BTF

3 hours ago, Piratefan101 said:

I can agree the north needs to step up. But the top 5 favorites in 5A (4 in north) 

1A merrillville

1B DC

3. Valpo

4. city 

5. Mishawaka (yes I said Mishawaka) 

Looks good to me.

Don't overlook Dwenger. They were down last year, 5-4 in the SAC, and still managed a sectional championship. 

1 hour ago, CoachVeatch said:

Giving some small school (1A-2A) love here, Pioneer, Eastbrook, Adams Central, and Linton are as strong a programs as any, across all classes. The yearly combined records in the past 9 seasons put them each in the top 15 all classes in winning percentage. If you want more recent than that, the past 3 seasons you'd have to add South Adams and Eastside to that list.

There's a lot of good small school football going on in the state. 

Imagine these programs joining forces with nearby programs, bumping up their enrollment. Those four could argue for being one of the best programs in the state. Too much credit is given to to the mega schools for having the best programs. Best teams for sure. Best programs are debatable. 

25 minutes ago, BTF said:

It appears that this list went solely off of last years Sagarin Ratings. 

Minus the two lowest classes. 

It appears that this list went solely off of last years Sagarin Ratings. 

What makes Westfield a better program than Pioneer? 

What makes Hamilton Southeastern a better program than Adams Central?

Just curious what your criteria was when coming up with a list of "what makes a great program."

I would tune in for sure. 

4 minutes ago, temptation said:

No bigger fan of Homestead or Carroll in this forum then this guy…

Pretty good chance that neither of them will even win the SAC this year. I just don't see them playing at a high 6A level this year. I hope I'm wrong. 

1 minute ago, temptation said:

Yep.  No doubt.

Warren was THE transfer destination then and had their FRL in the sweet spot also.

Everything CG is nowadays.

Your nerf gun is out of bullets @Footballking16.

I'm ready for some football.

7 minutes ago, temptation said:

3-9 against Warren in the 2000’s though…

He must’ve gone to some coaching clinics in 2011, huh?

Warren Central had Kevin Wright in the 2000's, that has to account for something.

4 minutes ago, Footballking16 said:

Warren doesn't enjoy the enrollment advantage they once did. There's now 11 Indy-area high schools who have 3,000+ kids and Westfield and Center Grove are fast approaching. 

Valid point. Not the advantage they once had. But an advantage nonetheless if you couple their enrollment with a good coach. Time will tell. 

6 minutes ago, temptation said:

Reading is hard for some.

Like I said in an earlier post, I'll defer to the Indy guys on this topic of Warren Central. However, I have a hard time believing that a few transfers are enough to break a program that resides at a school with a student body of 3500 kids. I have to see it to believe it. They have a state championship to their credit in recent memory. 

12 minutes ago, psaboy said:

I am not sold on Hippenhammer as a P5 player, he has struggled. Maybe he would have turned out different at ND??

He had a hell of 2021 with Miami Redhawks. As far as being a P5 player, I think it just depends on which school. 

1 minute ago, Footballking16 said:

Didn’t ask you to agree with me.

Fair. I just think 25 football teams could make the same claim you are making. 

Just now, Footballking16 said:

I would take Cathedral’s daily/weekly preparation and commitment to being the best football program as humanly possible over any other teams in the state. I’m sure someone from CG, New Pal, etc will argue otherwise but you aren’t going to find many, if any schools who take football more seriously than Cathedral and are dead set on being a championship contender every single year. If you think Cathedral just goes through the motions M-Th and just shows up on Friday you would be severely mistaken.

Again, that's a hard claim to make considering you've never spent a day in the life of a football player at Dwenger, Pioneer, or Adams Central.............to name a few. 

10 minutes ago, Footballking16 said:

Tell me you don’t know the difference between a parochial school and an independently run private school without telling me you don’t know the difference between a parochial school and an independently run private school.

Top 1 percentile.

So one of the three hardest working teams in the state. Not sure how you can prove that. Not sure how any program could claim that. Let's just say they are Top 25. Somewhere between 1 and 25, but who really knows. 

25 minutes ago, Footballking16 said:

Not many teams going to outwork Cathedral, I’ll put a penny on that.

Its as real and as serous as it gets over there.

Not many? Would you say Cathedral is in the top five percentile?

3 hours ago, temptation said:

$/SES/nuclear households give P/P’s an edge…end of thread.

And some publics to be fair, but most those schools are already 6a.

1 hour ago, Footballking16 said:

What the hell does this even mean?

Mebuck took offense to the idea that his Bishop Dwenger Saints is one of those schools that has no boundaries. I've never known Dwenger to actively recruit kids outside of their feeder system. They pretty much do it all from within. So like I say, kudos to them. 

59 minutes ago, tango said:

Give us evidence of "private training" being the secret sauce of P/P success. That is silly in the context of football. Tennis maybe. Coach Ralph is known for a tremendous S&C program. Are you saying all the kids do private training? 

The top twelve state championship leaders are as follows, no particular order.

Privates: Chatard, Cathedral, Luers, Roncalli, LCC,  & Ritter

Public: Carmel, Ben Davis, Sheridan, Warren Central, & Penn. Sheridan won most of their championships in 1a without a strong presence of a private school. The other are all in the top half of enrollment of the largest class, something even the privates can't compete with. 

Maybe it's just coincidence. Maybe private schools and large enrollment schools just work harder than their counterparts. But I doubt it. The evidence is right there in front of you. If you or anyone else on this forum can't see it, then there's nothing I can really do to help you. 

3 minutes ago, DT said:

Here is how the PPs are individually impacted by the 2.0 Multiplier.  

 

The only school that looks overmatched in the new classification is Bishop Noll.  

 

89    Indianapolis Roncalli    1081 x 2 = 2162 to Bump to 6A

92    Indianapolis Cathedral    1073x2 = 2146 Bump to 6A

110    Fort Wayne Bishop Dwenger    928  x2 = 1856  Bump to 5A

118    Brebeuf Jesuit    841 x2 = 1682  Bump to 5A

122    South Bend Saint Joseph    806 x2 = 1612 Bump to 5A
 

135    Guerin Catholic    740  x 2 = 1480  Bump to 4A

149    Mishawaka Marian    690  x 2 = 1380 Bump to 4A

152    Indianapolis Bishop Chatard    667x2 = 1334 Bump to 4A

164    Fort Wayne Concordia    610  x2 = 1220  Bump to 4A

175    Evansville Memorial    556 x2 == 1112  Bump to 4A
 

 

196    Indianapolis Cardinal Ritter    502 x 2 = 1004  Bump to 4A

199    Evansville Mater Dei    496  x 2 = 992  Bump to 4A
200    Heritage Christian    496  x 2 = 992  Bump to 4A

202    Hammond Bishop Noll    493 x 2 = 986 Bump to 4A

210    Fort Wayne Bishop Luers    481x2 = 962  Bump to 4A

224    Indianapolis Scecina    439  x 2 = 878   Bump to 4A

237    Andrean    408 x 2 = 816  Bump to 4A

 

 

253    Park Tudor    378* x 2 =756  Bump to 3A

260    Covenant Christian (Indpls.)    352 x2 = 704  Bump to 3A


278    Lafayette Central Catholic    296 x 2 = 592  Bump to 3A

283    Bowman Academy    285 x2 = 570  Bump to 3A


307    Indianapolis Lutheran    224 x2 = 448  Bump to 2A
308    Indianapolis Tindley    219   x 2 = 438  Bump to 2A

316    Traders Point Christian    124 x 2 = 248  Bump to 2A

Have you run the numbers on a 1.5 multiplier DT? Not sure I'm onboard with the 2.0. I'm torn. 

5 minutes ago, tango said:

So the success is because of private training? Is that why New Pal had so much success a few years ago? 

New Pal's community isn't exactly destitute. Find a better example please. 

11 hours ago, Mebuck said:

Life is not fair,  Dwenger plays 5A because they had 3 great years. They are a 4A school for now. The student numbers will put them in 3A when they drop back down. 95% of the kids come from feeders schools. Fort Wayne has open inrollment so the "recruiting" myth doesn't work.

No one is equating Dwenger to Cathedral. We know that Dwenger is built from the ground up...........kudos to them.

I agree with DT that we need a multiplier for the private schools. Ninety percent of a private school's population is privy to the kind of training that only 50% of students at a public school can afford. It's easy to preach "stop whining and bitching" when your school is stockpiling trophies at the expense of underprivileged competition. 

In all fairness, a public school that is rated highly in terms of socioeconomic status should also be given the multiplier treatment. 

1 hour ago, Footballking16 said:

Who do you think the is driving force behind CG’s youth league???

I have no doubt that Moore is in charge of everything from top to bottom. Not sure what I may have said to imply otherwise. 

15 minutes ago, temptation said:

It’s “passion” man.  Come on.

Not worth a response..............outside of "not worth a response."

16 minutes ago, Footballking16 said:

How instrumental was Coach Moore in not only establishing but ramping up CG’s bantam program? I don’t know the answer but I’ll guarantee you Coach Moore’s contributions to the CG football program and community go exponentially further than just X’s and O’s. Don’t kid yourself.

Did I imply differently?