Bobref

First, let me say great job of data mining. Appreciate the work. Very helpful to this discussion. The numbers are what they are, but they don’t speak for themselves. They have to be interpreted. And you’ve overstated the significance of these numbers in your interpretation, perhaps knowingly for emphasis, in order to make your point. If what you are trying to do is determine whether a bus ride of 2+ hrs. is a more (or less) significant disadvantage than a shorter ride, simply using won-loss records won’t do that. For example, Team A travels 2 1/2 hrs. to play Team B. On a neutral field, Team B is 10 pts. better than Team A. They play the game, and Team B wins by 21 pts. The next week, Team A travels 15 minutes to play Team C. On a neutral field, Team C is 10 pts. better than Team A. They play the game, and Team C wins by 1 pt. These data support, but don’t “prove,” that as for Team A, a long bus ride causes them to perform more poorly than a short bus ride, even though they lost both games. Of course, you’d need a lot more outcomes to be able to talk about “proving” something. But the principle is the same. If you want to find out how travel times affect performance, you have to measure the difference between the actual performance after travel compared to the expected performance over travel times. I think this illustration shows how difficult it would be to measure how much travel affects performance, since there are way too many variables involved. Now it’s about time for someone to talk about “common sense” … which is often neither common nor accurate.

Sure it will. You just have to run sideways.

Here are all the dimensions for a high school field and an NCAA field. Compare and contrast.

That would be “Griffith.”

In order for the kickers to legally recover the kick it must be both grounded and go beyond the receivers’ free kick line (normally the 50 yd. line). These requirements may be satisfied in any order. If the receivers touch the ball before it goes 10 yds. and is grounded, all bets are off and it’s a free ball.

On the playoff application, each official is asked to list any schools to which he should not be assigned, and why. How would you feel about coaches having a “scratch list” for the tournament? For example: “List 3 crews you do not want to see in the playoffs.”

West Lafayette is just really good at football. Their coaching, play design, play calls, all really top notch.

No doubt there are many factors to be applied to an individual game. That’s why large numbers are necessary to say anything definitive.

Half a loaf is better than none.

Opinion by intelligent, experienced observer = good Statistical evidence over many games compiled without bias = better

When I attended St. Edward in the late 60s, we had a live Golden Eagle (at that time, private ownership of bald eagles was illegal, as they were endangered). It had a wingspan > 6 ft. At the start of basketball games it would fly from one end of the gym to the other, an awesome sight!

Take the Poll.

Keep your eye on the ball. This started as a discussion of whether the all in format is the best way to construct a post season, in order to promote the interests of Indiana high school football. If what we are trying to do is design a system that works best for all of Indiana High School Football, every season, the feel-good Monrovia story is irrelevant.

And there’s nothing in the Bulletin about bats. 😂🤣

People believe what they want to believe, evidence to the contrary be damned.

Rule 4-3-6 “When a team attempts to conserve or consume time illegally, the referee shall order the game or play clock started or stopped.” It’s entirely within the judgment and discretion of the Referee. That’s why wearing that white hat is such an awesome responsibility. There is literally nothing that goes on from the moment you walk on the field until the game is over that you don’t control.

Bigfoot is a myth … and yet, there are still sightings. 😆🤣 It was inevitable that this would happen sometime. Bad luck for @Footballking16that it happened this season. But this has been tracked every year I can remember this debate going on, and this is the first time I recall it happening. The bottom line is that it is statistically insignificant. The basic question remains: do you design a system to accommodate the statistical outlier that occurs once every ten years or so? Or, do you design a system that returns benefits every season, to the disadvantage of the one team per decade that bucks the odds?

The rules are set out in the IHSAA’s Fall Bulletin. https://www.ihsaa.org/sites/default/files/documents/Fall Bulletin_11.pdf#page17 Here’s what it says: Q. Restrictions Please inform your students and fans that during the game: 1. Banners and posters are not allowed. 2. Battery powered or electronic noise makers, fireworks, recorded music (permissible during- quarter breaks, halftime, and post-game) , sirens or whistles are not allowed. 3. Throwing of articles, including toilet tissue and baby powder, is not allowed. 4. No live animal mascots are permitted at any time. 5. The facility should be as neutral as possible without any enhancements that emphasize a home team. The site manager, who is usually the home team AD, is responsible for enforcing these restrictions. Importantly, the game officials have no responsibility for enforcing these restrictions.

As I said, Sagarin is an average. Some games, the home field advantage is enormous. Others, not so much. That’s why the best expression of the advantage is a point spread, not a W-L record. And anecdotal evidence is next to useless compared to the law of large numbers. If all you looked at was Ohio State traveling to play IU, you’d conclude there was no home field advantage. If you looked at IU traveling to Columbus, you’d say the advantage was gigantic. There is safety (and greater accuracy) in large numbers of games.

Glad the cannon is gone. First time I worked at NJ I was a back judge, and didn’t know about the cannon. They scored, and that thing went off behind me. It was traumatizing … and that was back when we wore white knickers. Strange things happen there. Once when I was working Referee there, just as I signaled the ball ready for play, a bat landed on the ground between the QB and me. Then the ball was snapped and, I confess, instead of paying attention to my responsibilities, I watched to see if the bat got stepped on. He didn’t. That was a TV game. As soon as I got home I watched the replay, and the bat showed up clearly.

Almost 2 pts. per game … over the course of 1800 games … that’s a lot of points. Ignore them at your peril. You can bet gamblers don’t think that kind of edge should be “thrown out the window.” And, of course, that includes schools that are 5 minutes apart, as well as the 2 1/2 hr. drive from Valpo to Ft. Wayne. And this is an average. Some games there may be only an infinitesimal advantage. Others, it might be huge. But you said there wasn’t a home field advantage, and there clearly is. Now you’re, as @temptationpredicted, “moving the goalposts” by saying the advantage is only “slight,” or not as great as college or pro. I hate it when he’s right. By the way, I checked. Sagarin’s algorithms produce a home field advantage of 2.00 pts. on his college football page, and 2.18 pts. for the NFL. Not that much different, wouldn’t you say?

Actually, turns out it’s more like 1800 games.

You draw that conclusion simply by comparing W=L records in 45 games in a closed conference? Not nearly a big enough sample size to have statistical significance.. Sagarin’s algorithms churned through about 1500 games this year, and came up with home field advantage of 1,76 pts.

No.

That’s the question that has to be answered to determine whether long travel is a greater disadvantage than short travel.