Lysander

Looks like it changed. Someone told me that a few weeks ago and I told them, “No way.” Guess I should have read it.

So you really think the administrators and parents who often struggle financially to keep the doors open (the LCC story is a remarkable one in that regard) are going to leave empty seats in the school because of a ridiculous IHSAA Class designation? Catholic schools can’t make it without parents lending a literal “physical” hand let alone leave seats empty. You really can’t imagine how little Bill Sahm, President at Chatard, could care about what Class the football team is in. If we can’t get past simply wrong (verging on ridiculous) assertions like this then there’s no hope for ever having any meaningful conversation.

“Thank You” (I’m out of emojis). CYO teams are tiny in numbers on the team compared to their public counterparts but are many in the number of teams. The result of that is: 1. Much more personalized coaching because of the generally greater ratio of coaches to players. 2. Much more playing time because of the smaller number of players….which, among other things, keeps kids engaged in the sport. Keeping kids engaged in the game is critical in CYO…and in Catholic Freshman football. 3. A multitude of position players when they arrive in HS. If there are 30 small CYO teams, then there are 60 QBs. One of the most prolific QBs ever at Cathedral was the second QB from his CYO team when he arrived at Cathedral as a Freshman. I don’t quarrel much with folks when they point out that there is ON THE WHOLE a different kid roaming the halls (with different parents as importantly) on P/Ps v. Publics that often have many who are there solely because they are directed to be but I will leave you all with a question. If the difference is solely the type of kid (more driven/motivated, more athletic…either or both) then why aren’t the halls of Chatard (since this conversation is, momentarily, focused on Chatard) simply replete with Basketball, Soccer, Baseball, etc. State Championship hardware? It has been, rightfully, noted here that a certain 3A team generally looks forward to wrestling matches v. Chatard. Other teams look forward generally to hoops games, etc. v. Chatard. Chatard Boys generally do ONE sport remarkably well….but are absolutely normal at best in most everything else. As regards football….something else or in addition must be at play. PS - I wrote this before reading @tango’s post which I think is very insightful. “Thank you” (still out of emojis).

I think that amounts to 3 points based on the way the IHSAA score keeps. Each progressive playoff victory, commencing with the Sectional Champuonship, adds another single point. A Regional Championship adds 1 point to the 1 point from the Sectional Championship previously acquired for a running total of 2 points in totality you’ve earned if you win Regional. That said, one change I’d suggest to the whole Success Factor dynamic is that the number of points required to stay up be reduced to 1…rather than 2.

Chatard played EC during the regular season for a few years in a row just a few years back. Frankly, between New Pal, Roncalli, Memorial, Reitz and Brebeuf any of them could win the South in 4A over Chatard. Not to mention any number of other teams could rise. 4A South is a bear. Cathedral is dropping down to 5A? Haven't they earned the prerequisite 2 points to stay up in 6A?

Could be wrong but I'm pretty sure when Coach Doyle was running the Chatard Freshmen program prior to his becoming head coach that they didn't even run the varsity offense and defense. My understanding was that they were serious and disciplined but really wanted to make it as fun as possible in order to retain kids in the sport.

Well, I'm not currently allowed within 400 feet of the program since that unfortunate incident involving a Brebeuf fan and a donkey earlier in the year. More seriously, it has been some years since my kids were in the program so everything I know is pretty much what everyone else knows outside of folks maybe sharing with me what they gleaned from the most recent QB Club gathering. I'm guessing @Just a dad is much informed than I these days. You know, its damn hard to find Bit 'O Honey these days. I generally have to get it direct shipped by the case.

What time is it….exactly?

Yep…totally get that. A beautiful deconstruction…from a certain perspective. The other teams have generally been to the West of Indy but I’m assuming it will consist of whatever teams didn’t have a say. Regardless….I know 3 teams that will be a part of it. Heh, heh, yeah, I did a double take when I saw they were the Knox “Redskins”….my knee jerk reaction was to look over my shoulder for the DEI pronoun Reichsmarschall to put me in cuffs when I wrote their mascot name earlier.

I reserve that appellation for only the most deserving.

I stomped the North Side playgrounds with my "Bit 'O Honey" after CJB finally checked into the nursing home. Have them all to myself these days.

Another reason why there shouldn't be an automatic Class bump for P/Ps. Outside of football......Chatard.....well....I think you fairly well know.

Seriously, are you like 10?

Keep that Memorial Kryptonite away!!! Along with the Arctic weather. Go North Chatard!

Coach, I’ll give you the benefit of the doubt that you don’t know the history of Chatard in 4A….but it’s going to be Tolstoy in length…but hardly as literary…I’ll leave that to @Muda and his misspelled acronyms. For the record, anyone bothering to read this likely should grab a cup of coffee. For the record, nobody is any less happy about Chatard being in 3A than Chatard football fans….at least this one, anyway. Pretty sure I represent a majority, though. With that, 4A is not always better than 3A..but it is in most years. Regardless, either 3A or 4A is almost always better than 5A – I include in this the 70% of the time 5A is ACTUALLY WON BY A BUMPED UP 4A TEAM. If Chatard could somehow ultimately claw its way through 4A into 5A, I doubt it would ever leave 5A. With that, let’s start with a recent history primer of Chatard in 3A and 4A (4A boldfaced and underlined😞 2013: (Year 1 of the Success Factor with 4 Points required to stay in 4A) Chatard wins Sectional v. Roncalli 28-8. They lose Regional, in a game that was decided late, v. New Palestine. This year was the start of New Pal’s great success under Coach Ralph. Their Chatard win was the first statewide sign something special was cooking there. Chatard earns 1 point. 2014: Chatard rolls over and supines itself to Roncalli 31-6 in Sectional after beating them 20-7 in the regular season. No further comment. Chatard earns 0 points…back to 3A. 2015: Chatard wins 3A State 2016: Chatard loses to Danville in 3A Sectional (Coach Vince Lorenzano’s last year) 2017: Chatard loses to Danville in 3A Sectional (Coach Rob Doyle’s first year) 2018: Chatard loses 3A Semi-State to Evansville Memorial…admittedly losing ugly. 2019: Chatard wins 3A State (CalPreps had Chatard ranked #3 All Classes…New Pal was ranked #1 All Classes) 2020: Chatard wins 3A State (CalPreps had Chatard ranked #6 All Classes). For the record, they beat later 4A state champion Roncalli 28-7 that year (Roncalli’s sole loss). 2021: Chatard loses to Roncalli in 4A Sectional 35-21. Lest folks forget, this was the year Roncalli with their monster line (just coming off a State Championship) was talked about much like East Central today….until they lost in an upset to Mt Vernon (who easily won State). Chatard earns 0 points. 2022: Chatard is put back in 3A (don’t ask me why…I still don’t understand it). Chatard wins 3A State. This is the history. Chatard has only ever been in 4A for 3 years. They’ve only been knocked out of 4A once in 2014 where they needed 4 points to stay up. That said, in 2024, have no doubt the slack jaws at the IHSAA will put Brebeuf, Chatard, Roncalli, Cincy Elder, Cincy St.X and Cincy Moeller in the same Sectional….or dream about it, anyway. Regardless, Brebeuf, Chatard and Roncalli WILL be in the same Sectional….because…. In its absolute worst years, Chatard will almost always be a top 5-10 4A team (I believe they should be in the North...for the record). Frankly, Chatard doesn’t seem to experience the same high/low swings Roncalli does. Still, historically Chatard will almost always also split 50/50 with Roncalli…who has a bit of a tradition, as well (but tends to have bigger “lows” than Chatard does in off years). When Roncalli is “good”, they’re “State Champion good”. Regardless, I have been told until my ears bleed that the IHSAA DEEPLY evaluates these Sectional groupings considering a multitude of factors including historic conferences…..yada, yada, yada….BS, BS, BS….smoke blowing up my hindquarters. Which has always been used to explain just how Roncalli’s next door, talking over the fence neighbor New Palestine is never paired with Roncalli in Sectional…but 45 minute North Indianapolis cross-county Chatard is ALWAYS paired with Roncalli. That said, can’t the IHSAA figure out a way to simply put Chatard, New Pal and Roncalli in 3 different Sectionals? Just that little effort would likely keep a prolonged and forever peace in 3A. Tragically, the IHSAA has continued to give us year after year the “Sectional of Death” in 3A (copyright to @foxbat) or equivalent which, by any consideration, is gerrymandered as Hell but always has Chatard in the crosshairs (along with every Indiana HS Catholic north of the Mason Dixon line)….but ultimately screws over tons of great teams like TV, HH, WL, Guerin and too many teams to mention. I’m still p!ssed off as to how badly Tippecanoe Valley was screwed over between Sectional pairings and the damn ping pong balls. I have no doubt they will continue that proud tradition into 4A next year…wherever those Catholic Schools might be. If the IHSAA truly gave a sh!t about the principle behind the Success Factor shouldn’t it ALSO be a consideration in that DEEP evaluation of Sectional pairings…or do you just let another equivalent of the 3A TW AD (some of you get the “code”) make the pairings in 4A as well? Up to this point, the IHSAA Sectional pairings appear nothing more than self-interested groupings by those school administrators involved in the decision making process with no actual consideration of the overall picture….those non-decision makers get the “Sectional of Death”. I’m as angry as anybody about Chatard being in 3A (whether they win or lose this Friday…or possibly the following week). The Success Factor can actually work if the IHSAA actively considers the principle behind it as regards Sectional groupings. I say this as someone who was a very vocal sceptic…just ask Coach Gallogly. If they don’t, and just allow it to become the playground for self-interested 4A ADs…like those behind the "Sectional of Death" in 3A, then nothing will be resolved. My guess is that, ultimately, those involved in the decision process at the IHSAA will most likely place self-interest over principle come Sectional announcement time. Please, prove me wrong. You can now return to the original thread....

Use your words….that’s what I always told my children. It’s a stretch…but try.

Good God…get over yourself and the imputed false virtue….it’s boring and way too self-congratulating. My best bet is that you’ve never heard of Laurel, Indiana (God forbid got liquored up there at the Long Branch, rode/wrecked dirt bikes there…or have pre-teen scars from the muffler burns), long closed Whitewater HS…..or Fairfield, Indiana where my relative’s unremembered farm and family life is at the bottom of a reservoir. Being “from” a place doesn’t make anyone special….whether large or small. Neither does being a pretentious @sshole….whether large or small.

“Tick off all my P&P buddies”….I’m just keeping a low profile. To be clear, I think the IHSAA as regards how they organize the tournament and absolutely refuse to at least internally seed Sectionals are a bunch of intellectually low grade Jackwads (think I made up a new and descriptive…and, yet, uncensorable noun….if that’s a “word” at all) yet have somehow ended up with the South Semi-State that seems to perfectly reflect the actual end result of a “seeded” South.

Screw the IHSAA, Coach Radtke has long earned the right to have his undefeated Knox Redskins to play on the “Field of Champions”. Winner take all!

Quite literally, Chatard’s only football field on site was dirt, rocks, periodic broken glass and goose poop (per Coach L). My oldest would often return home with cuts and bruises having nothing to do with the bump and grind of actual player v. player. The opponent was often the field as much as other players during practice. It alternated between mud and a dust bowl…..but it was only…however briefly…..grass….up until 2011 (I think…please feel free to correct me). Regardless, even after the new field in 2011(?), it was solely a practice field. Let’s not even mention the truly primitive weight room (if one could call it that) and the somewhat more than occasional staff infection in those medieval locker rooms. I can recall Tim Adams calling it the worst facility in the state…not so much being derogatory but rather as he marveled at it as proving facilities, ultimately, just don’t matter. Quite literally…”doing more with less” as I often hear from a team further down the street. As regards the Broad Ripple HS football field, I recall, Coach Carol Purichia talking about Chatard players in his day carrying and putting sod on the Broad Ripple field in preparation of the season. You do what you have to do when the only resources you have are a strong back and your own two hands. So, yes, Broad Ripple should be Holy Ground as regards Indiana HS Football. I admit to, often in jest, calling it “the Field of Champions”…but well……if blood, sweat and tears make a ground holy…. For all the talk about dynasties, unfair advantages, Success Factors, etc….what gets lost is the real history and the literal generational struggles it takes to consistently succeed. People only want to look at the championships today but not what it took to be there…sadly common in today’s instant gratification society. Amen.

Just to give one some idea how difficult it is to win an Indy CYO championship, I can recall a certain AAA Cadet St. Matthew team (very well coached btw….especially since I had nothing to do with it by that time) some years back that had what later turned out to be 2 future NFL lineman (8th graders) and a University of Louisville scholarship lineman (7th Grader)…..not to mention another lineman who ended up on the Top 50 Indiana HS players All Classes his Senior year. Literally a future D1 (plus) college line. By the time playoffs arrived, their two primary running backs were out. One (a later HS All-American in another sport) had broken his arm earlier in the season v. St. Simon and the other was concussed. Regardless, they still had a backup RB who later played for Ball State as a DB…a tough, athletic kid with speed. They lost to St. Michael in the semi-final in a 3-4 overtime game….and St. Michael later lost to St. Pius in the Championship. That’s how tough it is to claim an Indy CYO Championship. Guru, I’m truly sad to hear you are stepping away but have no doubt that you have had a life changing affect on these kids they will mark as definitive and guiding as they become great men, husbands and fathers. May God Bless you and yours, Sir.

27.5?

No, there’s really no influence. Certainly no direction as to offenses, defenses, etc. unlike, I think, at Center Grove. Pius is going to send kids to Chatard, Cathedral, Brebeuf and N. Central/LC. Not sure of the split. The coaching staff’s aren’t really influenced outside of any personal preference they might have towards a certain HS. That said, Coach Doyle (who is a practicing attorney) got his start as a CYO coach at Pius (I believe) many years back before becoming a long time Freshman coach at Chatard and now the varsity coach.

I’ll defer to Guru but I think it’s general number of players, ratio of 7/8, 5/6 and 3/4 players on those teams and perhaps some other factors. It’s been a few years….

My cousin and her husband, Danny, are both Connersville HS grads. After many years away working for Caterpillar in the Peoria area they moved back to Connersville to be closer to my Aunt and Uncle. This past Spring, my wife and I visited with them in Connersville over a long lunch along with my, sadly, recently widowed Uncle Morris. Connersville, as most us here likely know, has never had much of a football tradition and is, almost exclusively, a basketball town. Danny, knowing I’m a big follower of HS football stated, “You know, Connersville had a couple of pretty good years where it looked like they were going to become a seriously solid football school. They had this young coach named Russ Radtke. Then he moved on. You ever heard of him?” I chuckled inwardly and responded, “Yeah…he’s still floating around out there.” PS - I did later tell him just how successful and remarkable Mr. Radtke’s coaching career continued to be….to this day. Kudos and best wishes to Coach Radtke and the Knox HS Redskins as they visit the Chatard Trojans this Friday.