Irishman Posted June 1 Posted June 1 3 hours ago, tango said: I don't know if this is correct, but a quick search returned this... https://indianachoicescholarship.org/scholarship-qualifications/ I had not seen that change yet. Thanks for that link. I know Braun wanted to increase it….but wow. Keeping this about students, compare that to the fact that a single parent with 3 children cannot make more than $23,000 to qualify for assistance.
Cappy Posted June 1 Posted June 1 On 5/28/2026 at 10:46 AM, Titan32 said: Public schools are required to serve every student, follow public transparency laws, and answer directly to taxpayers. Schools accepting vouchers? Not always. If public money is funding education, shouldn’t the same standards apply to everyone? 📚 Yes, if a private school elects to accept government funding (in this case the voucher program) then that private school should be held to the same standards as a public school.
Bobref Posted June 1 Posted June 1 4 hours ago, Irishman said: But that is not where the money for vouchers comes from. 4 hours ago, Daniel_Bragg said: School vouchers are funded through the General Education Fund, which is funded via state level taxes, I.e. income tax, sales tax, etc. Property taxes fund the Operations budgets of the local school, unless a referendum has been passed. I was looking at it from the standpoint of the taxpayer.
Irishman Posted June 1 Posted June 1 59 minutes ago, Bobref said: I was looking at it from the standpoint of the taxpayer. Understood…add to it that unless the voters within a school district approved a referendum, at most only 43% of property tax money goes to the school district.
tango Posted June 1 Posted June 1 1 hour ago, Irishman said: I had not seen that change yet. Thanks for that link. I know Braun wanted to increase it….but wow. Keeping this about students, compare that to the fact that a single parent with 3 children cannot make more than $23,000 to qualify for assistance. That was kind of what I thought the guidelines were when I said I think the amounts are way too high... 1
Frozen Tundra Posted June 1 Posted June 1 19 hours ago, Bobref said: In effect it would be, if the mechanism is to give property tax relief. Whether the government collects less from you, or collects the full amount but gives some back in the form of vouchers, you arrive at the same place: you have more and the government has less. My point is that I don’t want the government involved with non-public schools at all. They shouldn’t be. 2
Plymouthfan91 Posted June 18 Posted June 18 On 6/1/2026 at 5:27 PM, Frozen Tundra said: My point is that I don’t want the government involved with non-public schools at all. They shouldn’t be. That's fine. Then you can't get the taxpayer money for your school.
Frozen Tundra Posted June 19 Posted June 19 On 6/18/2026 at 10:43 AM, Plymouthfan91 said: That's fine. Then you can't get the taxpayer money for your school. Good. That’s the way it should be. Private schools need to get their funds privately. This is two-fold. It allows taxpayer money to go toward public education and it keeps government from having any sort of influence on educational institutions that aren’t associated with government. Want to center your education around religious beliefs? Good. You should. But if you take money from the government, don’t be upset when they start trying to tell you how to do things. In other words, if you borrow money from the mob then don’t be surprised when they come to collect. 3
Muda69 Posted June 23 Posted June 23 On 6/19/2026 at 1:08 PM, Frozen Tundra said: Good. That’s the way it should be. Private schools need to get their funds privately. This is two-fold. It allows taxpayer money to go toward public education and it keeps government from having any sort of influence on educational institutions that aren’t associated with government. Want to center your education around religious beliefs? Good. You should. But if you take money from the government, don’t be upset when they start trying to tell you how to do things. In other words, if you borrow money from the mob then don’t be surprised when they come to collect. Your equating the government to organized crime is interesting. Getting government out of the education business entirely solves this problem.
Daniel_Bragg Posted June 25 Posted June 25 On 6/23/2026 at 7:58 AM, Muda69 said: Your equating the government to organized crime is interesting. Getting government out of the education business entirely solves this problem. Yep! Return authority to local school boards, and stop taking property taxes from other counties to spend elsewhere! ALL of my property taxes should remain within my community. Not taken from mine based on where I live, and distributed in other municipalities to "level the playing field".
Muda69 Posted June 25 Posted June 25 1 hour ago, Daniel_Bragg said: Yep! Return authority to local school boards, and stop taking property taxes from other counties to spend elsewhere! ALL of my property taxes should remain within my community. Not taken from mine based on where I live, and distributed in other municipalities to "level the playing field". Locally elected school boards with the power to issue municipal bonds still equals government. Just not the state or federal government. Your idea is a start however, unless the Indiana legislature actually replaces property taxes with a "service" tax: https://www.indystar.com/story/news/politics/2026/06/24/indiana-property-tax-repeal-schools/90659312007/
Daniel_Bragg Posted June 25 Posted June 25 36 minutes ago, Muda69 said: Locally elected school boards with the power to issue municipal bonds still equals government. Just not the state or federal government. Your idea is a start however, unless the Indiana legislature actually replaces property taxes with a "service" tax: https://www.indystar.com/story/news/politics/2026/06/24/indiana-property-tax-repeal-schools/90659312007/ So is your solution to not have school boards? I'm genuinely curious now.
Muda69 Posted June 25 Posted June 25 2 hours ago, Daniel_Bragg said: So is your solution to not have school boards? I'm genuinely curious now. Yes, basically. The function of educating a child should 100% be the financial responsibility of the parent or parents. Under a truly free market system of education they would be able to choose and pay for the education they feel is best for their children and their pocketbook. Any government funded K-12 education would be for poverty cases, and minimal at best. Most if not all could be funded by private charity, not taxpayer dollars. 1
Irishman Posted June 25 Posted June 25 Minimal at best.......laughable. Over 16% of children in Indiana live in poverty. That is over 250,000 young people, and someone really believes charitable organizations could effectively fund that. So delusional. The lack of vision in that logic is truly pathetic. Entire communities would be left without any type of school....then what? One way or another taxpayer dollars will be needed for whatever happens to them.
Muda69 Posted June 26 Posted June 26 13 hours ago, Irishman said: Minimal at best.......laughable. Over 16% of children in Indiana live in poverty. That is over 250,000 young people, and someone really believes charitable organizations could effectively fund that. So delusional. Only because it has never been tried. What is laughable is this continued delusion that just throwing more money at government K-12 education will fix all it's many failures. Not just laughable, but insane. And we the taxpayers are paying for the insanity. No, the heyday of government education is over. More and more taxpayers are wanting to change the system, and ultimately change it for the better. Only organizations like the ISTA/NEA union want to continue the failed status quo. 13 hours ago, Irishman said: The lack of vision in that logic is truly pathetic. Entire communities would be left without any type of school....then what? If there is a market for educational services in a community then businesses will open to fill that need. You really need to bone up on your basic economics. There is also home schooling and distance learning as viable options for parents. Or do you support the banning of those as well? 13 hours ago, Irishman said: One way or another taxpayer dollars will be needed for whatever happens to them. And I addressed that, but at a bare minimum amount.
Irishman Posted June 26 Posted June 26 So much willful ignorance in one post. Not even worth the time going through it. 1
Muda69 Posted June 26 Posted June 26 49 minutes ago, Irishman said: So much willful ignorance in one post. Not even worth the time going through it. Such casual dismissal coming from yourself, Irishman. I know it makes your feel morally superior, but your 100% bias in this matter and willing blindness to solutions is the real problem. Probably because it may threaten your livelihood in some matter.
Irishman Posted June 26 Posted June 26 6 minutes ago, Muda69 said: Such casual dismissal coming from yourself, Irishman. I know it makes your feel morally superior, but your 100% bias in this matter and willing blindness to solutions is the real problem. Probably because it may threaten your livelihood in some matter. Playing the victim again….no, the fact is that I have tried for close to 16 years now on this forum to have this conversation. I have explained in detail each point you think you are right about and the flaws in those points. The fact is you do not care about other people, especially young people at risk. You are just not worth the time.
Muda69 Posted June 26 Posted June 26 1 hour ago, Irishman said: Playing the victim again….no, the fact is that I have tried for close to 16 years now on this forum to have this conversation. I have explained in detail each point you think you are right about and the flaws in those points. The fact is you do not care about other people, especially young people at risk. You are just not worth the time. Nobody is playing the victim here other than you. And I have countered each of your points in turn. You simply don't want to consider a free market approach to education because it threatens you. These "young people at risk" would have opportunity for an education under a new system but because it is not exactly the system you and your ISTA flunkies approve of you both choose to hide under some ragged cloak of altruism. That you and you alone know how to "fix" our education system. Newsflash Irishman: You don't. Here is one recent example of an innovative approach to education. I'm sure you and other union members hate it: https://www.indystar.com/story/news/education/2026/06/25/what-is-a-microschool-find-one-indiana-funding-criticism/90674322007/ 1
Irishman Posted June 26 Posted June 26 Liar……You have not done a thing to address any of my points. Free markets would eliminate poor performing students, as well as lower functioning special ed students who are forced by law into regular classes as well as testing, including the SAT now. then what? More of them in those charity schools you think are an effective solution? You have never countered those points. As I have been saying for those 16 years, I have never claimed to alone know how to fix education….another lie from you. But I certainly know what would work and what has not worked. But I will take my experience in the classroom any day over your ignorant stance on what needs to be done. If you minimize, ignore, or simply cannot see the obvious and countless pitfalls by having just a for profit system with some sort of charitable system, then you are being willfully ignorant and bigoted. But I also know you are ok with being those things.
Muda69 Posted June 26 Posted June 26 1 hour ago, Irishman said: Liar……You have not done a thing to address any of my points PKB. 1 hour ago, Irishman said: Free markets would eliminate poor performing students, as well as lower functioning special ed students who are forced by law into regular classes as well as testing, including the SAT now. then what? More of them in those charity schools you think are an effective solution? You have never countered those points. Yes. A combination of charity and some sort of government education welfare program for the truly poor would provide the resources for their parents to pay for a private, non-government education. 1 hour ago, Irishman said: As I have been saying for those 16 years, I have never claimed to alone know how to fix education….another lie from you. No, just you and your ISTA/NEA "experts". Who have failed the taxpayers at every step. 1 hour ago, Irishman said: But I will take my experience in the classroom any day over your ignorant stance on what needs to be done. And I contend your "experience" blinds you to real and lasting change. You just want to perpetuate the current system because it provides you with a steady paycheck. How is your summer break going BTW? 1 hour ago, Irishman said: If you minimize, ignore, or simply cannot see the obvious and countless pitfalls by having just a for profit system with some sort of charitable system, then you are being willfully ignorant and bigoted. But I also know you are ok with being those things. Bigoted? Now you go too far, chief. Please explain how supporting getting government out of owning and operating K-12 schools makes me a bigot. If anything it is your insistence on maintaining the status quo in government education (aka " WE NEED MORE $$$$$$$!!!!!", "IT'S ALL THE PARENT'S FAULT JOHNNY CAN'T READ PAST A 3RD GRADE LEVEL!!!!!!!!!", etc.) that makes you just as bigoted.
Irishman Posted June 26 Posted June 26 So many lies…and I don’t give a rat’s behind if you think I went too far “chief”. You are touting a system that would clearly discriminate against a significant portion of our population. You even praised a charter school in North Carolina….completely tax payer funded, that only allowed certain christians to be admitted. The term for that kind of discrimination is called bigotry…..bigot. Stop with the pathetic status quo BS. Never once have I said such a thing. But I am done with this. You are not worth this much time. This is why there is no conversation going on in your forum. You are an absolutist. You are completely right and everyone else is wrong.
Muda69 Posted Monday at 11:53 AM Posted Monday at 11:53 AM On 6/26/2026 at 4:08 PM, Irishman said: So many lies… PKB. On 6/26/2026 at 4:08 PM, Irishman said: This is why there is no conversation going on in your forum. You are an absolutist. You are completely right and everyone else is wrong. No, not an absolutist. I have mentioned in this thread that there may be the need in certain communities for a small, government funded K-12 educational system, combined with private charity, for the truly poor. But such a system should be the exception, not the rule. On 6/26/2026 at 4:08 PM, Irishman said: Stop with the pathetic status quo BS. Never once have I said such a thing. That you willingly fail to recognize that the current government education system is the status quo is your problem, not mine.
Irishman Posted Monday at 06:27 PM Posted Monday at 06:27 PM 6 hours ago, Muda69 said: That you willingly fail to recognize that the current government education system is the status quo is your problem, not mine. That you willingly fail to understand anything regarding the topic and just stick to your own beliefs, and the bigotry inherent in those beliefs and the current alternatives is your problem.
Muda69 Posted Monday at 07:24 PM Posted Monday at 07:24 PM 56 minutes ago, Irishman said: That you willingly fail to understand anything regarding the topic and just stick to your own beliefs, and the bigotry inherent in those beliefs and the current alternatives is your problem. Ahh, I get it. Anybody who dares to criticize the current government education hegemony and offers a primarily non-government solution is automatically labeled a "bigot". Kind of like anybody who criticizes the actions and policies of the Israeli government is labeled a anti-semite. The status quo must endure. At any cost. 1
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