Northwest Indiana Top 10

[BLACKGOLD2007]

On 8/4/2024 at 8:36 PM, BTF said:

"I'd bet" on Snider beating anyone not named Ben Davis, Brownsburg, or Center Grove last year. That's how good I think their defense was. I'm not "so sure" they would have beaten a Cathedral, Fishers, HME, Noblesville, Westfield, Crown Point, or Penn. Those were all very good teams. My final ranking had Snider at #4 last year, just my opinion. 

 

Strongest program? They certainly aren't a stronger program than Luers. Probably right there with Dwenger in the Saints current state of affairs. I would say because of resources they are Fort Wayne's 3rd strongest team. Program? No.

I'll defer to Penn folks on this one. I think they had a very good team last year. Just perplexed when I see them lose to Indy teams by big numbers. I get it, Indy teams are good. But they manhandled Valpo and Mishawaka last year and almost beat Crown Point. Just scratching my head at the Cathedral score is all. 

Good research on this. Snider's 39-31 loss to Cathedral in 2011 was in part due to several (5-6) starters sitting out that game for various reasons. Cathedral was very good and had Snider playing catchup the whole game, but I think the missing players could have made a difference in the outcome. 

Carmel was fortunate to beat Snider in 2018. Arguably Snider's worst self destructed collapse in program history. They were a 'roughing the punter' away from blowing Carmel out before the collapse began. Three of their last four losses against the Greyhounds were by three points or less. Two other losses came in overtime. The record is deceiving, that's been a pretty even series. 

Last ten years vs Indy:

Snider 33, Decatur Central 6

Snider 42, Warren Central 20

Carmel 20, Snider 6

Carmel 22, Snider 21

Westfield 23, Snider 17

Snider 64, New Pal 61

Snider 32, Westfield 24

Snider's had their asses handed to them on a few occasions prior to the past ten years, I'm not saying they didn't. But overall, they're pretty solid against Indy. I like Penn and have nothing against Homestead. I'm one of their biggest fans when they play Indy schools. 

If you ask me going into a Penn v Top Indy school, I as a Penn fan am putting my money on the Indy school. 

Penn's issue with Indy schools even back into the Geez era, was at times we really struggled with their speed. However, a Geez team if given a second chance closed the gap or came out on top in the rematch game.

Over the last twenty years Corey has had good football teams and really good football teams that ran into two of the best teams in Indiana football history and crapped the bed against an outstanding Carmel team.

I think the Cathedral series may have played out more evenly if Penn, could have maintained their high standards of competitiveness. Penn was a 6A semi-state fixture up to 2017. We went through a drought for about 5/6 seasons, and we are now in a position to get back into the mix. 

Penn needs to get Snider back on their schedule asap, this Northern Indiana Rivalry is a must, I will sacrifice the Mishawaka game every year for this to happen. If Penn gets Snider and Merrillville or CP on their schedule every year...their worthless schedule improves 10 fold. 

I hope the new coaching regime sees this issue and is working to correct it.

[Bobref]

15 minutes ago, BLACKGOLD2007 said:

The Penn Cathedral game last year was 110% a let down. Everything I heard is that the team just lacked motivation and enthusiasm to be there

Perhaps if regular season games were more than mere exhibitions leading up to the tournament, the Kingsmen would have shown up.

[BLACKGOLD2007]

10 minutes ago, Bobref said:

Perhaps if regular season games were more than mere exhibitions leading up to the tournament, the Kingsmen would have shown up.

I agree, if the playoffs were not all in format, the games would have more importance. However, a 1 loss Penn isn't getting left out of a tournament (in regards to last year only).

[BTF]

21 minutes ago, BLACKGOLD2007 said:

Penn needs to get Snider back on their schedule asap, this Northern Indiana Rivalry is a must

Been saying that for years. One of the best tournament rivalries in the state for two decades. These programs respect one another. I can't imagine these teams haven't reached out to one another, it's probably just not feasible. In a perfect world, Snider would replace East Noble for Penn and Warsaw for Warren Central or a Northern Indy program...........Noblesville, HSE, Fishers, Westfield, or Carmel. No offense to Warsaw, I just think their schedule needs an Indy flavor..........and after playing Mishawaka for two years, I utterly hate the thought of facing that offense. 

[BLACKGOLD2007]

33 minutes ago, BTF said:

Been saying that for years. One of the best tournament rivalries in the state for two decades. These programs respect one another. I can't imagine these teams haven't reached out to one another, it's probably just not feasible. In a perfect world, Snider would replace East Noble for Penn and Warsaw for Warren Central or a Northern Indy program...........Noblesville, HSE, Fishers, Westfield, or Carmel. No offense to Warsaw, I just think their schedule needs an Indy flavor..........and after playing Mishawaka for two years, I utterly hate the thought of facing that offense. 

And, right now with Warsaw being in 5A and Snider in 6A, there is no other offense in 6A that runs that style of offense....that I know of. I agree with playing a Warsaw or Mishawaka if you are going to see that style of offense in the playoffs. But, right now the bones shook out in a way that neither Penn or Snider benefit from playing either school. 

I like playing Mishawaka, but right now the rivalry needs to go back on the shelf, for a few years. I have talked to a couple people that are near the Elkhart program, they are saying the same thing we as Penn fans are saying, leaving the NIC needs to happen. The folks I talked to liked the prospect of moving to the DAC, and actually shot down the idea of moving to the NLC where they would culturally and geographically fit right in. 

I think if the DAC added Penn, Elkhart, New Prairie and a Hobart or Lowell in, the conference would be very competitive at the top and in the middle at the 4A and 5A level. 

A conference with Penn, Merrillville, Crown Point, Valpo running the top of the ticket and Elkhart, NP, Hobart, MC, and Chesterton or Lake Central as the next tier is a strong strong conference. 

[BTF]

8 minutes ago, BLACKGOLD2007 said:

And, right now with Warsaw being in 5A and Snider in 6A, there is no other offense in 6A that runs that style of offense....that I know of. I agree with playing a Warsaw or Mishawaka if you are going to see that style of offense in the playoffs. But, right now the bones shook out in a way that neither Penn or Snider benefit from playing either school. 

Bingo. 

 

8 minutes ago, BLACKGOLD2007 said:

I think if the DAC added Penn, Elkhart, New Prairie and a Hobart or Lowell in, the conference would be very competitive at the top and in the middle at the 4A and 5A level. 

A conference with Penn, Merrillville, Crown Point, Valpo running the top of the ticket and Elkhart, NP, Hobart, MC, and Chesterton or Lake Central as the next tier is a strong strong conference. 

That would lock the DAC in as the second best conference in the state. 

[temptation]

7 minutes ago, BTF said:

Bingo. 

 

That would lock the DAC in as the second best conference in the state. 

I mean, we’ve got 18 teams in the a big TEN, Stanford and Cal in the ACC, why not some schools nowhere near the dunes playing in the DUNELAND Athletic Conference, lol?

[BTF]

23 minutes ago, temptation said:

I mean, we’ve got 18 teams in the a big TEN, Stanford and Cal in the ACC, why not some schools nowhere near the dunes playing in the DUNELAND Athletic Conference, lol?

Why not? Driven T once proposed a northern super conference. All bets are off since it appears that high school football will follow in NCAA's footsteps regarding many issues. 

[temptation]

18 minutes ago, BTF said:

Why not? Driven T once proposed a northern super conference. All bets are off since it appears that high school football will follow in NCAA's footsteps regarding many issues. 

Just a bit hypocritical at the high school level in my opinion.

[BTF]

34 minutes ago, temptation said:

Just a bit hypocritical at the high school level in my opinion.

Not saying I'm in favor of it. I would like to see Penn and Elkhart move over to the DAC though. 

[Boilerup]

Crown point transfer from Tennessee ( Symborski)  will be making a bit of noise on offense and defense! 

[US31]

4 hours ago, BLACKGOLD2007 said:

I like playing Mishawaka, but right now the rivalry needs to go back on the shelf, for a few years. I have talked to a couple people that are near the Elkhart program, they are saying the same thing we as Penn fans are saying, leaving the NIC needs to happen. The folks I talked to liked the prospect of moving to the DAC, and actually shot down the idea of moving to the NLC where they would culturally and geographically fit right in. 

Membership in the NLC does nothing for Penn football....and most other sports.  

Penn should be trying to play CG and Carmel every year while they are still persona non grata around Indy.

[BLACKGOLD2007]

4 hours ago, temptation said:

I mean, we’ve got 18 teams in the a big TEN, Stanford and Cal in the ACC, why not some schools nowhere near the dunes playing in the DUNELAND Athletic Conference, lol?

I get what you are saying, the problem for Penn and Elkhart they are on an island with no schools of relative similar size. Like I have mentioned before, Penn and Elkhart can go East or West, and it doesn't really change much. Size wise the Duneland makes more sense, however maybe Fort Wayne would be a better fit overall, bring Warsaw into the fold as well. 

We complain about Penn's weak schedules...This is a way to fix that issue right away. 

1 hour ago, US31 said:

Membership in the NLC does nothing for Penn football....and most other sports.  

Penn should be trying to play CG and Carmel every year while they are still persona non grata around Indy.

I never said that Penn should join the NLC, that comment was about Elkhart. 

[Komets2727]

6 hours ago, BTF said:

Been saying that for years. One of the best tournament rivalries in the state for two decades. These programs respect one another. I can't imagine these teams haven't reached out to one another, it's probably just not feasible. In a perfect world, Snider would replace East Noble for Penn and Warsaw for Warren Central or a Northern Indy program...........Noblesville, HSE, Fishers, Westfield, or Carmel. No offense to Warsaw, I just think their schedule needs an Indy flavor..........and after playing Mishawaka for two years, I utterly hate the thought of facing that offense. 

Been saying for awhile that Snider, Carroll, Homestead, and Dwenger may need to look elsewhere for competitive games. What I am saying is the rest of the SAC teams do nothing for them. 

Edited August 9, 2024 by Komets2727

[BLACKGOLD2007]

18 hours ago, Komets2727 said:

Been saying for awhile that Snider, Carroll, Homestead, and Dwenger may need to look elsewhere for competitive games. What I am saying is the rest of the SAC teams do nothing for them. 

If those schools don't mind the drive...A Penn, Snider, Carroll, Homestead, Dwenger, Elkhart and Warsaw conference would be tough. That is 6 conference games with 3 non conference games where these schools can take on teams from Indy. 

Since W/L records don't matter in the tournament, these schools would be 100% ready for what is too come in the playoffs. For example Penn would go West for sectionals and would see top talent from teams like Snider and Carroll. That would make playing CP in sectionals more palatable. 

[Komets2727]

3 minutes ago, BLACKGOLD2007 said:

If those schools don't mind the drive...A Penn, Snider, Carroll, Homestead, Dwenger, Elkhart and Warsaw conference would be tough. That is 6 conference games with 3 non conference games where these schools can take on teams from Indy. 

Since W/L records don't matter in the tournament, these schools would be 100% ready for what is too come in the playoffs. For example Penn would go West for sectionals and would see top talent from teams like Snider and Carroll. That would make playing CP in sectionals more palatable. 

Yes it would be

[temptation]

46 minutes ago, BLACKGOLD2007 said:

If those schools don't mind the drive...A Penn, Snider, Carroll, Homestead, Dwenger, Elkhart and Warsaw conference would be tough. That is 6 conference games with 3 non conference games where these schools can take on teams from Indy. 

Since W/L records don't matter in the tournament, these schools would be 100% ready for what is too come in the playoffs. For example Penn would go West for sectionals and would see top talent from teams like Snider and Carroll. That would make playing CP in sectionals more palatable. 

C’mon though seriously.  This is a fantasy right?
 

The IHSAA can’t look at folks with a straight face and cite “education based athletics” and then ask kids to ride on a bus for 90+ minutes each direction to play conference contests, particularly on a week night.

Edited August 10, 2024 by temptation

[BLACKGOLD2007]

3 minutes ago, temptation said:

C’mon though seriously.  This is a fantasy right?
 

The IHSAA can’t look at folks with a straight face and cite “education based athletics” and then ask kids to ride on a bus for 90+ minutes each direction to play conference contests, particularly on a week night.

But, in the non football sports Penn regularly plays teams from Ft. Wayne and the Region during the regular season, during the school week. Good AD's should be looking to make those weekend or Friday night games. This is not anything different for those teams. 

 

[temptation]

4 minutes ago, BLACKGOLD2007 said:

But, in the non football sports Penn regularly plays teams from Ft. Wayne and the Region during the regular season, during the school week. Good AD's should be looking to make those weekend or Friday night games. This is not anything different for those teams. 

 

Betting it’s not that easy.

[Komets2727]

38 minutes ago, temptation said:

C’mon though seriously.  This is a fantasy right?
 

The IHSAA can’t look at folks with a straight face and cite “education based athletics” and then ask kids to ride on a bus for 90+ minutes each direction to play conference contests, particularly on a week night.

Well, I can tell you there are basketball conferences in the North part of the state that regularly travel on weeknights to play games 90 minutes away. Football travel is easier as Friday or Saturday night games do not require going to school the following day for the students. Also, that fantasy conference would only require 3 away games for each team and 3 home games for each team. For example, use Snider in the scenario, their 3 out of conference games could be Warren Central, East Noble, and let’s say they want to play Luers. 

[BLACKGOLD2007]

54 minutes ago, temptation said:

Betting it’s not that easy.

You are right, it probably isn't that easy. But, if schools want to play the top teams around the state, the AD's are going to want the game on nights where the largest % of the local populate can come out. 

Up hear it isn't as uncommon to travel to play schools on the east and west edges of our state. 

[BTF]

57 minutes ago, temptation said:

C’mon though seriously.  This is a fantasy right?

Hopefully. I like the "bye" weeks. It gives starters an opportunity rest and the reserves an opportunity to fine tune their game. 

[temptation]

1 hour ago, Komets2727 said:

Well, I can tell you there are basketball conferences in the North part of the state that regularly travel on weeknights to play games 90 minutes away. Football travel is easier as Friday or Saturday night games do not require going to school the following day for the students. Also, that fantasy conference would only require 3 away games for each team and 3 home games for each team. For example, use Snider in the scenario, their 3 out of conference games could be Warren Central, East Noble, and let’s say they want to play Luers. 

There are 17 other sports.

[Komets2727]

13 minutes ago, temptation said:

There are 17 other sports.

True dat, just thinking football only. The SAC has teams from 2A to 6A in football, pretty wide disparity that can and does create mismatches in football. Here are the teams, hope I don’t forget anyone:

6A - Carroll, Snider, Homestead, Northrop

5A - North Side

4A - Dwenger, Wayne, South Side

3A - Concordia 

2A - Luers

In other sports, the large discrepancy in students isn’t as noticeable. 

[Boilernation]

On 8/9/2024 at 11:29 AM, Boilerup said:

Crown point transfer from Tennessee ( Symborski)  will be making a bit of noise on offense and defense! 

And of course he was a 2 time State Champion wrestler in Tennessee. Another year of Crown Point having a State Champion wrestler at LB. 6'2 210 Ball State recruit. He will be a very nice addition at TE as well. 

I read he was born in Crown Poing and moved to TN at the age of 7 for his father's job.