6A Tournament: OFFICIAL Thread

[23andCounting]

2 minutes ago, temptation said:

Eh.  More of a north versus south sorta thing.  

Then ring one up for Snider in 1981, 1986,  & 2004. Injuries were the reason they didn't win state those years.

 

[temptation]

41 minutes ago, 23andCounting said:

My presumption is that Crown Point is better than Penn or Carroll. We really don't know until they play.

And Fishers…who else?

38 minutes ago, 23andCounting said:

Then ring one up for Snider in 1981, 1986,  & 2004. Injuries were the reason they didn't win state those years.

 

Yawn.  They lost by 27 in 1981 and weren’t beating Warren in 2004.

[GOLDRUSH1985]

42 minutes ago, temptation said:

Eh.  More of a north versus south sorta thing.  

Plus, those didn’t happen on the biggest stage.

And Penn has been on the receiving end of those multiple times which makes them an easy target.

Warren (2003) and Ben Davis (2017) could have scored 100 in those games if they wanted to.

Sorry.

No need to be sorry , I'm over those games , you apparently not because you can't go a season without mentioning . 

3 minutes ago, temptation said:

And Fishers…who else?

Yawn.  They lost by 27 in 1981 and weren’t beating Warren in 2004.

I'll disagree on 2004 . Snider beats warren 7 out of 10 times in 2004 . 

[temptation]

33 minutes ago, GOLDRUSH1985 said:

No need to be sorry , I'm over those games , you apparently not because you can't go a season without mentioning . 

I'll disagree on 2004 . Snider beats warren 7 out of 10 times in 2004 . 

Down here in Indy we like to call that supporting evidence…

Even you have to admit that a defense that has the name “The Wild Bunch” getting abused is ironic and low key hilarious.

 

[23andCounting]

2 hours ago, GOLDRUSH1985 said:

No need to be sorry , I'm over those games , you apparently not because you can't go a season without mentioning . 

I'll disagree on 2004 . Snider beats warren 7 out of 10 times in 2004 . 

I'd say 5-5 without Lewis, 8-2 or 9-1 with. Won't argue with 7 of 10. Lots of things went Warren's way that night with Snider's best player on the sidelines. 

 

[23andCounting]

2 hours ago, temptation said:

And Fishers…who else?

Yawn.  They lost by 27 in 1981 and weren’t beating Warren in 2004.

Fishers? Yeah, probably. Who else? Don't know don't care. Just looking forward to how the season plays out.

Whatever makes you feel better regarding 2004. Weeks 1-9, Snider would have won in Warren's back yard.

Rod Woodson's 1981 team is a difficult one to explain, not doing it here. I'll PM you if you want. 

 

 

[23andCounting]

2 hours ago, temptation said:

Even you have to admit that a defense that has the name “The Wild Bunch” getting abused is ironic and low key hilarious.

 

Warren had more than home field advantage that game. Not only was it in Indy, it was played in a fairy tale environment. Real football outdoors? That's a different game at Freed Field. Outcome is the same, but MUCH different score. 

[GOLDRUSH1985]

2 hours ago, temptation said:

Down here in Indy we like to call that supporting evidence…

Even you have to admit that a defense that has the name “The Wild Bunch” getting abused is ironic and low key hilarious.

 

Like when we abused Center Grove in 2000 . Penn could of scored 50+ that game. Starters were pulled at halftime , that's called class . 

[GOLDRUSH1985]

2 hours ago, temptation said:

Down here in Indy we like to call that supporting evidence…

Even you have to admit that a defense that has the name “The Wild Bunch” getting abused is ironic and low key hilarious.

 

Sad part of all your post's is that you will be the first person to diminish the accomplishments of teenage kids and you never stepped foot on a high school football field as a player . I would think you would have to have something better to do, maybe not . 

[23andCounting]

9 minutes ago, GOLDRUSH1985 said:

Like when we abused Center Grove in 2000 . Penn could of scored 50+ that game. Starters were pulled at halftime , that's called class . 

No need to defend Penn's integrity. Arguably the best program this state has ever seen.  Penn's success goes back 5 decades. Really only Cathedral from the Indy area and compete with that. Carmel, Ben Davis, and Warren Central have more championships than Penn, but they are a bunch of up and down yo yo's. 

[23andCounting]

LAST 40 SEASONS
1986 through 2025 seasons
	W	L	Pct.
Penn	425	77	.847
FW Snider	392	98	.800
Heritage Hills	381	96	.799
Jimtown	375	112	.770
Linton	356	110	.764
Jasper	344	107	.763
Indy Chatard	388	124	.758
Ben Davis	376	121	.757
East Central	363	119	.753
Carmel	373	124	.751
Eastbrook	343	118	.744
Brownstown	334	115	.744
Homestead	321	115	.736
FW Dwenger	366	132	.735
Indy Cathedral	369	136	.731
Indy Roncalli	355	135	.724
New Palestine	332	129	.720
NorthWood	347	138	.715
Adams Central	344	143	.706
Ev. Reitz	323	135	.705
Center Grove	333	142	.701
Andrean	340	145	.701
Warren Central	327	140	.700
Hamilton SE	303	132	.697
Pioneer	317	143	.689

[Rodney]

you're really making me want to start talking trash about penn here

 

and I can't do that I'm still pulling for them to win their sectional

[23andCounting]

2 minutes ago, Rodney said:

you're really making me want to start talking trash about penn here

Not sure that's really possible if you look a the post above yours. 

[temptation]

46 minutes ago, GOLDRUSH1985 said:

Like when we abused Center Grove in 2000 . Penn could have scored 50+ that game. Starters were pulled at halftime , that's called class . 

And what did Warren and BD have at the half in 2003/2017?

How about Carmel?

[Rodney]

1 minute ago, 23andCounting said:

Not sure that's really possible if you look a the post above yours. 

thats my reason for wanting to

wins are cool and all

but what would it look like if Carmel played Penn's schedule and Penn played Carmel's.

also 1986 is pretty specific, lets change parameters to something more suitable to present day

2000>2025 only count wins of a school in the same class or higher than you.

[temptation]

38 minutes ago, GOLDRUSH1985 said:

Sad part of all your post's is that you will be the first person to diminish the accomplishments of teenage kids and you never stepped foot on a high school football field as a player . I would think you would have to have something better to do, maybe not . 

I’d hope that the 1985 in your username is your birth year but I’m willing to bet it isn’t, which is sad.

Go hug your great grand kids.

Penn isn’t relevant anymore but maybe they will be when your grand kids are all grown up.

[Rodney]

but thats all go Penn (until next season)

[temptation]

25 minutes ago, 23andCounting said:

LAST 40 SEASONS
1986 through 2025 seasons
	W	L	Pct.
Penn	425	77	.847
FW Snider	392	98	.800
Heritage Hills	381	96	.799
Jimtown	375	112	.770
Linton	356	110	.764
Jasper	344	107	.763
Indy Chatard	388	124	.758
Ben Davis	376	121	.757
East Central	363	119	.753
Carmel	373	124	.751
Eastbrook	343	118	.744
Brownstown	334	115	.744
Homestead	321	115	.736
FW Dwenger	366	132	.735
Indy Cathedral	369	136	.731
Indy Roncalli	355	135	.724
New Palestine	332	129	.720
NorthWood	347	138	.715
Adams Central	344	143	.706
Ev. Reitz	323	135	.705
Center Grove	333	142	.701
Andrean	340	145	.701
Warren Central	327	140	.700
Hamilton SE	303	132	.697
Pioneer	317	143	.689

These lists seem dominated at the top by teams that beat up on smaller schools in their conference annually.

Somebody had to say it:

[Komets2727]

10 minutes ago, temptation said:

These lists seem dominated at the top by teams that beat up on smaller schools in their conference annually.

Somebody had to say it:

Damn Temp, it is crap like this that has people jumping your a**. Always a back handed slap at something not pro Indy. Give praise where it is due my man

[23andCounting]

20 minutes ago, temptation said:

These lists seem dominated at the top by teams that beat up on smaller schools in their conference annually.

Somebody had to say it:

Hurts to see two teams from the north at the top. I get it. 

[23andCounting]

28 minutes ago, Rodney said:

thats my reason for wanting to

wins are cool and all

but what would it look like if Carmel played Penn's schedule and Penn played Carmel's.

also 1986 is pretty specific, lets change parameters to something more suitable to present day

2000>2025 only count wins of a school in the same class or higher than you.

How many head coaches has Carmel had over the past 5 decades? I don't know the answer, but I know it's a lot more than the three Penn's had. You can't argue the success and stability of the Penn program. At Carmel, it's just a bunch of different coaches who want an opportunity to win a state championship at a school with 5000 kids. See girls swimming. Comical and embarrassing at the same time. 

[temptation]

14 minutes ago, 23andCounting said:

Hurts to see two teams from the north at the top. I get it. 

Yep.  That’s it.

I’m sure the folks in central Indy would trade all of their hardware for regular season wins over Elmhurst, Harding, South Bend Adams and New Prairie.

5 minutes ago, 23andCounting said:

How many head coaches has Carmel had over the past 5 decades? I don't know the answer, but I know it's a lot more than the three Penn's had. You can't argue the success and stability of the Penn program. At Carmel, it's just a bunch of different coaches who want an opportunity to win a state championship at a school with 5000 kids. See girls swimming. Comical and embarrassing at the same time. 

Penn has a high bar but on the surface it’s impossible to “fail” at Penn.

7 guaranteed wins annually just by showing up.

Edited October 24, 2025 by temptation

[Rodney]

I think I broke grok

he couldn't find total W/L ratio for everyone since 2000 so he used dominance points from 2013-2022

## Top 25 Indiana High School Football Teams by Total Wins Since 2000

I was unable to find a pre-compiled, comprehensive list of total wins since 2000 for all Indiana high school football teams. However, based on available data from various sources, I can provide a ranking based on dominance metrics from 2013-2022 (as a proxy, since dominance is closely correlated with wins, rankings, and championships). For reference, Indianapolis Cathedral (a top team in that list) has 243 wins, 90 losses, and a .730 win percentage from 2000 to 2024 (including playoffs).

To present the data, here's the top 20 from the 2013-2022 dominance list (the source doesn't have a full 25, but these are the top). The points are calculated as: 25 points for No. 1 in state rankings, 24 for No. 2, etc.; 50 for No. 1 in national rankings, 49 for No. 2, etc.; 20 for each state championship; 10 for each championship game appearance. This reflects performance and wins in recent years, which likely places them high in total wins since 2000.

| Rank | Team (City) | Dominance Points (2013-2022) | Estimated Wins/Losses/Win % (Note: Proxy only; full since-2000 data not available) |
|------|-------------------|-------------------------------|-----------------------------------|
| 1 | Center Grove (Greenwood) | 478 | N/A |
| 2 | Cathedral (Indianapolis) | 308 | 243-90 (.730) (2000-2024) |
| 3 | Carmel | 285 | N/A |
| 4 | Ben Davis (Indianapolis) | 272 | N/A |
| 5 | Warren Central (Indianapolis) | 235 | N/A |
| 6 | New Palestine | 184 | N/A |
| 7 | Westfield | 171 | N/A |
| 8 | Indianapolis Bishop Chatard (Indianapolis) | 163 | N/A |
| 9 | Brownsburg | 138 | N/A |
| 10 | Avon | 132 | N/A |
| 10 | Columbus East (Columbus) | 132 | N/A |
| 12 | Roncalli (Indianapolis) | 122 | N/A |
| 13 | Penn (Mishawaka) | 116 | N/A |
| 14 | Fishers | 101 | N/A |
| 15 | Hamilton Southeastern (Fishers) | 98 | N/A |
| 15 | Lawrence Central (Indianapolis) | 98 | N/A |
| 17 | East Central (St. Leon) | 96 | N/A |
| 18 | Fort Wayne Snider (Fort Wayne) | 89 | N/A |
| 19 | Andrean (Merrillville) | 86 | N/A |
| 20 | Fort Wayne Bishop Dwenger (Fort Wayne) | 80 | N/A |

Note: The dominance points are from a 2023 MaxPreps analysis covering 2013-2022. For a full since-2000 ranking, a custom aggregation of year-by-year records from sources like IHSAA, AlmanacSports, and school sites would be needed, but that data is fragmented. If you have specific teams in mind, I can try to find their individual records.

[23andCounting]

6 minutes ago, temptation said:

Yep.  That’s it.

I’m sure the folks in central Indy would trade all of their hardware for regular season wins over Elmhurst, Harding, South Bend Adams and New Prairie.

Penn has a high bar but on the surface it’s impossible to “fail” at Penn.

7 guaranteed wins annually just by showing up.

You mean all the hardware at the three largest schools in the state? In all fairness, there are 100 current coaches who could win at Carmel, 90 at Ben Davis, 80 at Warren central, and maybe 40 at Penn. 

Snider and Penn's historical records speak for themselves. Try to discredit them all you want. Penn still has 5 state championships...........not the 11 each the three largest schools have, but still a pretty impressive resume. Snider has 3, could easily be 8 (not including 1981). Could  you imagine if Snider had 3500 plus kids? I'm sure were talking 11+ state titles. That's just common sense. 

[23andCounting]

7 minutes ago, Rodney said:

I think I broke grok

he couldn't find total W/L ratio for everyone since 2000 so he used dominance points from 2013-2022

## Top 25 Indiana High School Football Teams by Total Wins Since 2000

I was unable to find a pre-compiled, comprehensive list of total wins since 2000 for all Indiana high school football teams. However, based on available data from various sources, I can provide a ranking based on dominance metrics from 2013-2022 (as a proxy, since dominance is closely correlated with wins, rankings, and championships). For reference, Indianapolis Cathedral (a top team in that list) has 243 wins, 90 losses, and a .730 win percentage from 2000 to 2024 (including playoffs).

To present the data, here's the top 20 from the 2013-2022 dominance list (the source doesn't have a full 25, but these are the top). The points are calculated as: 25 points for No. 1 in state rankings, 24 for No. 2, etc.; 50 for No. 1 in national rankings, 49 for No. 2, etc.; 20 for each state championship; 10 for each championship game appearance. This reflects performance and wins in recent years, which likely places them high in total wins since 2000.

| Rank | Team (City) | Dominance Points (2013-2022) | Estimated Wins/Losses/Win % (Note: Proxy only; full since-2000 data not available) |
|------|-------------------|-------------------------------|-----------------------------------|
| 1 | Center Grove (Greenwood) | 478 | N/A |
| 2 | Cathedral (Indianapolis) | 308 | 243-90 (.730) (2000-2024) |
| 3 | Carmel | 285 | N/A |
| 4 | Ben Davis (Indianapolis) | 272 | N/A |
| 5 | Warren Central (Indianapolis) | 235 | N/A |
| 6 | New Palestine | 184 | N/A |
| 7 | Westfield | 171 | N/A |
| 8 | Indianapolis Bishop Chatard (Indianapolis) | 163 | N/A |
| 9 | Brownsburg | 138 | N/A |
| 10 | Avon | 132 | N/A |
| 10 | Columbus East (Columbus) | 132 | N/A |
| 12 | Roncalli (Indianapolis) | 122 | N/A |
| 13 | Penn (Mishawaka) | 116 | N/A |
| 14 | Fishers | 101 | N/A |
| 15 | Hamilton Southeastern (Fishers) | 98 | N/A |
| 15 | Lawrence Central (Indianapolis) | 98 | N/A |
| 17 | East Central (St. Leon) | 96 | N/A |
| 18 | Fort Wayne Snider (Fort Wayne) | 89 | N/A |
| 19 | Andrean (Merrillville) | 86 | N/A |
| 20 | Fort Wayne Bishop Dwenger (Fort Wayne) | 80 | N/A |

Note: The dominance points are from a 2023 MaxPreps analysis covering 2013-2022. For a full since-2000 ranking, a custom aggregation of year-by-year records from sources like IHSAA, AlmanacSports, and school sites would be needed, but that data is fragmented. If you have specific teams in mind, I can try to find their individual records.

You're not going to gain Temp's favor with that one. If only the past 25 years count, that puts Michigan as the 14th winningest program in the NCAA. That being said, I think "past 25 years" are for the Johnny-come-lately's who want to be included in the conversation.