IU/PU Recruiting Hitting the Skids?

[Guest DT]

https://247sports.com/Season/2021-Football/CompositeTeamRankings/

Both schools have dropped 10 to 12 positions in the lates rankings?

Yes, COVID is wreaking havoc with everything form practice to games played to recruiting, but these latest rankings are not encouraging., especially for Indiana given their great success this year and all the attention and focus on Tom Allen.

IU has stockpiled a lot of young talent, but slipping into the 60s is cause for concern.  I would think IU and PU should both be firmly entrenched in the mid 40s, but we are nowhere near there

What is the spin on this?

Surely there are some explanations.

[Footballking16]

1 hour ago, DT said:

https://247sports.com/Season/2021-Football/CompositeTeamRankings/

Both schools have dropped 10 to 12 positions in the lates rankings?

Yes, COVID is wreaking havoc with everything form practice to games played to recruiting, but these latest rankings are not encouraging., especially for Indiana given their great success this year and all the attention and focus on Tom Allen.

IU has stockpiled a lot of young talent, but slipping into the 60s is cause for concern.  I would think IU and PU should both be firmly entrenched in the mid 40s, but we are nowhere near there

What is the spin on this?

Surely there are some explanations.

Small classes. IU has 13 commits as does Purdue and the rest of these schools have ~20. IU's average recruit rank is 86.86 per the composite which would rank 7th. But class rankings, especially 247, is built on quantity not quality. IU does have a Florida State transfer who is immediately eligible that was a 5 star ranked 48th overall in the 2017 class that doesn't factor into the recruiting rankings.

If we're getting technical, this is IU's best recruiting class of all-time based on the average rating of each player. 

Edited December 7, 2020 by Footballking16

[Staxawax]

1 hour ago, Footballking16 said:

Small classes. IU has 13 commits as does Purdue and the rest of these schools have ~20. IU's average recruit rank is 86.86 per the composite which would rank 7th. But class rankings, especially 247, is built on quantity not quality. IU does have a Florida State transfer who is immediately eligible that was a 5 star ranked 48th overall in the 2017 class that doesn't factor into the recruiting rankings.

If we're getting technical, this is IU's best recruiting class of all-time based on the average rating of each player. 

This. And it’s not spin, it’s fact. 

To even put IU and PU in the same sentence concerning recruiting at this moment in time is laughable. Brohm can no doubt recruit, but Tom Allen is the media darling right now. HS kids all over the country are seeing how much his players love playing for him. 

Brohm is trying to recapture the past traditions at Purdue.

Tom Allen is completely changing the culture of IU football.

I doubt Indiana will ever win a national championship, but they can be a consistent 9-10 win team and go bowling every year.  Kids see this. It makes Bloomington a desirable destination. 

[temptation]

7 minutes ago, Staxawax said:

This. And it’s not spin, it’s fact. 

To even put IU and PU in the same sentence concerning recruiting at this moment in time is laughable. Brohm can no doubt recruit, but Tom Allen is the media darling right now. HS kids all over the country are seeing how much his players love playing for him. 

Brohm is trying to recapture the past traditions at Purdue.

Tom Allen is completely changing the culture of IU football.

I doubt Indiana will ever win a national championship, but they can be a consistent 9-10 win team and go bowling every year.  Kids see this. It makes Bloomington a desirable destination. 

No they can't.  Sorry.  2020 is an anomaly and while I agree with your premise that they can "go bowling every year", 9-10 wins 2-3 times per decade is the ceiling in my opinion.

The Big Ten East will rebound and the Hoosiers will be lucky to get one of the big three (OSU, Michigan, PSU) annually.  To get to 10 wins that means running the table.  9 means they have room for one more slip up.

Make no mistake, what Allen has done this year is amazing but 2020 is the exception, and not the rule.

[Footballking16]

2 hours ago, temptation said:

No they can't.  Sorry.  2020 is an anomaly and while I agree with your premise that they can "go bowling every year", 9-10 wins 2-3 times per decade is the ceiling in my opinion.

The Big Ten East will rebound and the Hoosiers will be lucky to get one of the big three (OSU, Michigan, PSU) annually.  To get to 10 wins that means running the table.  9 means they have room for one more slip up.

Make no mistake, what Allen has done this year is amazing but 2020 is the exception, and not the rule.

9-10 over the top but don’t see why going 8-9 every year is out of the question? Assuming their non-conference schedule doesn’t beef up that’s been 3 easy wins. I think IU will be better than Maryland and Rutgers for the foreseeable future and not sold on MSU either. There’s 5-6 right there. Purdue and IU are going in opposite directions as programs and depending on the other two cross-over games, I think 8-9 is realistic even if they lose to the Big 3 every year.

[temptation]

4 minutes ago, Footballking16 said:

9-10 over the top but don’t see why going 8-9 every year is out of the question? Assuming their non-conference schedule doesn’t beef up that’s been 3 easy wins. I think IU will be better than Maryland and Rutgers for the foreseeable future and not sold on MSU either. There’s 5-6 right there. Purdue and IU are going in opposite directions as programs and depending on the other two cross-over games, I think 8-9 is realistic even if they lose to the Big 3 every year.

I think making any gross/overriding assumptions based on 2020 is a slippery slope.

Lets wait and see.

[Footballking16]

4 hours ago, temptation said:

I think making any gross/overriding assumptions based on 2020 is a slippery slope.

Lets wait and see.

Wait and see more than fair. But the gap between Indiana and UM/Penn State is a lot closer than the gap between UM/Penn State and Ohio State. With heads rolling in Ann Arbor and Happy Valley, Indiana has the potential to close the gap even more if they can keep the momentum. I don’t ever expect IU to routinely beat those two, but don’t think this year is an aberration.

[Guest DT]

8 hours ago, Staxawax said:

This. And it’s not spin, it’s fact. 

To even put IU and PU in the same sentence concerning recruiting at this moment in time is laughable. Brohm can no doubt recruit, but Tom Allen is the media darling right now. HS kids all over the country are seeing how much his players love playing for him. 

Brohm is trying to recapture the past traditions at Purdue.

Tom Allen is completely changing the culture of IU football.

I doubt Indiana will ever win a national championship, but they can be a consistent 9-10 win team and go bowling every year.  Kids see this. It makes Bloomington a desirable destination. 

As much as I love to see what is happening in Bloomington, Im not ready to down a gallon of the Allen Koolaid just yet.  We are emerging from 50 years of football futility.  I want to see a 3 year run of 8 to 9 wins annually before I declare this program ready for prime time.  It could all come crashing down very quickly.  

[Guest DT]

1 hour ago, Footballking16 said:

Wait and see more than fair. But the gap between Indiana and UM/Penn State is a lot closer than the gap between UM/Penn State and Ohio State. With heads rolling in Ann Arbor and Happy Valley, Indiana has the potential to close the gap even more if they can keep the momentum. I don’t ever expect IU to routinely beat those two, but don’t think this year is an aberration.

UM and PSU have the capability to turn on the jets, hit the afterburners and put some real distance between themselves and the next tier of BT contenders.  They have that kind of talent, or have quick access to that kind of program changing talent.  IU is still winning with fairly low recruited players.  In not buying the previous argumemt based on the rating.  There were only two 4 star players on the list for Indiana.  Michigan has 11, PSU has 5.  The 4 star players are the ultimate difference makers.  The schools that have them in depth are the long term winners

[AG]

17 hours ago, Footballking16 said:

9-10 over the top but don’t see why going 8-9 every year is out of the question? Assuming their non-conference schedule doesn’t beef up that’s been 3 easy wins. I think IU will be better than Maryland and Rutgers for the foreseeable future and not sold on MSU either. There’s 5-6 right there. Purdue and IU are going in opposite directions as programs and depending on the other two cross-over games, I think 8-9 is realistic even if they lose to the Big 3 every year.

They're not going in opposite directions. Next year has been seen by many Boiler fans as the make or break year as Brohm's first good recruiting class will be on campus for three seasons and his first full class will be on campus for four. Purdue wasn't supposed to be very good this season anyway. 

[Footballking16]

11 minutes ago, AG said:

They're not going in opposite directions. Next year has been seen by many Boiler fans as the make or break year as Brohm's first good recruiting class will be on campus for three seasons and his first full class will be on campus for four. Purdue wasn't supposed to be very good this season anyway. 

You don't really believe that do you? IU won 8 games last year (and likely to duplicate it again in a shortened year) and is building national momentum. Purdue fans couldn't stop crowing about who good they were going to be this year with a two-headed monster at wideout and an improved OL. Coupled with arguably the easiest schedule in the B10, just about every Purdue fan I knew couldn't talking about how the West went through Lafayette. Well Purdue is 2-4 and avoided their toughest game against Wisconsin.

And records probably aren't even the biggest concern. It's the overall demeanor and culture. Jeff Brohm looks absolutely lost on the sideline. His team plays with zero emotion, guys are opting out left and right, and are extremely undisciplined. Curious as to why you think next year will be any better for Purdue. They most certainly lose Rondale and while GK and Bell are terrific individual talents, the lack of development across the board is staggering. It's almost non-existent. Jeff Brohm, the QB whisperer and offensive genius has yet to recruit and develop a QB and his play-calling is downright inept. Heads are starting to roll in West Lafayette and as it stands now, Brohm has no control over his program.

On the other hand, IU is slated to return 75% of it's 2 deep (theoretically everyone could return given its a free year) and will be a top 15,20 ranked team going into next year. 

What are your serious expectations for Purdue next year? Going .500? Unless the OOC schedule is very favorable (I don't know) I don't see it. 

[temptation]

I've never seen a few weeks of success for a program that has been irrelevant for 30 years go to a fan base's head so quickly.  Wow.

[Footballking16]

24 minutes ago, temptation said:

I've never seen a few weeks of success for a program that has been irrelevant for 30 years go to a fan base's head so quickly.  Wow.

This isn't a culmination of a few weeks. This has been a decade in the making ever since IU started making legitimate financial contributions to its football program right around the beginning of the Fred Glass era. While Kevin Wilson was never the long term answer, he moved IU from B10 cellar to at least competitive. He paved the way for Tom Allen who has completely changed the IU football culture. And while I don't think IU will win 7-8 conference games a year consistently, they've overtaken Purdue.

[temptation]

7 minutes ago, Footballking16 said:

This isn't a culmination of a few weeks. This has been a decade in the making ever since IU started making legitimate financial contributions to its football program right around the beginning of the Fred Glass era. While Kevin Wilson was never the long term answer, he moved IU from B10 cellar to at least competitive. He paved the way for Tom Allen who has completely changed the IU football culture. And while I don't think IU will win 7-8 conference games a year consistently, they've overtaken Purdue.

I agree, but there is a post above that suggests they are an annual 9-10 win program.  Let's pump the brakes.  It's great to see them competitive and as you mentioned, they are not the IU of old, I just think that folks are placing A LOT of stock into 2020 when the national landscape of college football has been turned upside down.  I'll be MORE impressed if IU manages to go 9-3 next year than anything they do for the remainder of this season.

Allen is 2-2 (likely about to be 2-2) against Purdue and as this thread title indicates, neither team is tearing it up in the 2021 class thus far.  Slow down.

I've heard for the past few years that IU has overtaken Purdue in basketball, simply because they got three consecutive Mr. Basketball winners...

Edited December 8, 2020 by temptation

[Footballking16]

14 minutes ago, temptation said:

Allen is 2-2 (likely about to be 2-2) against Purdue and as this thread title indicates, neither team is tearing it up in the 2021 class thus far.  Slow down.

This is theoretically IU's best recruiting class of al-time in terms of average raw talent. Yes, the class doesn't rank well on the national scene because it currently only has 13 commits, but IU only loses 14 seniors this year that technically have a another eligibility if they want. But this is the deepest IU team I've ever seen and that speaks to Allen. Not many teams go into Madison and win very often, let alone with a back up QB down two offensive lineman.

[AG]

47 minutes ago, Footballking16 said:

You don't really believe that do you? IU won 8 games last year (and likely to duplicate it again in a shortened year) and is building national momentum. Purdue fans couldn't stop crowing about who good they were going to be this year with a two-headed monster at wideout and an improved OL. Coupled with arguably the easiest schedule in the B10, just about every Purdue fan I knew couldn't talking about how the West went through Lafayette. Well Purdue is 2-4 and avoided their toughest game against Wisconsin.

And records probably aren't even the biggest concern. It's the overall demeanor and culture. Jeff Brohm looks absolutely lost on the sideline. His team plays with zero emotion, guys are opting out left and right, and are extremely undisciplined. Curious as to why you think next year will be any better for Purdue. They most certainly lose Rondale and while GK and Bell are terrific individual talents, the lack of development across the board is staggering. It's almost non-existent. Jeff Brohm, the QB whisperer and offensive genius has yet to recruit and develop a QB and his play-calling is downright inept. Heads are starting to roll in West Lafayette and as it stands now, Brohm has no control over his program.

On the other hand, IU is slated to return 75% of it's 2 deep (theoretically everyone could return given its a free year) and will be a top 15,20 ranked team going into next year. 

What are your serious expectations for Purdue next year? Going .500? Unless the OOC schedule is very favorable (I don't know) I don't see it. 

I do believe it. A lot of Purdue fans are highly disappointed with this team, but I'm not because my expectations were .500 at best. I penciled this year in, 2-3 years ago, as a developmental year and next year as the breakout year. I'm expecting 7-8 wins next year.

[Staxawax]

2 hours ago, temptation said:

I agree, but there is a post above that suggests they are an annual 9-10 win program.  Let's pump the brakes.  It's great to see them competitive and as you mentioned, they are not the IU of old, I just think that folks are placing A LOT of stock into 2020 when the national landscape of college football has been turned upside down.  I'll be MORE impressed if IU manages to go 9-3 next year than anything they do for the remainder of this season.

For the sake of truthfulness, which I know you cherish, I said they CAN be a consistent 9-10 win program. Didn’t say they were there yet. Momentum is building. The next 4 recruiting classes will most likely determine the long term impact.

[temptation]

2 hours ago, Staxawax said:

For the sake of truthfulness, which I know you cherish, I said they CAN be a consistent 9-10 win program. Didn’t say they were there yet. Momentum is building. The next 4 recruiting classes will most likely determine the long term impact.

Define “consistent.”

To me, that means a minimum of 7-8 times each decade.

I’ll give you 2020 and we will revisit this in 2030?

[Staxawax]

35 minutes ago, temptation said:

Define “consistent.”

To me, that means a minimum of 7-8 times each decade.

I’ll give you 2020 and we will revisit this in 2030?

Fair enough. Keep in mind if they are a bowl bound team most years there is a 50%? chance of another win. Hopefully I’m still around in 10 years. 

[temptation]

2 minutes ago, Staxawax said:

Fair enough. Keep in mind if they are a bowl bound team most years there is a 50%? chance of another win. Hopefully I’m still around in 10 years. 

Yep.  10-3/9-4 gets it done.

[Staxawax]

https://www.thedailyhoosier.com/indiana-football-future-schedules/
 

Hoosiers doing a home and home with Cincinnati starting next year, Could be fun!

[NorthKnox94]

On 12/7/2020 at 3:19 PM, Staxawax said:

This. And it’s not spin, it’s fact. 

To even put IU and PU in the same sentence concerning recruiting at this moment in time is laughable. Brohm can no doubt recruit, but Tom Allen is the media darling right now. HS kids all over the country are seeing how much his players love playing for him. 

Brohm is trying to recapture the past traditions at Purdue.

Tom Allen is completely changing the culture of IU football.

I doubt Indiana will ever win a national championship, but they can be a consistent 9-10 win team and go bowling every year.  Kids see this. It makes Bloomington a desirable destination. 

lol...nothing makes Bloomington desirable...lol

[Bobref]

30 minutes ago, NorthKnox94 said:

lol...nothing makes Bloomington desirable...lol

Dude, after 4 yrs. at Notre Dame, I found a lot that made Bloomington desirable when I went to law school. 😉

[Boilernation]

1 hour ago, Bobref said:

Dude, after 4 yrs. at Notre Dame, I found a lot that made Bloomington desirable when I went to law school. 😉

Yeah, as a Purdue fan, it pains me to say Bloomington is a pretty cool little town. I drove around their downtown area and campus the last time I was down there, which was a few months ago. They have a lot of good night life choices and the campus is definately scenic. I will say though that downtown Lafayette is getting better. And West Lafayette is making strides in improving the village on State Street between Chauncey and Grant. 

Anyone notice Sam Jackson decommitted? That is a really, really, bad break for Brohm. 

Edited December 15, 2020 by Boilernation

[Bobref]

A question that has occurred to me a few times this season: has the importance of getting 5 star recruits right out of high school diminished due to the ease with which student athletes can transfer - especially grad students - and the ability to regularly supplement your roster that way?