ll shut my trap from now on

5 minutes ago, Patriot 74 said:

Probably not the best place for this discussion, but..........both were/are 12-0 at this point in the season.  So I think Saturday will be the measuring tool.  HH last year was the best team in 3A not named Chatard, and they quite possibly were the best team (Chatard) of any class.  

HH was good no doubt. But don't dismiss knocking out a team's "do everything" QB mid 2nd quarter - changed the course of that game last year. Also most of those dudes were "young bucks" compared to this year, another year older, etc...

Totally different game, circumstances, environment , etc this year. Let's not also forget SR is a "success factored" school punching above its weight all season. 

Find the STC Hanner references funny....

1 hour ago, LCKfan4life said:

Should be a good game , rooting for the Panthers- I'm sure if there was snow in the forecast, Pioneer would make sure the field is clear so there would be no advantage to either team....

 

-Still bitter

Grass fields in the playoffs. Gotta love it. (I don't know where the sarcasm button is, or I'd press it X 100)

Per IHSAA by-laws - the visiting team can request "day of game" - home team can then set the "time of day" the game will be played. If Saturday is requested, it's more than likely understood that travel is an issue. Last year, MD requested a Saturday game, having to go more than 3+ hours on a bus - Triton then sets the game time at 11 am, or noon, can't remember. Pretty busch league on their part

Takes a lot for me to root for our ol parochial rivals in the South, but just this one time, I'd like to see them lay the hammer down for last year. 

Before we move onto Regional- can we just recognize that a 2A school (by success factor and enrollment) manufactured this tough-as-nails Sectional?? I mean- I don’t believe many people gave this team much attention/chance when “the big dog” decided to hang it up in terms of football- but here they are. 

Linton still can’t seem to crack the MD code...

For anyone attending the game- what was the atmosphere like with no fans?? That had to be really strange.

10 hours ago, Moonshiners said:

On a hot summer’s night in August of 1982 my favorite wrestling tag team was formed. In my eyes Strike Force is the greatest tag team known to man. Tito Santana and Rick Martel could beat up anyone one out there. Due to politics it took them until October of 1987 to win the tag team title. For years they had to take a back seat to lesser tag teams like the islanders and the Hart foundation, but they were patient and stayed the course. The WWF robbed them again shortly after, and fixed a match so Demolition could win the title. Strike Force would never hold the belt again and after a couple of years Rick Martel turned heel and left Tito high and dry and they eventually started their individual careers.

I believe that championship title in 1987 catapulted MD football to what it is today. When the going gets tough the Wildcats think about everything Strike Force had to go through to win that title without the help of the WWF fat cats and they dig deep and get the job done. I can’t confirm with certainty, but I believe coach Goebel has broken out some old vhs tapes at halftime when MD is down just to show them the kind of heart Strike Force had...the heart of true champions. I hope the Miners think about that on Friday. Can they beat MD? Maybe. Can they beat MD AND Strike Force? No way

I was a "Rockers" fan all the way. Marty Jannetty and Shawn Michaels - what a team! The betrayal in the barber shop still haunts me to this day. 

And, the bushwackers were awesome as well! 

2 minutes ago, itiswhatitis said:

Holy smokes!  8 different feeder schools?!?  The majority of other 2A schools have ONE grade school.  I noticed you put on there that some go to other schools.  However "some" go to Mater Dei.   Let's just say 3 kids in every class go to Mater Dei every year and play football.   That is 24 more players they get than your average 2A school gets.  They have the numbers every year over other schools especially in their sectional.   I would think that is a main reason why they can stay so dominant.  I thought I I read a comment that MD had 64  players on the roster this year.   Most other 3A schools have half to two thirds that many.   Don't take this wrong.  I am NOT bashing MD for their success.  I am just a bit taken back by their numbers and how they can stay 2A with enrollment and draw from 8 different feeder schools.  Maybe my 3 is a high guess but I felt it was rather low.  Only bringing this up for discussion and not wanting to start a fight.  And thanks for the reply Wildcat1992.

Kinda like how Linton draws from all over Greene County.....(sorry, couldn't help it) 

13 hours ago, itiswhatitis said:

I have been feeling the same way Miner Pride.  When they were in 1A it took the Miners a while to get past Perry Central.  Then it got to the point of the Miners controlling sectional 48 for several years.  They became the favorites just about every year as is Mater Dei now in sectional 40.   Linton is still a young program in 2A.  They have only been in 2A just a few years.  They figured out how to win sectional 48 in 1A and they will get it figured out how to win sectional 40 also.  The  Miner coaching staff is too good not to make it happen.  As you said and many of us have said this year, the Miners are a young team this season.   I think about the season they have had this year and then think about next year and all of those sophomores and juniors will  be another year experienced and another year older and stronger.  No matter what happens this year, I'm looking forward to next year as the season the Miners rise up and start  making some noise in 40.  It will be a more veteran team and I expect them to do well.  I hate to say, "wait until next year", but I think in this case it fits.  I'm not counting them out his year because they haven't played the game yet, but I believe next year they will have the best team they have had since moving up to 2A.

I agree that MD is NEVER out of the sectional conversation. But I’m not sure I’d label them favorites every year. Going back to ‘07 (year after MD spent a 4 year hiatus in 3A) - I believe that it is an even 5-5 split between the Raiders and MD, when both are present in the same sectional. 

Someone else will eventually have to beat MD at some point in this sectional. 

Linton is too good of a program to continually no-show vs MD. They’ll get it figured out soon enough. Maybe this year?? 

Can't help but think about all the fun this sectional would be if the Raiders were playing in good ol 40! Who'd of thunk the Raiders would be success-factored up before all powerful MD huh?? 

Anyway- I completely wiffed on the TC-Linton game, so obviously Linton has all wheels churning. Again, from having played both NP and Linton, I'd say Linton has a big advantage. 

Good luck to all teams. 

Don’t want to discredit the big win for Linton last night- but you gotta feel a little bit for Tell City last night being hit by the Rona bug at absolutely the worst time. 2020 in a nutshell I guess...

Having played both teams- at full strength, I believed it would be a nip/tuck type of game. Kuddos to Linton for getting it done- but now TC will be left to wonder “what might have been” had they had their full compliments of players.

Best of luck to the teams moving on and congrats to TC on a good year. Just a tough way for it to end