If I am wrong please correct me

[Trojanmp52]

On a punt if the ball hit the ground and the kicking team touches it then a member of the receiving team touches it the ball still goes to the receiving team. 

[ArmyVet80]

Not a ref, but if it is downed by the kicking team., It shouldn't matter if the receiving team touches it or not it should be a dead ball at that point. Maybe Bobref can confirm? 👍

[Irishman]

1 hour ago, Trojanmp52 said:

On a punt if the ball hit the ground and the kicking team touches it then a member of the receiving team touches it the ball still goes to the receiving team. 

I am pretty sure it would. I remember reading a scenario once that a player on a punt team taps the ball, a player on the return team picks it up and runs for about 15 yards and fumbles it, and the punt team recovers. The ruling was that the return team had the option of taking the ball at the spot the player on the punt team first touched it. The key is the punt team must have control of the ball. Not sure if my verbiage is exact, but you get the gist of it; that you are correct. Pretty sure I am missing something about the punt team touching it first being some type of illegal touching, but no flag is thrown. 
Similar scenario in a game I was an assistant in. We punt, cover it well, and our kids lazily slap at the ball and guys start running off the field. I see one guy running toward the ball, and I am saying in the headset 'that's a live ball' over and over and over and over again. the return team scored a TD. When coaches asked if I was sure, I said YEP, and then I asked, did any of you hear a whistle? 

[WestfieldRocks]

This is how it was explained on the Westfield Twitter (X) site after this play happened. A Westfield player slapped the ball back at the goal line to keep it from going into the end zone for a touchback. A CG player went to pick up the ball and fumbled it. The play by rule is a fumble, and the kicking team, in this case Westfield, recovered the fumble.

[Bobref]

As described, there’s no fumble, since the receivers never had possession. It’s a “muff.” The result is the same, though.  The kickers’ touching constitutes “first touching.” This entitles the receivers to choose to put the ball in play at the spot of first touching, or accept the result of the play. That’s provided there are no fouls during the play. If there are, it can get pretty complicated.

Edited August 24, 2024 by Bobref

[RocksFan23]

While on the subject of this game, refs called Westfield RB for a personal foul for “hurdling” or at least sure sounded like it. That a new rule this year? Seems very subjective, he jumped over a tackler next play and no flag

[Bobref]

38 minutes ago, RocksFan23 said:

While on the subject of this game, refs called Westfield RB for a personal foul for “hurdling” or at least sure sounded like it. That a new rule this year? Seems very subjective, he jumped over a tackler next play and no flag

“Hurdling is an attempt by a player to jump (hurdle) with one or both feet or knees foremost over an opponent who is contacting the ground with no part of his body except one or both feet.”

Hurdling is a foul in the high school code. Has been for a long time.

[Slobberknocker]

 

Punt play happen at 1:44:56

 

[Irishman]

1 hour ago, Slobberknocker said:

 

Punt play happen at 1:44:56

 

Yep, should have been CG’s ball there. 
Here is my question though. It’s hard to tell from this angle, but if the ball crossed the goal line when it was tapped back, is it a touchback? It looks to me like it did cross the line. And if it did cross the line, then the tap back does not come into play; should have been blown dead once the ball crossed the plane of the goal line. I am thinking the concept of where the ball is and not the player is the factor in other kicks being called a touchback or not. Or does possession factor in? 

[Bobref]

1 hour ago, Irishman said:

Yep, should have been CG’s ball there. 
Here is my question though. It’s hard to tell from this angle, but if the ball crossed the goal line when it was tapped back, is it a touchback? It looks to me like it did cross the line. And if it did cross the line, then the tap back does not come into play; should have been blown dead once the ball crossed the plane of the goal line. I am thinking the concept of where the ball is and not the player is the factor in other kicks being called a touchback or not. Or does possession factor in? 

The position of the ball is everything. If it breaks the plane of the goal line, it’s a touchback.

[oldtimeqb]

35 minutes ago, Bobref said:

The position of the ball is everything. If it breaks the plane of the goal line, it’s a touchback.

Could you explain the BJ's normal mechanics on a punt?  Why did the back judge throw a bean bag around the 10-11 yard line?  I thought the bag was thrown to mark the first touching. 

Edited August 24, 2024 by oldtimeqb

[RocksFan23]

8 hours ago, Bobref said:

“Hurdling is an attempt by a player to jump (hurdle) with one or both feet or knees foremost over an opponent who is contacting the ground with no part of his body except one or both feet.”

Hurdling is a foul in the high school code. Has been for a long time.

Thanks. Honestly had just never seen it called before. Figured like Leaping on a FG attempt

[cloudofdust]

9 hours ago, WestfieldRocks said:

This is how it was explained on the Westfield Twitter (X) site after this play happened. A Westfield player slapped the ball back at the goal line to keep it from going into the end zone for a touchback. A CG player went to pick up the ball and fumbled it. The play by rule is a fumble, and the kicking team, in this case Westfield, recovered the fumble.

First touching gives the receiving team somewhat of a free play. Even if the receiving team runs the ball back 40 yards and fumbles the ball, losing possession, they can opt to take the ball at the spot of first touching, if it occurred. Bottom line, if K touches the ball first at at any point, it is R ball.

Hard to believe this was enforced incorrectly. 

[Trojanmp52]

I know this is going to sounds like sour grapes and such, but a call that official got wrong on a rule not a judge meant call or a did not see, but did know the rules total effect the game.  

[Trojanmp52]

11 hours ago, RocksFan23 said:

While on the subject of this game, refs called Westfield RB for a personal foul for “hurdling” or at least sure sounded like it. That a new rule this year? Seems very subjective, he jumped over a tackler next play and no flag

Seen Carson Steele do it a few years back and called on it, first time heard of the rule when he did it.  Not a fan of the rule but it what it is.

[Slobberknocker]

Should the official have explained their ruling to CG? CG burned a time out to try to talk to officials. 

[Footballking16]

How did they get that wrong? That’s inexcusable.

[Bobref]

5 hours ago, Trojanmp52 said:

I know this is going to sounds like sour grapes and such, but a call that official got wrong on a rule not a judge meant call or a did not see, but did know the rules total effect the game.  

If you’re talking about the kick that was muffed, and subsequently awarded to the kicking team, you’re incorrect. The kick was touched first by the receivers, not the kickers, so there was no “first touching.” The call on the field was correct.

7 hours ago, cloudofdust said:

Hard to believe this was enforced incorrectly. 

It was not. The ball was touched first by the receiving team. The call was correct.

[Bobref]

2 hours ago, Footballking16 said:

How did they get that wrong? That’s inexcusable.

They didn’t.

[Bobref]

4 hours ago, Slobberknocker said:

Should the official have explained their ruling to CG? CG burned a time out to try to talk to officials. 

I’ll bet you $100 it was explained to both sidelines at the time. The crew is equipped with radios. I’m sure the R explained it to the wing officials, who explained it on their respective sidelines. If a team doesn’t like the explanation, and wants to burn a timeout to discuss it further, that’s on them.

[Bobref]

7 hours ago, oldtimeqb said:

Could you explain the BJ's normal mechanics on a punt?  Why did the back judge throw a bean bag around the 10-11 yard line?  I thought the bag was thrown to mark the first touching. 

The back judge uses a beanbag to mark the spot where the kick ends. This is usually a contrasting color bag, not the usual blue most crews use. A beanbag is also used to mark the spot of first touching. When during the game did this play occur? I’ll look at the Hudl video.

[Footballking16]

15 minutes ago, Bobref said:

They didn’t.

Huh? #27 in white very clearly touches the ball first.

[Bobref]

2 minutes ago, Footballking16 said:

Huh? #27 in white very clearly touches the ball first.

We must not be talking about the same play, since I spoke to the referee on the game and he was very explicit that the receivers touched the ball first and that’s why it was awarded to the kicking team at the end of the play.

[Footballking16]

2 minutes ago, Bobref said:

We must not be talking about the same play, since I spoke to the referee on the game and he was very explicit that the receivers touched the ball first and that’s why it was awarded to the kicking team at the end of the play.

I’m talking about the play in the Center Grove/Westfield game where the is video linked above.

[Slobberknocker]

Now I am very confused. I was at the game and watch the video multiple time and I did not see receiving (CG) touched the ball first. Mybe I am just blind