Did anyone see??

[jets]

Watching highlights online- did anyone see the South Adams TD pass vs North Miami somewhere in the 3rd quarter (I believe ?)? 

Looked like a “hidden player” type deal where the player was “talking” with a Coach on the sideline- then when the ball was snapped took off down the sideline. 

Is there anything in the rule book addressing this situation?? 

Sorry for not providing a clip, I’m not that tech savvy.

[Bobref]

17 minutes ago, jets said:

Watching highlights online- did anyone see the South Adams TD pass vs North Miami somewhere in the 3rd quarter (I believe ?)? 

Looked like a “hidden player” type deal where the player was “talking” with a Coach on the sideline- then when the ball was snapped took off down the sideline. 

Is there anything in the rule book addressing this situation?? 

Sorry for not providing a clip, I’m not that tech savvy.

Can you say when in the game the play occurred? I’ll look at the Hudl video.

”Hideout” plays are illegal, and have been for a long time.

ART. 4 . . . It is illegal participation:

d.To use a player, replaced player, substitute, coach, athletic trainer or other attendant in a substitution or pretended substitution to deceive opponents at or immediately before the snap or free kick. 
 

9.6.4 SITUATION B: Following a kickoff return, A1 and A2 enter the field while A3, A4 and A5 move toward the sideline. A5 stops within the 9-yard marks while A3 and A4 continue toward the team box. The ball is blown ready for play with A3 and A4 outside the 9-yard marks and is snapped without a huddle and the quarterback throws a forward pass to A4, who has gone downfield as a wide receiver. RULING: This play is illegal because a pretended substitution is used to deceive the opponents. The penalty of 15 yards for the illegal participation foul will be administered from the previous spot since the foul occurred at the snap. (9-6-4d)

[jets]

9 hours ago, Bobref said:

Can you say when in the game the play occurred? I’ll look at the Hudl video.

”Hideout” plays are illegal, and have been for a long time.

 

ART. 4 . . . It is illegal participation:

d.To use a player, replaced player, substitute, coach, athletic trainer or other attendant in a substitution or pretended substitution to deceive opponents at or immediately before the snap or free kick. 
 

9.6.4 SITUATION B: Following a kickoff return, A1 and A2 enter the field while A3, A4 and A5 move toward the sideline. A5 stops within the 9-yard marks while A3 and A4 continue toward the team box. The ball is blown ready for play with A3 and A4 outside the 9-yard marks and is snapped without a huddle and the quarterback throws a forward pass to A4, who has gone downfield as a wide receiver. RULING: This play is illegal because a pretended substitution is used to deceive the opponents. The penalty of 15 yards for the illegal participation foul will be administered from the previous spot since the foul occurred at the snap. (9-6-4d)

While I don't know how to embed a video, I do know how to screenshot. (Hopefully you can see it) - looks like it is 3:52 left in the 3rd quarter. Granted, I haven't seen the entire play, just the highlight. Thanks

[Bobref]

28 minutes ago, jets said:

While I don't know how to embed a video, I do know how to screenshot. (Hopefully you can see it) - looks like it is 3:52 left in the 3rd quarter. Granted, I haven't seen the entire play, just the highlight. Thanks

Hudl video doesn’t show the dead ball interval, which is important to a complete understanding of the play. So, I spoke with the crew chief. This formation was brought up by the coach in the pregame conference. The receiver was inside the numbers after the ball was marked ready for play. He then moved out. It was not a part of the substitution process, so there was no impermissible deception. Legal play all the way.

[jets]

35 minutes ago, Bobref said:

Hudl video doesn’t show the dead ball interval, which is important to a complete understanding of the play. So, I spoke with the crew chief. This formation was brought up by the coach in the pregame conference. The receiver was inside the numbers after the ball was marked ready for play. He then moved out. It was not a part of the substitution process, so there was no impermissible deception. Legal play all the way.

So just so I understand - ball is marked ready for play (which happens very quickly now with the 40 second play clock)...team is "no huddle" tempo, so players are running on/off...Player A is inside numbers....coaches are yelling "Timmy get out, Timmy OUT"....so Timmy runs to sideline- ball snapped, TD.

You're explaining to me that is NOT deception and/or illegal?? 

 

[JustRules]

8 hours ago, jets said:

So just so I understand - ball is marked ready for play (which happens very quickly now with the 40 second play clock)...team is "no huddle" tempo, so players are running on/off...Player A is inside numbers....coaches are yelling "Timmy get out, Timmy OUT"....so Timmy runs to sideline- ball snapped, TD.

You're explaining to me that is NOT deception and/or illegal?? 

 

in your example, the coach yelling would be considered a substitution or simulated substitution so it would meet the requirements of an illegal participation. Based on Bobref's comment from the conversation with the referee, nothing like what you described happened.

[Irishman]

The video stream is still up on ihsaatv.org 

[Irishman]

I tried loading but cannot get the file small enough. It looks bad. The WR walked to the sideline as the team was moving to the LOS from the previous play. The WR is already by the sideline with the coach as they lined up. From across the field, he looks to be out for the play. 

[jets]

2 hours ago, Irishman said:

I tried loading but cannot get the file small enough. It looks bad. The WR walked to the sideline as the team was moving to the LOS from the previous play. The WR is already by the sideline with the coach as they lined up. From across the field, he looks to be out for the play. 

As I watched it- it seemed to violate the rules- why I asked. 

[Huge Football Fan]

Looks illegal. Can we get a definitive answer on legal or not legal?

[oldtimeqb]

On 11/21/2025 at 7:50 AM, jets said:

So just so I understand - ball is marked ready for play (which happens very quickly now with the 40 second play clock)...team is "no huddle" tempo, so players are running on/off...Player A is inside numbers....coaches are yelling "Timmy get out, Timmy OUT"....so Timmy runs to sideline- ball snapped, TD.

You're explaining to me that is NOT deception and/or illegal?? 

 

I don’t see how the SA play was legal. 1st down - wide toss to the NM sideline. Player is tackled. Wing toss the ball to the umpire who places it down. 

Perhaps I don’t understand what ‘Ready for Play’ means. But as the umpire sets the ball, you can see the SA player 1 step off and sideline. Furthermore, two coaches are in the Restricted area at the snap. 
 

[jets]

42 minutes ago, oldtimeqb said:

I don’t see how the SA play was legal. 1st down - wide toss to the NM sideline. Player is tackled. Wing toss the ball to the umpire who places it down. 

Perhaps I don’t understand what ‘Ready for Play’ means. But as the umpire sets the ball, you can see the SA player 1 step off and sideline. Furthermore, two coaches are in the Restricted area at the snap. 
 

I agree- I wasn’t exactly sure what the rule stated (why I started the thread asking for clarification)- but am a little disappointed it hasn’t been further explained/or just admitted- “yup, we blew that one in a BIG WAY in a BIG GAME.” We’re human, it can happen…but feels a bit like a “cover for your own” type of deal in the responses. 

[jets]

It bothers me how quiet the officiating community has been in response to this play. 

[jets]

On 11/26/2025 at 6:03 PM, jets said:

It bothers me how quiet the officiating community has been in response to this play. 

Still bothers me…

[Huge Football Fan]

On 12/26/2025 at 6:00 PM, jets said:

Still bothers me…

Did we ever get a final answer on this?

[Bobref]

2 hours ago, Huge Football Fan said:

Did we ever get a final answer on this?

It’s on my to-do list. Just haven’t gotten to it yet.

[US31]

😇😁

 

Edited January 23 by US31

[jets]

My conspiracy regarding this: 

It's illegal. It's a "hidden player" scenario ran in a huge, semi-state level game. By Bob's own admission earlier in this thread- "hideout" plays have been illegal for quite some time. 

Bob checked with the crew chief (again, by his own admission) - and the crew chief gave Bob a plausible explanation for why they allowed the play. 

Video evidence (as captured by screenshots in this thread) strongly contradicts the explanation given by the crew chief.

Nobody wants to admit blame....Bob doesn't want to admit he was either : 1. Lied to ......2. A semi-state official doesn't know the rules.......

If I'm North Miami, I would be pretty upset this was allowed by the officiating crew. 

 

[Irishman]

One thing to consider is that prior to every game the officials meet with the head coach during their warm ups. They ask if there is anything they should keep an eye on. That is time to explain things you have seen an opponent do on film that you think might be an issue. The officials will also ask the head coach if he has any trick plays he plans on running. At that time, the coach describes the play in detail, and the officials will let him know whether it is a legal play or not. So the description of the play passed muster. A coach might even let the side judge on his side know that it is coming. The message can be relayed to the white hat and the rest of the crew. That crew deemed it to be a legal play. Not saying one way or the other if the ruling was right, but I do think it is important to add details that had not been mentioned yet. 

[US31]

20 hours ago, Irishman said:

One thing to consider is that prior to every game the officials meet with the head coach during their warm ups. They ask if there is anything they should keep an eye on. That is time to explain things you have seen an opponent do on film that you think might be an issue. The officials will also ask the head coach if he has any trick plays he plans on running. At that time, the coach describes the play in detail, and the officials will let him know whether it is a legal play or not. So the description of the play passed muster. A coach might even let the side judge on his side know that it is coming. The message can be relayed to the white hat and the rest of the crew. That crew deemed it to be a legal play. Not saying one way or the other if the ruling was right, but I do think it is important to add details that had not been mentioned yet. 

I'd add....how they "described" it to the crew, and how they actually executed it, aren't necessarily the same thing....watching the video, I don't see something that can be explained to me as legal.

[JustRules]

2 hours ago, US31 said:

I'd add....how they "described" it to the crew, and how they actually executed it, aren't necessarily the same thing....watching the video, I don't see something that can be explained to me as legal.

Exactly! That is often the case. We had a coach one time tell us he was going to run a fake punt by throwing a high arching pass to a gunner. The defender on the gunner will assume it's a punt and block the kicking team player from getting to it. Since it's a pass this is DPI (NCAA has an exception on this type of play to indicate that is not DPI...NFHS does not). We told him if there was contact on the intended receiver it very well could be DPI. Just before they ran the play he told the wing official on his sideline he was going to run it. This was before the use of radios so the official had no way to discretely communicate anything to the crew. The play happens as described and the ball falls incomplete. The coach goes nuts because there is no flag. The reason? The gunner did such a good job he beat the defender and 3 or 4 steps on him. There was no contact!

[jets]

On 2/12/2026 at 5:38 PM, Irishman said:

One thing to consider is that prior to every game the officials meet with the head coach during their warm ups. They ask if there is anything they should keep an eye on. That is time to explain things you have seen an opponent do on film that you think might be an issue. The officials will also ask the head coach if he has any trick plays he plans on running. At that time, the coach describes the play in detail, and the officials will let him know whether it is a legal play or not. So the description of the play passed muster. A coach might even let the side judge on his side know that it is coming. The message can be relayed to the white hat and the rest of the crew. That crew deemed it to be a legal play. Not saying one way or the other if the ruling was right, but I do think it is important to add details that had not been mentioned yet. 

Actually Bob did say that he spoke with the crew chief - and the crew chief mentioned the pregame talk with the coach and explanation of the play. So yes it has been mentioned. 

I just don't understand why it is so hard to say "Yup - we screwed this one up big time."

It happens...

[JustRules]

On 2/18/2026 at 11:10 AM, jets said:

Actually Bob did say that he spoke with the crew chief - and the crew chief mentioned the pregame talk with the coach and explanation of the play. So yes it has been mentioned. 

I just don't understand why it is so hard to say "Yup - we screwed this one up big time."

It happens...

That may be the short version, but it's usually much more complex than that. I expect he'll walk us through the mechanics and who is responsible for what to catch something like that. For example, the wing on that side is the only one who will have a clue that this is happening. If he doesn't see him there until shortly before the snap, he would have no idea if he was inside the numbers at the RFP or he got there my pretending to leave as a replaced player. If he doesn't know either of those things, he can't guess and flag it. That doesn't excuse the miss, but it explains how it can happen. The wings have so much dead ball responsibility, their focus may not have been on that player at that moment.

[US31]

[jets]

This has now turned into a JFK/Zapruder- like conspiracy for me. The silence screams out conspiracy at the highest levels...shame on everyone involved! 

[US31]

Circa 2034, when Bobref finally sits down with Jets, to talk about the '25 SA vs NM game.....