BTF

1 minute ago, temptation said:

“A high school coaches’ pay scale”, lol.

Just stop.  Dude makes over 6 figures at the end of the day.

Then he should be producing championships. I don't think six figures is the norm for 99% of programs statewide. 

Great hire by Northrop. From Panther to Bruin..........ouch! That being said, it's a great opportunity for Coach Bowen.

6 hours ago, Bash Riprock said:

So the equation for success is ......  Large enrollments x $$ = automatic success and championships.

Nothing else matters.....who knew it was so simple? 

79% if we are being accurate. I think any coach in the state would be happy to start the season with those odds.

2 hours ago, Footballking16 said:

Center Grove wouldn’t be where they are today without its youth program.

Coach Moore. A diamond in the rough. Coaching is the third ingredient to a successful program, no one is denying that. But to ask every coach in the state to duplicate Moore's passion would be irresponsible................on a high school coach's pay scale. 

1 hour ago, Bash Riprock said:

If it were solely enrollment and $$, Carmel wins every year....

Good to know that CG is only a sporadic contender....😄

The three largest schools do in fact win almost every year. Twenty seven state championships...........nine each.

Dick Dullaghan, Chris Geesman, nor Russ Isaacs stuck around forever. Neither will Eric Moore. 

15 minutes ago, HoopsCoach said:

You are mistaking.  Carmel and BD have been #1 and #2 for around 15 years.  Both have had over 4000 students since 2007. Warren Central has been close to 4000, but never over.

Carmel 5327

Ben Davis 4557

Warren Central 3868

Thanks for clarifying. I thought something was off about my claim. The source I was using only considered 10-12 for Ben Davis for whatever reason. So those three schools, are in fact, the largest football schools in the state. 

3 hours ago, Footballking16 said:

BD and Carmel are the only two remaining 6A schools that have a significant enrollment advantage. Warren Central, while still a very big school, isn't as big as it once was in comparison to the rest of 6A. There's now 13 schools within 1,000 students of Warren Central and many are closing the gap rather quickly. They don't have a talent advantage over anybody right now. 10-20 years ago they would frequently line up 3-4 legit D1 prospects on either side of the ball and the game would be over by kick off against all but one or two opponents. That isn't the case anymore and I'm guessing will never be the case again going forward. 

Unless I'm mistaking, Warren Central is still ranked second in enrollment behind Carmel. It's Ben Davis that slipped down. 

1 minute ago, temptation said:

Oh it does.  I’ve gone on record as stating it’s the #1 reason BD and Warren remain “contenders.”

Take 1500-2000 students out of either and you have Arsenal Tech.

And "others" have gone on record dismissing the advantage that enrollments numbers have. I do give credit to the coaches that built championship teams at those schools. You have to be a good coach to do that. But it is a major advantage nonetheless. 

5 hours ago, temptation said:

What’s your definition of “ contending?”

Top 4. There is a reason Warren Central (9), Ben Davis (9), and Carmel (9) have 27 state championships between them. Coincidence? I think not. Enrollment? Highly probable. Carmel and Warren Central rank 1 & 2 in enrollment. Ben Davis was 3 or 4 during their run of 9 championships. Let's not pretend that enrollment doesn't play and ENORMOUS factor. 

13 hours ago, temptation said:

Spot on.

Disagree. Not with those enrollments. Ben Davis and Warren Central have enough talent in the halls for a good coach to have them contending every single year. 

Three recent Fort Wayne kids said no to the Irish. Austin Mack (Ohio State), Austin Robertson (Michigan State), and Mack Hippenhammer (Penn State). In all fairness, Hippenhammers offer didn't come until the last minute. That was a bad run for Fort Wayne, considering most kids prior to them accepted the Irish offers. 

19 minutes ago, Grover said:

I didn't say the school was circling the drain.  I was referring to their youth program.  And it is a relative term.  Their talent is getting decimated by rogue travel teams with daddy coaches.  As a result the kids aren't being as well coached, they aren't learning Warren's system, and they aren't learning loyalty to the program.  

Edit:  I'm pretty sure Warren won't be fielding an IEFA team this year.  They were a founding member and a dominant force for decades.  The last few years they have gotten sand kicked in their faces.  Now they're out.  I hope they get it sorted out and return.

Good stuff. I'll defer to you Indy guys on this. I'm still betting on Warren being a force while Kirschner is there. Time will tell. 

4 minutes ago, Grover said:

Warren's youth program was once among the best.  The last few years it has been circling the drain.  I know some people who help run it and it has to be driving them crazy but that sort of problem always spreads throughout the program.

A school like Warren Central might be "circling the drain," but with the talent at that schools disposal, a good coach should be able to right the ship in a matter of a couple of years.

Case in point: Harding high school out of Fort Wayne. A tiny version of Warren Central with an enrollment of about 600-700 kids. Pretty much the same socioeconomics as Warren Central. Probably mirror images of one another. At one time they were the laughing stock of the SAC. They won 19 games in the eight years leading up the arrival of Steve Cooley. He won 18 games in his first two years. That program had no development when he took over. But he had talent to work with, just as Kirschner has talent to work with at Warren Central. 

42 minutes ago, temptation said:

Eh, the departures (from both an athlete and a coaching point of view) don’t exactly paint a rosy picture.

Kirschner is proven so he gets the benefit of the doubt from me but I fear his best coaching days are behind him.

Still good enough to get the job done, no doubt but there is much more necessary to win a state title.

Question for the group, and I don’t have the answer)…

Kirschner left Mount Vernon and they won the state title THE VERY NEXT SEASON.  Telling or coincidence?

He definitely gets credit for building the Marauders to that level but the next guy finished the job.

Am I overthinking this one?

 

 

Mike Davis led the Hoosiers to the national championship a year after Bob Knight was fired. 

14 minutes ago, Footballking16 said:

Warren Central HAD a state championship coach already on the sidelines (two different schools I might add) and decided to leave for a bottom of the barrel program in the HHC. That’s should tell you everything you need to know about the direction Warren Central is heading.

Noted. Thanks

10 minutes ago, Footballking16 said:

That state champion coach went 4-5 last year. They’re likely not going to challenge for a state title the next few years.
 

Temp isn’t going to save you, in fact he’s already hurting your case, lamenting that Warren has already lost two starters to other programs. That isn’t a sign of a program on the rise.

I just think Temp is smart enough to know that you don't hire a championship coach and trend down. 

Most coaches don't rebuild and win championships in their first year. 

Anyway, whatever happens happens. No dog in the fight. 

13 minutes ago, Footballking16 said:

Never said Warren is in the gutter, simply disagree they are trending up. 

How can you not be trending up by hiring a state championship coach? Someone riddle me that please. Jump in Temp.

I don't buy the idea that a team doesn't have a shot without any Top 50 players. Football is a team sport which consists of 11 on offense, 11 on defense, and a slew of others on special teams. Sure top rated players help, but it's not the end all be all. 

Why are we acting like Warren is in the gutter? I could have swore they won the whole thing in 2018, correct me if I'm wrong. So they had a few down years, that means nothing. Again, good coach + big enrollment + lots of athletes = powerhouse. Someone keep a receipt on this please. 

Temp..........I'm misunderstanding your post. What I'm reading is that Warren had a kid transfer to Cathedral and Cathedral had one transfer to New Pal?

6 minutes ago, Footballking16 said:

Warren is sub .500 the last two years, lost to LC (scored 8 points) in the opening round of sectionals last year, and is now ducking premier opponents in the state. We have a very different definition of “trending up”.

Warren Central used to be in that same conversation with Ed’s, St. X, and Trinity as to who is the Midwest’s premier football program. Not any more they aren’t. 

I guess we'll have to revisit this conversations after two or three years with Kirschner at the helm. He won state titles at Ben Davis, he'll do the same at Warren Central. 

1 hour ago, Footballking16 said:

The way Warren has been trending? Absolutely.

Warren is trending up.

Big enrollment + Mike Kirschner = very dangerous. 

31 minutes ago, temptation said:

In fact, your squad just nabbed a free agent from Warren…

Another to New Pal…

To New Pal or from New Pal?

4 hours ago, NLCTigerFan07 said:

Obviously biased here - but the Michigan City at Warsaw game should be a good one to start the season after it has been moved up from the second week slot. This is the 4th game of the series, with the Wolves holding a 2-1 edge. 

Michigan City will look to start strong in their follow up to a semi-state run in 5A last year, while Warsaw has high expectations going into this season bringing back a lot of experience on both sides of the ball, including their QB, which is vital in the Bart Ball offense.

Agree.

15 minutes ago, Yuccaguy said:

Yes they are...Let's be serious! 

Perhaps one of the KY teams is a 'wash'...but 2/3 are better.  And that is NOT a swipe at the WC as it exists today.

Massive? Not buying it. Slight upgrade? Maybe. Only four years removed from a state championship. A proven coach taking over the program. Huge enrollment. Talent galore. Always have been a force, always will be a force. 

6 hours ago, HHF said:

HHF Week 1 Spotlite Games

**********************************

 

Carol at Fort Wayne Bishop Luers

Lures is loaded and a solid 2A favorite from the north. Caroll needs to win this game and do what it is supposed to do as a 6A School playing at 2A School, public or private.

 

Good test for Carroll right out of the gate. This will be the battle of co-conference champions. The Chargers will be pretty jacked up in wanting to avenge their loss to the Knights last season.  Was Carroll just a one year wonder last year? Or has Dinan's program taken that next step? You get the feeling that this team is right on the cusp. Luers will be ready, that we know. 

3 hours ago, Footballking16 said:

Probably works out better for Center Grove.

St. X, Trinity, St. Ed's, etc would likely love to get a chance to play Center Grove. All those are massive upgrades from the aforementioned. Doubt CG is losing any sleep over it. 

St. X, Trinity, and St. Ed's are "massive" upgrades over WC?

What is everyone's beef with Center Grove? It's my understanding that the MIC didn't want them because they dominated the country club sports and now they've taken over football. But why not schedule them as a non-conference opponent?