Lysander

Well, I'm not currently allowed within 400 feet of the program since that unfortunate incident involving a Brebeuf fan and a donkey earlier in the year. More seriously, it has been some years since my kids were in the program so everything I know is pretty much what everyone else knows outside of folks maybe sharing with me what they gleaned from the most recent QB Club gathering. I'm guessing @Just a dad is much informed than I these days. You know, its damn hard to find Bit 'O Honey these days. I generally have to get it direct shipped by the case.

What time is it….exactly?

Yep…totally get that. A beautiful deconstruction…from a certain perspective. The other teams have generally been to the West of Indy but I’m assuming it will consist of whatever teams didn’t have a say. Regardless….I know 3 teams that will be a part of it. Heh, heh, yeah, I did a double take when I saw they were the Knox “Redskins”….my knee jerk reaction was to look over my shoulder for the DEI pronoun Reichsmarschall to put me in cuffs when I wrote their mascot name earlier.

I reserve that appellation for only the most deserving.

I stomped the North Side playgrounds with my "Bit 'O Honey" after CJB finally checked into the nursing home. Have them all to myself these days.

Another reason why there shouldn't be an automatic Class bump for P/Ps. Outside of football......Chatard.....well....I think you fairly well know.

Seriously, are you like 10?

Keep that Memorial Kryptonite away!!! Along with the Arctic weather. Go North Chatard!

Coach, I’ll give you the benefit of the doubt that you don’t know the history of Chatard in 4A….but it’s going to be Tolstoy in length…but hardly as literary…I’ll leave that to @Muda and his misspelled acronyms. For the record, anyone bothering to read this likely should grab a cup of coffee. For the record, nobody is any less happy about Chatard being in 3A than Chatard football fans….at least this one, anyway. Pretty sure I represent a majority, though. With that, 4A is not always better than 3A..but it is in most years. Regardless, either 3A or 4A is almost always better than 5A – I include in this the 70% of the time 5A is ACTUALLY WON BY A BUMPED UP 4A TEAM. If Chatard could somehow ultimately claw its way through 4A into 5A, I doubt it would ever leave 5A. With that, let’s start with a recent history primer of Chatard in 3A and 4A (4A boldfaced and underlined😞 2013: (Year 1 of the Success Factor with 4 Points required to stay in 4A) Chatard wins Sectional v. Roncalli 28-8. They lose Regional, in a game that was decided late, v. New Palestine. This year was the start of New Pal’s great success under Coach Ralph. Their Chatard win was the first statewide sign something special was cooking there. Chatard earns 1 point. 2014: Chatard rolls over and supines itself to Roncalli 31-6 in Sectional after beating them 20-7 in the regular season. No further comment. Chatard earns 0 points…back to 3A. 2015: Chatard wins 3A State 2016: Chatard loses to Danville in 3A Sectional (Coach Vince Lorenzano’s last year) 2017: Chatard loses to Danville in 3A Sectional (Coach Rob Doyle’s first year) 2018: Chatard loses 3A Semi-State to Evansville Memorial…admittedly losing ugly. 2019: Chatard wins 3A State (CalPreps had Chatard ranked #3 All Classes…New Pal was ranked #1 All Classes) 2020: Chatard wins 3A State (CalPreps had Chatard ranked #6 All Classes). For the record, they beat later 4A state champion Roncalli 28-7 that year (Roncalli’s sole loss). 2021: Chatard loses to Roncalli in 4A Sectional 35-21. Lest folks forget, this was the year Roncalli with their monster line (just coming off a State Championship) was talked about much like East Central today….until they lost in an upset to Mt Vernon (who easily won State). Chatard earns 0 points. 2022: Chatard is put back in 3A (don’t ask me why…I still don’t understand it). Chatard wins 3A State. This is the history. Chatard has only ever been in 4A for 3 years. They’ve only been knocked out of 4A once in 2014 where they needed 4 points to stay up. That said, in 2024, have no doubt the slack jaws at the IHSAA will put Brebeuf, Chatard, Roncalli, Cincy Elder, Cincy St.X and Cincy Moeller in the same Sectional….or dream about it, anyway. Regardless, Brebeuf, Chatard and Roncalli WILL be in the same Sectional….because…. In its absolute worst years, Chatard will almost always be a top 5-10 4A team (I believe they should be in the North...for the record). Frankly, Chatard doesn’t seem to experience the same high/low swings Roncalli does. Still, historically Chatard will almost always also split 50/50 with Roncalli…who has a bit of a tradition, as well (but tends to have bigger “lows” than Chatard does in off years). When Roncalli is “good”, they’re “State Champion good”. Regardless, I have been told until my ears bleed that the IHSAA DEEPLY evaluates these Sectional groupings considering a multitude of factors including historic conferences…..yada, yada, yada….BS, BS, BS….smoke blowing up my hindquarters. Which has always been used to explain just how Roncalli’s next door, talking over the fence neighbor New Palestine is never paired with Roncalli in Sectional…but 45 minute North Indianapolis cross-county Chatard is ALWAYS paired with Roncalli. That said, can’t the IHSAA figure out a way to simply put Chatard, New Pal and Roncalli in 3 different Sectionals? Just that little effort would likely keep a prolonged and forever peace in 3A. Tragically, the IHSAA has continued to give us year after year the “Sectional of Death” in 3A (copyright to @foxbat) or equivalent which, by any consideration, is gerrymandered as Hell but always has Chatard in the crosshairs (along with every Indiana HS Catholic north of the Mason Dixon line)….but ultimately screws over tons of great teams like TV, HH, WL, Guerin and too many teams to mention. I’m still p!ssed off as to how badly Tippecanoe Valley was screwed over between Sectional pairings and the damn ping pong balls. I have no doubt they will continue that proud tradition into 4A next year…wherever those Catholic Schools might be. If the IHSAA truly gave a sh!t about the principle behind the Success Factor shouldn’t it ALSO be a consideration in that DEEP evaluation of Sectional pairings…or do you just let another equivalent of the 3A TW AD (some of you get the “code”) make the pairings in 4A as well? Up to this point, the IHSAA Sectional pairings appear nothing more than self-interested groupings by those school administrators involved in the decision making process with no actual consideration of the overall picture….those non-decision makers get the “Sectional of Death”. I’m as angry as anybody about Chatard being in 3A (whether they win or lose this Friday…or possibly the following week). The Success Factor can actually work if the IHSAA actively considers the principle behind it as regards Sectional groupings. I say this as someone who was a very vocal sceptic…just ask Coach Gallogly. If they don’t, and just allow it to become the playground for self-interested 4A ADs…like those behind the "Sectional of Death" in 3A, then nothing will be resolved. My guess is that, ultimately, those involved in the decision process at the IHSAA will most likely place self-interest over principle come Sectional announcement time. Please, prove me wrong. You can now return to the original thread....

Use your words….that’s what I always told my children. It’s a stretch…but try.

Good God…get over yourself and the imputed false virtue….it’s boring and way too self-congratulating. My best bet is that you’ve never heard of Laurel, Indiana (God forbid got liquored up there at the Long Branch, rode/wrecked dirt bikes there…or have pre-teen scars from the muffler burns), long closed Whitewater HS…..or Fairfield, Indiana where my relative’s unremembered farm and family life is at the bottom of a reservoir. Being “from” a place doesn’t make anyone special….whether large or small. Neither does being a pretentious @sshole….whether large or small.

“Tick off all my P&P buddies”….I’m just keeping a low profile. To be clear, I think the IHSAA as regards how they organize the tournament and absolutely refuse to at least internally seed Sectionals are a bunch of intellectually low grade Jackwads (think I made up a new and descriptive…and, yet, uncensorable noun….if that’s a “word” at all) yet have somehow ended up with the South Semi-State that seems to perfectly reflect the actual end result of a “seeded” South.

Screw the IHSAA, Coach Radtke has long earned the right to have his undefeated Knox Redskins to play on the “Field of Champions”. Winner take all!

Quite literally, Chatard’s only football field on site was dirt, rocks, periodic broken glass and goose poop (per Coach L). My oldest would often return home with cuts and bruises having nothing to do with the bump and grind of actual player v. player. The opponent was often the field as much as other players during practice. It alternated between mud and a dust bowl…..but it was only…however briefly…..grass….up until 2011 (I think…please feel free to correct me). Regardless, even after the new field in 2011(?), it was solely a practice field. Let’s not even mention the truly primitive weight room (if one could call it that) and the somewhat more than occasional staff infection in those medieval locker rooms. I can recall Tim Adams calling it the worst facility in the state…not so much being derogatory but rather as he marveled at it as proving facilities, ultimately, just don’t matter. Quite literally…”doing more with less” as I often hear from a team further down the street. As regards the Broad Ripple HS football field, I recall, Coach Carol Purichia talking about Chatard players in his day carrying and putting sod on the Broad Ripple field in preparation of the season. You do what you have to do when the only resources you have are a strong back and your own two hands. So, yes, Broad Ripple should be Holy Ground as regards Indiana HS Football. I admit to, often in jest, calling it “the Field of Champions”…but well……if blood, sweat and tears make a ground holy…. For all the talk about dynasties, unfair advantages, Success Factors, etc….what gets lost is the real history and the literal generational struggles it takes to consistently succeed. People only want to look at the championships today but not what it took to be there…sadly common in today’s instant gratification society. Amen.

Just to give one some idea how difficult it is to win an Indy CYO championship, I can recall a certain AAA Cadet St. Matthew team (very well coached btw….especially since I had nothing to do with it by that time) some years back that had what later turned out to be 2 future NFL lineman (8th graders) and a University of Louisville scholarship lineman (7th Grader)…..not to mention another lineman who ended up on the Top 50 Indiana HS players All Classes his Senior year. Literally a future D1 (plus) college line. By the time playoffs arrived, their two primary running backs were out. One (a later HS All-American in another sport) had broken his arm earlier in the season v. St. Simon and the other was concussed. Regardless, they still had a backup RB who later played for Ball State as a DB…a tough, athletic kid with speed. They lost to St. Michael in the semi-final in a 3-4 overtime game….and St. Michael later lost to St. Pius in the Championship. That’s how tough it is to claim an Indy CYO Championship. Guru, I’m truly sad to hear you are stepping away but have no doubt that you have had a life changing affect on these kids they will mark as definitive and guiding as they become great men, husbands and fathers. May God Bless you and yours, Sir.

27.5?

No, there’s really no influence. Certainly no direction as to offenses, defenses, etc. unlike, I think, at Center Grove. Pius is going to send kids to Chatard, Cathedral, Brebeuf and N. Central/LC. Not sure of the split. The coaching staff’s aren’t really influenced outside of any personal preference they might have towards a certain HS. That said, Coach Doyle (who is a practicing attorney) got his start as a CYO coach at Pius (I believe) many years back before becoming a long time Freshman coach at Chatard and now the varsity coach.

I’ll defer to Guru but I think it’s general number of players, ratio of 7/8, 5/6 and 3/4 players on those teams and perhaps some other factors. It’s been a few years….

My cousin and her husband, Danny, are both Connersville HS grads. After many years away working for Caterpillar in the Peoria area they moved back to Connersville to be closer to my Aunt and Uncle. This past Spring, my wife and I visited with them in Connersville over a long lunch along with my, sadly, recently widowed Uncle Morris. Connersville, as most us here likely know, has never had much of a football tradition and is, almost exclusively, a basketball town. Danny, knowing I’m a big follower of HS football stated, “You know, Connersville had a couple of pretty good years where it looked like they were going to become a seriously solid football school. They had this young coach named Russ Radtke. Then he moved on. You ever heard of him?” I chuckled inwardly and responded, “Yeah…he’s still floating around out there.” PS - I did later tell him just how successful and remarkable Mr. Radtke’s coaching career continued to be….to this day. Kudos and best wishes to Coach Radtke and the Knox HS Redskins as they visit the Chatard Trojans this Friday.

It’s an old complaint on behalf of schools that historically might have played out of state games but I feel (perhaps inaccurately) that more teams than ever are playing out of state. If a team is playing 2 games out of state during the regular season that means that over 20% of the comparative data is wholly missing. There’s simply no way you can consider that an analysis lacking 20% of the games played (Sags) to be as predictive as a system that does incorporate those games (CalPreps) so long as the system including all games isn’t simply poorly constructed intrinsically. Admittedly, Sagarin, even with its faults is likely a heckuva better at evaluating than me holding my finger to the wind but it’s still…..flawed.

Gotta be honest, as someone who pays a lot of attention to Sags and CalPreps, I’m totally down with the transitive value being utilized to predict outcomes. You just need a lot of games (more inputs) played before it begins to become predictive…not a few or single game. In the end, I’ll trust the transitive value used en gros over most alternative. With that, I’m still very uncomfortable with Sags this year…even at this late stage of the season. Maybe just confirmation bias on my part but I really think the lack of incorporating out of state games in Sagarin seems to be more problematic than most any prior year I can recall.

Wow, that is absolutely amazing! Kudos again to the Crusaders.

Shout out to @Cyoguru and the St Michael Crusaders for their 14-6 Cadet AAA victory over the St. Pius Panthers yesterday in a hard fought win. Wistfully (to me), the PA system yesterday echoed names that have been heard on Indianapolis Catholic HS football fields both currently and for some decades. It’s a bit of a time warp to attend these great CYO games. Two questions for the Guru, though. First, just how many times have the Crusaders played in and or won the Cadet Championship in the last 20 years? Seems they are always playing this time of year. Second, and most importantly, is this most recent Championship the swan song for the Guru?

No disagreement on this end.

Interesting….EC.