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Commentary : Proposal to Make Enrollment based Adjustments to Class 5A and 6A


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Guest DT
Commentary : HHF Proposal to Make Enrollment based Adjustments to Class 5A and 6A
 
 
The IHSAA has gone to great lengths to make competitive balance a reality in both the regular season and in the state tournament as it relates to high school football in Indiana. From the additions of several classifications since the onset of the class structure in the early 70s, to the Success Factor, The Mercy Rule, etc, the IHSAA has worked diligently to give all schools equal access to regular season and post season success.
 
One gaping hole remains in the IHSAA's competitive balance playbook, and that is the treatment of small 6A schools in the largest enrollment based classification. Given that football is an overwhelming numbers dependent activity, the Indianapolis mega schools have put a stranglehold on the 6A state tournament. The MIC and its 4 football titans Ben Davis, Warren Central, Carmel and Center Grove own the 6A tournament, passing it back and forth amongsth themselves since the inception of the 6th class. The gap may be closing, as several other Indy area schools are now approaching "mega enrollment" status, schools like Avon, Fishers, HSE, Brownsburg who would like to think that they can play on a level field with The Big 4.
 
The challenge for the IHSAA comes at the bottom of the 6A enrollment chart. There are many schools that hover in the low 2000s range in enrollment who simply do not have the people resources to compete with schools at 50 to 100% higher in enrollment. Its a given, the state tournament results bear this out.
Solid football schools like Southport, Columbus North, Merrillville, Chesterton, Warsaw , Laf Jeff and Harrison, Jeffersonville, Whiteland, none have a realistic chance to represent their bracket in the 6A state title game. History tells us so.
 
The answer is to create a new Class 6A for the Top 24 schools in enrollment. This will create a new "Mega School " class, where 75% of the schools come out of the largest population center in the state. The others are large nearly 3000 student schools that have the resources needed to compete with the Indy megas.
5A has become a dull division, dominated by privates who have elevated to the class via the Success Factor, or vastly over achieving publics like New Pal who may or may not see that level of success again.
 
The small 6A schools mentioned previously would get a huge shot in the arm as their team goals just elevated from conference/sectional champion to 5A state champion. The IHSAA would likely see increased revenue at the state finals as new schools would be making the trip to Lucas Oil. Im sure the fans of Merrillville, Col North, Lafayette Jeff or Warsaw would love to have the opportunity to drive down to Indy to support their team in a 5A championship game.
 
We interviewed former commissioner Bobby Cox last week, and he voiced some general support for this change .
 
Scheduling and bye weeks will all work themselves out. We will leave that to the ADS and the IHSAA staff.
 
This change also sets a new enrollment range for 5A, which will be in the general range of 2200 high/ 1500 low. Thats very workable.
Some will say that the classifications are already too watered down. We dont need a 7th class. We just need a class that better regognizes the competitive differences between schools with large enrollments and schools with "mega" enrollments.
This proposal hits that target
 
Tim Phillips
Hoosier High School Football
 
 
Class 6A - Top 24 in Enrollment
1112 Carmel High School 1,359 1,338 1,267 1,322 5286 AAAAAA 1
2221 Ben Davis High School 1263 1075 1100 1061 4499 AAAAAA 2
3433 Warren Central High School 961 962 960 938 3821 AAAAAA 3
4344 North Central (Indpls.) High School 973 939 872 943 3727 AAAAAA 4
5 7 9 14 Fishers High School 950 887 862 810 3509 AAAAAA 5
6555 Penn High School 840 856 782 860 3338 AAAAAA 6
7866 Lake Central High School 827 850 795 844 3316 AAAAAA 7
8677 Pike High School 909 825 792 769 3295 AAAAAA 8
9988 Hamilton Southeastern HS 827 803 840 803 3273 AAAAAA 9
10 10 10 12 Avon High School 838 770 724 763 3095 AAAAAA 10
11 11 11 10 Noblesville High School 805 744 750 702 3001 AAAAAA 11
12 12 12 11 Crown Point High School 735 704 697 719 2855 AAAAAA 12
13 14 16 18 Brownsburg High School 726 676 693 715 2810 AAAAAA 13
14 13 13 13 Franklin Central High School 759 719 700 626 2804 AAAAAA 14
15 33 44 16 Indpls. Arsenal Technical High Schoo 614 716 696 582 2608 AAAAAA 15
16 17 19 20 Lawrence North High School 702 607 632 655 2596 AAAAAA 16
17 16 15 17 Center Grove High School 648 640 630 603 2521 AAAAAA 17
18 18 20 23 Perry Meridian High School 626 619 605 595 2445 AAAAAA 18
19 15 14 9 Portage High School 620 586 621 609 2436 AAAAAA 19
20 19 18 21 Homestead Senior High School 678 580 586 580 2424 AAAAAA 20
21 21 24 28 Carroll (F.W.) High School 597 652 598 565 2412 AAAAAA 21
22 25 34 40 Westfield High School 668 573 563 530 2334 AAAAAA 22
23 20 17 15 Lawrence Central High School 539 565 616 570 2290 AAAAAA 2
Elkhart High School
 
 
Class 5A - Schools 25-60 in enrollment (36 schools)
24 23 26 26 Southport High School 588 589 559 518 2254 AAAAAA 24
25 22 21 19 Merrillville High Sch 564 527 557 539 2187 AAAAAA 25
26 24 25 25 Warsaw Community HS 548 511 518 526 2103 AAAAAA 26
27 30 33 32 Lafayette Jefferson High School 587 492 546 438 2063 AAAAAA 27
28 31 28 29 Columbus North High School 568 535 470 490 2063 AAAAAA 28
29 28 29 30 Chesterton Senior High School 561 512 509 481 2063 AAAAAA 29
30 36 43 44 Zionsville Community High Sch 553 504 492 506 2055 AAAAAA 30
31 27 27 24 Valparaiso High School 511 477 529 537 2054 AAAAAA 31
62 61 63 68 Columbus East High School 383 373 342 377 1475 AAAAAA 32
CLASS AAAAA
19-20 17-18 15-16 13-14 SCHOOL NAME - by Enrollment 9th G 10th G 11th G 12th G Totals Class
32 29 23 27 Jeffersonville High School 536 506 498 495 2035 AAAAA 1
33 26 22 22 F.W. Northrop High School 500 536 492 504 2032 AAAAA 2
34 37 46 50 Harrison (W.Laf.) High Sch 515 533 472 459 1979 AAAAA 3
35 34 32 35 Castle High School 484 464 469 548 1965 AAAAA 4
36 38 41 42 Goshen High School 479 488 462 494 1923 AAAAA 5
37 41 48 52 Whiteland Community High Sch 506 488 438 484 1916 AAAAA 6
38 43 49 51 S.B. Adams High School 541 505 455 412 1913 AAAAA 7
39 40 42 39 F.W. Snider High School 474 474 452 460 1860 AAAAA 8
40 47 55 34 Decatur Central High School 441 484 492 428 1845 AAAAA 9
41 42 31 31 New Albany Senior High School 468 450 452 463 1833 AAAAA 10
42 32 30 36 LaPorte High School 494 427 462 436 1819 AAAAA 11
43 49 54 55 Floyd Central High School 442 455 458 460 1815 AAAAA 12
Football Enrollments and Classifications for 2019-20
44 35 36 37 Anderson High School 452 435 471 452 1810 AAAAA 13
45 45 50 43 McCutcheon High School 460 438 461 423 1782 AAAAA 14
46 39 40 33 Terre Haute North Vigo High Sch 541 421 406 401 1769 AAAAA 15
47 50 47 41 Bloomington High School South 415 462 449 421 1747 AAAAA 16
48 44 37 45 Terre Haute South Vigo High Sch 484 446 413 390 1733 AAAAA 17
49 52 53 58 Bloomington High School North 441 411 437 420 1709 AAAAA 18
50 56 62 66 Plainfield High School 434 415 433 414 1696 AAAAA 19
51 57 59 57 Evans. North High School 434 420 399 431 1684 AAAAA 20
52 51 57 61 Concord Community High School 420 431 375 431 1657 AAAAA 21
53 46 38 38 Kokomo High School 402 391 398 439 1630 AAAAA 22
55 48 51 46 Michigan City High Sch 406 390 406 409 1611 AAAAA 24
56 62 58 53 Franklin Community High Sch 405 396 382 407 1590 AAAAA 25
58 54 45 54 F.W. North Side High School 390 380 375 405 1550 AAAAA 27
59 66 77 81 Seymour Senior High School 376 375 388 383 1522 AAAAA 28
60 63 64 59 Munster High School 399 367 383 372 1521 AAAAA 29
0
 
 
 
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I wouldn't have a problem with this.  However, it doesn't affect my school.  One change I have mentioned on here several times is to make 5A a full 64 team tournament.  I feel there is no need for a bye week in 5A.  These school have somewhat unlimited athletes and resources.  It would be better for the 1A tournament to have 32ish teams.  Small schools have smaller rosters and more 2 way players.  A bye week would help these schools more than it would 5A schools.

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Guest DT
1 hour ago, superjay said:

I wouldn't have a problem with this.  However, it doesn't affect my school.  One change I have mentioned on here several times is to make 5A a full 64 team tournament.  I feel there is no need for a bye week in 5A.  These school have somewhat unlimited athletes and resources.  It would be better for the 1A tournament to have 32ish teams.  Small schools have smaller rosters and more 2 way players.  A bye week would help these schools more than it would 5A schools.

If you take Class 5A to a full 64 team tournament, you go all the way down to 1100 enrollment to reach the bottom of the class.  Thats a 2 to 1 spread between the top of the class and the bottom of the class.  Thats too big.  Football minded schools with 1500-to 1600 kids can compete well with schools of 1900 to 2200.  36 is the right number.  

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"Its become abundantly clear to me that maintenance of the status quo is the new mantra of the IHSAA, as well as the vast majority of fans, supporters, coaches, admins, etc.

Change is neither needed, wanted nor desired.

So Im cashing in all my activist chips at the casino cash station, and trading them out for fan chips, so I can enjoy the game like the rest of you and not concern myself with multipliers, contraction, realignments, reorganization, etc, etc, etc.

This rainbow trout will no longer swim against the current.  Getting too old and too tired for this.  Im going with the flow.

My two favorite schools are my alma mater Highland High School, and my daughters alma mater, Center Grove High School.  

Ill be cheering and pulling for both, and enjoying the pureness and passion of and for the game, along with the rest of you.

DT

DrivenT

Timothy M Phillips

Highland High School - Class of 1979"

Well this didn't age well.

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Guest DT
2 hours ago, Staxawax said:

"Its become abundantly clear to me that maintenance of the status quo is the new mantra of the IHSAA, as well as the vast majority of fans, supporters, coaches, admins, etc.

Change is neither needed, wanted nor desired.

So Im cashing in all my activist chips at the casino cash station, and trading them out for fan chips, so I can enjoy the game like the rest of you and not concern myself with multipliers, contraction, realignments, reorganization, etc, etc, etc.

This rainbow trout will no longer swim against the current.  Getting too old and too tired for this.  Im going with the flow.

My two favorite schools are my alma mater Highland High School, and my daughters alma mater, Center Grove High School.  

Ill be cheering and pulling for both, and enjoying the pureness and passion of and for the game, along with the rest of you.

DT

DrivenT

Timothy M Phillips

Highland High School - Class of 1979"

Well this didn't age well.

Im using my other site for purposes of activism.  This was nothing more than a simple copy and paste for your reading pleasure.  

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Guest DT
On 6/27/2021 at 1:31 PM, DumfriesYMCA said:

What if 5A went to 48 and 1A to 48?

 

Would the numbers work better? 
 

i do like this idea though of refining 6A and expanding 5A 

5A at 48 schools would look like this     2200 high/1350 low

 

24 23 26 26 Southport High School 588 589 559 518 2254 AAAAAA 24 25 22 21 19 Merrillville High Sch 564 527 557 539 2187 AAAAAA 25 26 24 25 25 Warsaw Community HS 548 511 518 526 2103 AAAAAA 26 27 30 33 32 Lafayette Jefferson High School 587 492 546 438 2063 AAAAAA 27 28 31 28 29 Columbus North High School 568 535 470 490 2063 AAAAAA 28 29 28 29 30 Chesterton Senior High School 561 512 509 481 2063 AAAAAA 29 30 36 43 44 Zionsville Community High Sch 553 504 492 506 2055 AAAAAA 30 31 27 27 24 Valparaiso High School 511 477 529 537 2054 AAAAAA 31 62 61 63 68 Columbus East High School 383 373 342 377 1475 AAAAAA 32 CLASS AAAAA 19-20 17-18 15-16 13-14 SCHOOL NAME - by Enrollment 9th G 10th G 11th G 12th G Totals Class 32 29 23 27 Jeffersonville High School 536 506 498 495 2035 AAAAA 1 33 26 22 22 F.W. Northrop High School 500 536 492 504 2032 AAAAA 2 34 37 46 50 Harrison (W.Laf.) High Sch 515 533 472 459 1979 AAAAA 3 35 34 32 35 Castle High School 484 464 469 548 1965 AAAAA 4 36 38 41 42 Goshen High School 479 488 462 494 1923 AAAAA 5 37 41 48 52 Whiteland Community High Sch 506 488 438 484 1916 AAAAA 6 38 43 49 51 S.B. Adams High School 541 505 455 412 1913 AAAAA 7 39 40 42 39 F.W. Snider High School 474 474 452 460 1860 AAAAA 8 40 47 55 34 Decatur Central High School 441 484 492 428 1845 AAAAA 9 41 42 31 31 New Albany Senior High School 468 450 452 463 1833 AAAAA 10 42 32 30 36 LaPorte High School 494 427 462 436 1819 AAAAA 11 43 49 54 55 Floyd Central High School 442 455 458 460 1815 AAAAA 12 Football Enrollments and Classifications for 2019-20 44 35 36 37 Anderson High School 452 435 471 452 1810 AAAAA 13 45 45 50 43 McCutcheon High School 460 438 461 423 1782 AAAAA 14 46 39 40 33 Terre Haute North Vigo High Sch 541 421 406 401 1769 AAAAA 15 47 50 47 41 Bloomington High School South 415 462 449 421 1747 AAAAA 16 48 44 37 45 Terre Haute South Vigo High Sch 484 446 413 390 1733 AAAAA 17 49 52 53 58 Bloomington High School North 441 411 437 420 1709 AAAAA 18 50 56 62 66 Plainfield High School 434 415 433 414 1696 AAAAA 19 51 57 59 57 Evans. North High School 434 420 399 431 1684 AAAAA 20 52 51 57 61 Concord Community High School 420 431 375 431 1657 AAAAA 21 53 46 38 38 Kokomo High School 402 391 398 439 1630 AAAAA 22 54 53 39 49 Elkhart Central High School 436 416 381 385 1618 AAAAA 23 55 48 51 46 Michigan City High Sch 406 390 406 409 1611 AAAAA 24 56 62 58 53 Franklin Community High Sch 405 396 382 407 1590 AAAAA 25 57 55 35 47 Elkhart Memorial High School 444 393 367 363 1567 AAAAA 26 58 54 45 54 F.W. North Side High School 390 380 375 405 1550 AAAAA 27 59 66 77 81 Seymour Senior High School 376 375 388 383 1522 AAAAA 28 60 63 64 59 Munster High School 399 367 383 372 1521 AAAAA 29 61 67 65 63 Mishawaka High School 399 373 351 354 1477 AAAAA 30 63 60 60 56 Bedford-North Lawrence High School 388 368 372 343 1471 AAAAA 31 85 94 100 101 New Palestine High School 288 295 298 294 1175 AAAAA 32 105 99 102 108 F.W. Bishop Dwenger HS 228 266 257 264 1015 AAAAA 33 CLASS AAAA 19-20 17-18 15-16 13-14 SCHOOL NAME - by Enrollment 9th G 10th G 11th G 12th G Totals Class 64 58 56 48 Huntington North High School 379 385 347 348 1459 AAAA 1 65 64 66 69 Greenfield-Central High Sch 363 358 346 386 1453 AAAA 2 66 65 61 60 Martinsville High School 386 341 348 360 1435 AAAA 3 67 71 75 76 Northridge High School 364 353 336 344 1397 AAAA 4 68 68 69 75 Pendleton Heights High School 344 375 319 345 1383 AAAA 5 69 72 70 70 Evans. F. J. Reitz High Sch 359 329 339 351 1378 AAAA 6 70 70 71 74 Mooresville High School 363 331 362 316 1372 AAAA 7 71 74 80 64 F.W. Wayne High School 348 320 345 356 1369 AAAA 8 72 73 73 88 Hammond Morton Senior High School 335 355 329 339 1358 AAAA 9 73 69 72 67 F.W. South Side High School 332 324 374 328 1358 AAAA

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43 minutes ago, DT said:

5A at 48 schools would look like this     2200 high/1350 low

 

24 23 26 26 Southport High School 588 589 559 518 2254 AAAAAA 24 25 22 21 19 Merrillville High Sch 564 527 557 539 2187 AAAAAA 25 26 24 25 25 Warsaw Community HS 548 511 518 526 2103 AAAAAA 26 27 30 33 32 Lafayette Jefferson High School 587 492 546 438 2063 AAAAAA 27 28 31 28 29 Columbus North High School 568 535 470 490 2063 AAAAAA 28 29 28 29 30 Chesterton Senior High School 561 512 509 481 2063 AAAAAA 29 30 36 43 44 Zionsville Community High Sch 553 504 492 506 2055 AAAAAA 30 31 27 27 24 Valparaiso High School 511 477 529 537 2054 AAAAAA 31 62 61 63 68 Columbus East High School 383 373 342 377 1475 AAAAAA 32 CLASS AAAAA 19-20 17-18 15-16 13-14 SCHOOL NAME - by Enrollment 9th G 10th G 11th G 12th G Totals Class 32 29 23 27 Jeffersonville High School 536 506 498 495 2035 AAAAA 1 33 26 22 22 F.W. Northrop High School 500 536 492 504 2032 AAAAA 2 34 37 46 50 Harrison (W.Laf.) High Sch 515 533 472 459 1979 AAAAA 3 35 34 32 35 Castle High School 484 464 469 548 1965 AAAAA 4 36 38 41 42 Goshen High School 479 488 462 494 1923 AAAAA 5 37 41 48 52 Whiteland Community High Sch 506 488 438 484 1916 AAAAA 6 38 43 49 51 S.B. Adams High School 541 505 455 412 1913 AAAAA 7 39 40 42 39 F.W. Snider High School 474 474 452 460 1860 AAAAA 8 40 47 55 34 Decatur Central High School 441 484 492 428 1845 AAAAA 9 41 42 31 31 New Albany Senior High School 468 450 452 463 1833 AAAAA 10 42 32 30 36 LaPorte High School 494 427 462 436 1819 AAAAA 11 43 49 54 55 Floyd Central High School 442 455 458 460 1815 AAAAA 12 Football Enrollments and Classifications for 2019-20 44 35 36 37 Anderson High School 452 435 471 452 1810 AAAAA 13 45 45 50 43 McCutcheon High School 460 438 461 423 1782 AAAAA 14 46 39 40 33 Terre Haute North Vigo High Sch 541 421 406 401 1769 AAAAA 15 47 50 47 41 Bloomington High School South 415 462 449 421 1747 AAAAA 16 48 44 37 45 Terre Haute South Vigo High Sch 484 446 413 390 1733 AAAAA 17 49 52 53 58 Bloomington High School North 441 411 437 420 1709 AAAAA 18 50 56 62 66 Plainfield High School 434 415 433 414 1696 AAAAA 19 51 57 59 57 Evans. North High School 434 420 399 431 1684 AAAAA 20 52 51 57 61 Concord Community High School 420 431 375 431 1657 AAAAA 21 53 46 38 38 Kokomo High School 402 391 398 439 1630 AAAAA 22 54 53 39 49 Elkhart Central High School 436 416 381 385 1618 AAAAA 23 55 48 51 46 Michigan City High Sch 406 390 406 409 1611 AAAAA 24 56 62 58 53 Franklin Community High Sch 405 396 382 407 1590 AAAAA 25 57 55 35 47 Elkhart Memorial High School 444 393 367 363 1567 AAAAA 26 58 54 45 54 F.W. North Side High School 390 380 375 405 1550 AAAAA 27 59 66 77 81 Seymour Senior High School 376 375 388 383 1522 AAAAA 28 60 63 64 59 Munster High School 399 367 383 372 1521 AAAAA 29 61 67 65 63 Mishawaka High School 399 373 351 354 1477 AAAAA 30 63 60 60 56 Bedford-North Lawrence High School 388 368 372 343 1471 AAAAA 31 85 94 100 101 New Palestine High School 288 295 298 294 1175 AAAAA 32 105 99 102 108 F.W. Bishop Dwenger HS 228 266 257 264 1015 AAAAA 33 CLASS AAAA 19-20 17-18 15-16 13-14 SCHOOL NAME - by Enrollment 9th G 10th G 11th G 12th G Totals Class 64 58 56 48 Huntington North High School 379 385 347 348 1459 AAAA 1 65 64 66 69 Greenfield-Central High Sch 363 358 346 386 1453 AAAA 2 66 65 61 60 Martinsville High School 386 341 348 360 1435 AAAA 3 67 71 75 76 Northridge High School 364 353 336 344 1397 AAAA 4 68 68 69 75 Pendleton Heights High School 344 375 319 345 1383 AAAA 5 69 72 70 70 Evans. F. J. Reitz High Sch 359 329 339 351 1378 AAAA 6 70 70 71 74 Mooresville High School 363 331 362 316 1372 AAAA 7 71 74 80 64 F.W. Wayne High School 348 320 345 356 1369 AAAA 8 72 73 73 88 Hammond Morton Senior High School 335 355 329 339 1358 AAAA 9 73 69 72 67 F.W. South Side High School 332 324 374 328 1358 AAAA

Are you sure these aren't the codes Biden isn't allowed to access?

To quote my man @Donnie Baker, I gotta go! 😁

Edited by DE
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On 7/1/2021 at 3:07 PM, Staxawax said:

LOL! Muda gives me a thumbs down for simply pointing out another 2-faced post by the great DT.

Yep. What is pitiful is you saving previous posts for the express purpose of performing a "gotcha" against an individual who has provided much more content for the GID than you ever have.

It's just a game, played by children.

 

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4 hours ago, Muda69 said:

Yep. What is pitiful is you saving previous posts for the express purpose of performing a "gotcha" against an individual who has provided much more content for the GID than you ever have.

It's just a game, played by children.

 

Oh wow, you outed me.  Yes, I downloaded that post, saved it to a safe, off-site location, and waited for the moment.

Of course, anyone could have copy and pasted any one of hundreds of DT posts that he declares some kind of epiphany moment, then does an about face.

But you keep doing what you do. TGD needs you and DT a lot more than they need me.

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  • 2 weeks later...
On 7/3/2021 at 1:33 PM, Staxawax said:

Oh wow, you outed me.  Yes, I downloaded that post, saved it to a safe, off-site location, and waited for the moment.

Thank you for the admission.

 

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