BTF

On 7/23/2022 at 3:45 PM, scarab527 said:

I don’t wanna argue about this because there’s no definitive way of knowing, but having seen both teams play, I think saying that would’ve been a pick ‘em game is just not accurate. I think the Pirates were far and away the best team outside of the Indy metro area last year, which shows just how far ahead Indy is of the competition. 

I think it's hard to speculate that Merrillville was far and away the best outside of Indy when: 

1.     They didn't play any teams from the other three quadrants of the state.

2.    They were blown out by the only team they played outside of the Duneland. 

Carroll lost to Westfield by a smaller margin than did Merrillville and were within striking distance half way through the third. I guess that's the only comparison we have to go by. Both good football teams last year for sure. 

On 7/23/2022 at 2:42 PM, Bears62 said:

News flash: Carroll isn’t in 5a.

Lol, thanks.

Just now, temptation said:

Yeah, I get it but if you want to be taken seriously as a 5A/6A contender you can’t get wrecked by a 3A school, no matter how good they are.

I can't debate that. Agree. 

8 minutes ago, temptation said:

And I’m taking nothing away from that 2020 Chatard outfit.  They went 14-1 and rolled to the 3A state title but they DOMINATED a Merrillville squad that was hyped up all season.

Makes me think Decatur Central (or someone else) can do the same to them this fall.

Chatard was a beast that year. Any given year there are 5 Indy schools that the rest of the state probably won't win against. That year, Chatard was one of them, although Fort Wayne Concordia took them to the wire. 

I think Chatard knew they were facing a beast in Merrillville with all they hype and brought their best game to the table. Merrillville had no idea what they were up against and were probably unprepared for the truck that was about to hit them. Make sense? Thus the importance in scheduling stiff competition before the truck hits. 

17 minutes ago, temptation said:

Know what keeps me from declaring Merrillville the “easy favorite” right now?

Chatard rolling them in 2020.

Probably unfair on my part, I know…

@BTFknocks me for dropping the phrase “Allen County good” in regards to some of the SAC schools, but I’m fearing Merrillville may only be “Region good” until they prove otherwise.

I’ll take the field in 5A.

Lets be honest here. "Allen County good" equates to "no problem competing with" any program outside of the Indy mega schools. And Snider might take exception to that since they had the MIC and the HCC down late in the second half before bowing out in two very close games...........both within the last five years. I get the Homestead/Carroll thing as neither one has enjoyed success against Indy in recent memory. 

Back on topic. Merrillville the "easy" favorite equates to "very naive." If Carroll (SAC co-champs with Snider and Luers) met up with Merrillville last year, it would have been a pick-em game. 

1 hour ago, DT said:

The duneland won three consecutive state titles 75 76 77 three different schools. Valpo, Merrillville and then portage. And then the Hobart machine came on the scene and dominated throughout the '80s

 

The best players on the 76 Merrillville state championship team were juniors. So expectations for a repeat in '77 where sky High.

 

I can still remember waking up on a Sunday morning and reading the newspaper from the Friday night game where portage beat Merrillville three to nothing. It was shocking 

I remember those Brickies. Quite possibly the team of the 80's. 

The good thing about Portage upsetting Merrillville was that they did the Duneland proud by bringing home the title.

3 hours ago, DT said:

Merrillville was heavily favored to repeat and win the 77 state title, but the Pirates were ambushed by an under the radar Portage team, losing 3-0 in the regional.  It was a monumental upset, one you rarely see at the high school level.  Merrillville had defeated Portage 34-7 during their undefeated regular season.  That 77 Merrillville team was probably the best outfit to ever come out of The Region.  

What about the '76 team? Valpo beat Merrillville in the regular season and the Pirates took the tournament game. Was that considered an upset? 

Was the Duneland the dominant conference in the state during the 70's?

58 minutes ago, psaboy said:

Interesting side topic here here, who is best program to never win a title, would that be Merriiiville??

I was wrong. Merrillville beat Cathedral in 1976 for the state title. Valpo beat Carmel for the state title in 1975.

9 minutes ago, scarab527 said:

They won a state title during the cluster system in the 70s, but not since the current tournament format has been implemented. One of the few teams statewide with a state title but no semistates. Either way, I think a DAC or SAC team wins 5A this year. 

Ring one up for the north? I could go for that. I just can't make an educated reply not knowing much about the south. Posters seem to be high on Whiteland and Decatur Central. 

5 minutes ago, scarab527 said:

All of the above. Social Media. 

I hope the Pirates are good. They are too good of a program historically to not have a state title to their credit. As long as it's not at the expense of a team from the SAC, I hope they get it done. Valpo is another good program that should have a better shot now that they are playing teams in their own weight class.

1 minute ago, scarab527 said:

In defense of those people, the Pirates have won 3 straight 6A regionals. I think it is fair to assume they'll be a force moving down to a class that is not nearly as good. But as I said, they are certainly not a lock, and from what I've been seeing, it seems like the Ville is getting a little cocky again, which hasn't done them any favors when push comes to shove these past two years...

They will be a force playing schools similar their size.

Not a lock by a long shot. I think this forum has thrown Snider and Dwenger into the "chump" category. If opposing coaches are that dumb, it's game over. 

2 minutes ago, scarab527 said:

You're ruthless

He's Temp.

I think Merrillville will have their hands full in the North. Whoever makes it out of the Fort Wayne sectional will be a force to be reckoned with. Snider, Dwenger, and North Side will be battle tested all season long and ready for a deep post season run. Throw in Valpo, Michigan City, and Mishawaka and I find it comical that everyone is calling this the Merrillville show. Two great seasons doesn't always equate to a third. 

On 7/1/2022 at 10:55 AM, temptation said:

But they would then have to give up those fierce rivalries against Navy, Stanford, Boston College and FSU to play a combo of OSU, UM, MSU, PSU and USC annually.

They escaping that gauntlet with less than two losses more often than not?

Or would they play Indiana, Nebraska, Northwestern, and Illinois?

5 minutes ago, Indiana Fan said:

What does Carmel and CG do now then? Almost impossible for them to find games

Ink deals with Fort Wayne schools.

1 minute ago, crimsonace1 said:

They like the randomness and unpredictability and tradition of the sectional. 

Hoosier Hysteria

1 minute ago, crimsonace1 said:

Remember, the main reason they won't seed is because the basketball coaches want a blind draw and they want to keep all tournaments the same (but they acknowledge football is different when 6A & 5A were smaller classes ... yet went out of their way to kill a proposal to limit 4A in basketball/baseball/volleyball to 64 schools under the same spirit). 

Why would basketball coaches want a blind draw? Whether it's football or basketball, the two best teams shouldn't meet in the first round. I maintain that overall tournament revenue will go up with a seeded system. But the tournament should be seeded anyway based on principle alone. 

16 minutes ago, crimsonace1 said:

Sagarin's ELO CHESS ranking does not take into account margin of victory. 

You likely use some combo of Sagarin (especially ELO CHESS) and head-to-head/common opponents. It would not be terribly difficult in most sectionals, especially for the top two and bottom two. 

Anything is better than what we have now. I think the IHSAA has the brain capacity to come up with a good solution. 

2 hours ago, Muda69 said:

https://www.indystar.com/story/sports/high-school/2022/07/20/indiana-football-coaches-anonymous-answers-on-seeding-ihsaa-tournament/65375858007/

(Note: story is behind a paywall)

 

Of course it is, just like the Fort Wayne newspapers. Too bad they are all left leaning, it's costing them millions. Don't mix business with politics...........it's a death sentence. 

2 minutes ago, temptation said:

Does that incentivize scheduling soft/running up the score?

I would say so. I like the idea of using the ranking, but some coaches will abuse it when already up 35 points. 

1 hour ago, temptation said:

Has any statewide data been collected recently?  One would have to think that central Indy coaches would be heavily in favor but do they speak for the rest of the state?

And of course the million dollar question every time this topic comes up:  HOW?

Talk Jeff Sagarin into compiling stats from the first half only, then use his ranking. 

13 minutes ago, Footballking16 said:

Can’t argue too much with that. I’d think Zionsville would be better than Fishers though?

Any input on teams north of metro Indy? Elkhart the biggest “threat” out of sectional 1 or 2?

Carroll lost some studs. I'm not sure they are a program that is top level every year, but I think Dinan has them on the cusp. They certainly have the student body and facilities to succeed. The Chargers should have a fighting chance in Sectional 2. Homestead is probably the team to beat in the Northeast. They seem to be pretty good every year without fail. But Sectional 3 will be brutal with HSE and Fishers. 

Temp says: "SAC good." There ya go Temp, now you don't have to post it yourself. 

On 7/14/2022 at 5:43 PM, scarab527 said:

- No Norwell in 3A

Doesn't matter. They'll finish in the Top 10. Take it to the bank.

9 hours ago, DT said:

Where are you going with this?

Transfers. Ben Johnson seems motivated to make a contender out of North Side. He's got some studs.

32 minutes ago, temptation said:

Been waiting…

Saw that coming.

5 minutes ago, psaboy said:

I'm was assuming you were thinking FWA area originally. The big challenge is can the teams outside the MIC and HCC get the week to week level of competition that those two conferences get. The SAC is making strides to do that, NIC & Duneland do to a degree. 

Correct