Muda69 Posted June 8, 2020 Share Posted June 8, 2020 27 minutes ago, Irishman said: Memorial to those who died at Camp Douglas.....placed where those soldiers were buried. And from Andersonville, GA, a National Historic Site; now part of the memorial dedicated to all American prisoners of war. https://www.nps.gov/ande/learn/index.htm The key is that both these monuments are in the place where they should be; not just some random place, especially a place chosen by the KKK. These are appropriate ways to remember what had happened. As stated, there is a marker to identify where the soldiers from Camp Morton are buried. Again your leftist hangup of 'some random place' chosen by long dead racists is duly noted. Shouldn't the content of what is on the monument be the overarching important factor here? The location argument is just a smoke screen used by Mr. Hogsett to show that he is 'being tough' against monuments celebrating the confederacy even when this monument does nothing of the sort. Riddle me this, Irishman. What if these long dead KKK members had also had a monument moved to 'some random place' that noted the sacrifice of Union solders during the Civil War? Should that monument be torn down because of it's now 'random placement' by long dead racists? Also I didn't know Garfield Park, the oldest park in the city of Indianapolis, is some 'random place'. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Irishman Posted June 8, 2020 Share Posted June 8, 2020 1 minute ago, Muda69 said: Again your leftist hangup of 'some random place' chosen by long dead racists is duly noted. Shouldn't the content of what is on the monument be the overarching important factor here? The location argument is just a smoke screen used by Mr. Hogsett to show that he is 'being tough' against monuments celebrating the confederacy even when this monument does nothing of the sort. Riddle me this, Irishman. What if these long dead KKK members had also had a monument moved to 'some random place' that noted the sacrifice of Union solders during the Civil War? Should that monument be torn down because of it's now 'random placement' by long dead racists? Also I didn't know Garfield Park, the oldest park in the city of Indianapolis, is some 'random place'. If the content is the overreaching factor, then you are saying there is no need for the monument itself? You mean content like what can be found in a museum or in books??? As far as the riddle, why would it make a difference if it were union soldiers???? As far as Garfield Park, you are right, and I correct myself; it is not some random place. It was chosen by them because it was a highly visible place. That said, this spot is not related in any way to the monument placed there. If the monument were in the spot where Camp Morton was, fine; no issue with it being there. I do think there is significance to standing in the place where such events actually occurred. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Muda69 Posted June 8, 2020 Share Posted June 8, 2020 4 minutes ago, Irishman said: If the content is the overreaching factor, then you are saying there is no need for the monument itself? You mean content like what can be found in a museum or in books??? No, I'm saying the location should not be as big a factor as you make it out to be. Should the soldiers and sailor monument in downtown Indianapolis be removed because it's content can be found in a museum or books? 6 minutes ago, Irishman said: As far as the riddle, why would it make a difference if it were union soldiers???? I'm asking your the question. Please answer it. 6 minutes ago, Irishman said: As far as Garfield Park, you are right, and I correct myself; it is not some random place. It was chosen by them because it was a highly visible place. That said, this spot is not related in any way to the monument placed there. If the monument were in the spot where Camp Morton was, fine; no issue with it being there. I do think there is significance to standing in the place where such events actually occurred. I don't believe monuments needs to be placed in the exact spot where the events actually occurred. How many non-confederacy advocating monuments are you willing to have moved or removed to satisfy your "significance standard"? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Irishman Posted June 8, 2020 Share Posted June 8, 2020 Just now, Muda69 said: No, I'm saying the location should not be as big a factor as you make it out to be. Should the soldiers and sailor monument in downtown Indianapolis be removed because it's content can be found in a museum or books? I'm asking your the question. Please answer it. I don't believe monuments needs to be placed in the exact spot where the events actually occurred. How many non-confederacy advocating monuments are you willing to have moved or removed to satisfy your "significance standard"? As far as non confederacy monuments; it's a different discussion. They are not dedicated to those who committed treason. As with SOOOOO many discussions people have, or try to have with you on here; you just go round and round and round and round and round.....so boring. I have stated my points....don't like them? I don't care. Don't agree with them, fine. Move along. 1 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Muda69 Posted June 8, 2020 Share Posted June 8, 2020 1 minute ago, Irishman said: As far as non confederacy monuments; it's a different discussion. They are not dedicated to those who committed treason. As with SOOOOO many discussions people have, or try to have with you on here; you just go round and round and round and round and round.....so boring. I have stated my points....don't like them? I don't care. Don't agree with them, fine. Move along. This is a not a monument celebrating the confederacy, not matter how hard you want to make it one. It memorializes the confederate prisoners of war, "traitors" as you paint them, who died due to Union neglect and malfeasance. So one has assume by your indifference to this fact that you tacitly support such treatment of prisoners of war. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Irishman Posted June 8, 2020 Share Posted June 8, 2020 Just now, Muda69 said: This is a not a monument celebrating the confederacy, not matter how hard you want to make it one. It memorializes the confederate prisoners of war, "traitors" as you paint them, who died due to Union neglect and malfeasance. So one has assume by your indifference to this fact that you tacitly support such treatment of prisoners of war. Get over yourself; you are such a drama queen...lol I never used the word celebrated. And, it's "no matter" lol Yes, by all means you can assume I tacitly support such treatment of POW's.....Geeeeeezuz; so dramatic. Unbelievable. 1 minute ago, TrojanDad said: Yet I haven't read anything about Hogsett having the memorial monument to 1600+ dead Confederate soldiers while held in captivity returned to its original place when erected in 1912 or anywhere else. All I have seen is that he is having it removed. But I could have missed the plans for relocation. Can you share that with me? He has not, but I would be fine with that. There is however a marker in Crown Hill Cemetery where the remains are buried; which is also fine, and in my mind appropriate. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Irishman Posted June 8, 2020 Share Posted June 8, 2020 Just now, TrojanDad said: I guess we agree to disagree. We shouldn't forget what the US and Confederate governments did to prisoners in the War Between the States. I am much more aligned with what was done at Camp Douglas in Chicago that tributes the Confederate dead, as seen below: I agree we should not forget either. I also stated that I am fine with the memorial at Camp Douglas. I even added, there is significance to standing on the spot where those atrocities took place. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Muda69 Posted June 8, 2020 Share Posted June 8, 2020 12 minutes ago, Irishman said: Get over yourself; you are such a drama queen...lol I never used the word celebrated. And, it's "no matter" lol No Irishman, you are the drama queen. Not I. You just can't stand it when individuals have different opinions on matters that you do, and refuse to be brow beaten into shutting up about it. Like I've said before it is rather obvious this comes from a profession when you can lord over younger individuals with virtual impunity. We get it. 1 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Irishman Posted June 8, 2020 Share Posted June 8, 2020 I will add this too....it is unfortunate that Camp Morton could not be preserved in some way for the remains of those soldiers. It is also sad that the soldiers' remains were removed from Greenlawn Cemetery. If that marker stood in either of those spots; I am fine with that. There is but one connection to the marker and Garfield Park where is currently sets. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Irishman Posted June 8, 2020 Share Posted June 8, 2020 1 minute ago, Muda69 said: No Irishman, you are the drama queen. Not I. You just can't stand it when individuals have different opinions on matters that you do, and refuse to be brow beaten into shutting up about it. Like I've said before it is rather obvious this comes from a profession when you can lord over younger individuals with virtual impunity. We get it. Yeah, I am the drama queen...I never use idiotic terms like "tacitly support such treatment of prisoners", "lord it over younger individuals..." , "with virtual impunity". Comical at best....but hey, if it makes you feel better to keep taking the personal jabs; you go right ahead there scooter. Brow beaten....that is funny....did you get dictionary toilet paper for a present recently??? lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Muda69 Posted June 8, 2020 Share Posted June 8, 2020 Just now, Irishman said: Yeah, I am the drama queen...I never use idiotic terms like "tacitly support such treatment of prisoners", "lord it over younger individuals..." , "with virtual impunity". Comical at best....but hey, if it makes you feel better to keep taking the personal jabs; you go right ahead there scooter. Brow beaten....that is funny....did you get dictionary toilet paper for a present recently??? lol Hey Chief it was you who started with the personal jabs like 'drama queen'. And sorry that basic use of the English language in words and phrases is so comical to you. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Irishman Posted June 8, 2020 Share Posted June 8, 2020 55 minutes ago, TrojanDad said: What a super soft society we are becoming..... I missed this with so many other posts on this thread....I watched this on WTHR's website....sure use a lot of dynamite; but no, we cannot use guns. I just hate that WB is actually trying to bring back Looney Tunes. What they did with Animaniacs and Looney Tunes kids was ok......A lot of Animaniacs stuff was hilarious; but leave the originals alone. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Muda69 Posted June 8, 2020 Share Posted June 8, 2020 11 minutes ago, Irishman said: I will add this too....it is unfortunate that Camp Morton could not be preserved in some way for the remains of those soldiers. It is also sad that the soldiers' remains were removed from Greenlawn Cemetery. If that marker stood in either of those spots; I am fine with that. There is but one connection to the marker and Garfield Park where is currently sets. And it is where it should stay since a spot at the former location of Camp Morton is probably no longer financially or geographically feasible. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Irishman Posted June 8, 2020 Share Posted June 8, 2020 Just now, Muda69 said: Hey Chief it was you who started with the personal jabs like 'drama queen'. And sorry that basic use of the English language in words and phrases is so comical to you. Well scooter; I started the drama queen claim when you were making the claim I talked about monuments "celebrating" something, then after the tacitly support comment for starters.......Yeah basic grasp....lol 3 minutes ago, Muda69 said: And it is where it should stay since a spot at the former location of Camp Morton is probably no longer financially or geographically feasible. So an addition to a marker like this: It was either financially or geographically feasible to put this on that spot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Muda69 Posted June 8, 2020 Share Posted June 8, 2020 9 minutes ago, Irishman said: Well scooter; I started the drama queen claim when you were making the claim I talked about monuments "celebrating" something, then after the tacitly support comment for starters.......Yeah basic grasp....lol So now you are saying monuments are never constructed to celebrate certain moments, individuals, or periods in history? 10 minutes ago, Irishman said: So an addition to a marker like this: It was either financially or geographically feasible to put this on that spot. Does this simple marker also mention or list the 1600+ men (or in your words "traitors") who died due to Union neglect and malfeasance? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Irishman Posted June 8, 2020 Share Posted June 8, 2020 Just now, Muda69 said: So now you are saying monuments are never constructed to celebrate certain moments, individuals, or periods in history? Does this simple marker also mention or list the 1600+ men (or in your words "traitors") who died due to Union neglect and malfeasance? Nope; never said that either. lol you are funny No that marker does not state that; but it would be appropriate to put a new marker or an additional one in that does make mention of that, in my opinion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Muda69 Posted June 8, 2020 Share Posted June 8, 2020 6 minutes ago, Irishman said: Nope; never said that either. lol you are funny No that marker does not state that; but it would be appropriate to put a new marker or an additional one in that does make mention of that, in my opinion. Or use the cheapest and most logical option: Leave the currently built monument in Garfield Park alone. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DanteEstonia Posted June 8, 2020 Share Posted June 8, 2020 51 minutes ago, Muda69 said: Does this simple marker also mention or list the 1600+ men (or in your words "traitors") who died due to Union neglect and malfeasance? Should it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Muda69 Posted June 8, 2020 Share Posted June 8, 2020 1 hour ago, DanteEstonia said: Should it? Yes, IMHO it should. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Muda69 Posted June 8, 2020 Share Posted June 8, 2020 https://www.indystar.com/story/news/local/2020/06/08/indianapolis-protests-confederate-monument-dismantled-garfield-park-indiana/5317785002/ Quote .... Joe Kriese, 68, has lived across the street from Garfield Park since 1966. In the winter when the trees are bare, he can see the monument from his front porch. Kriese was angry that Mayor Hogsett removed the statue without first talking to the neighborhood. "I thought it was very underhanded and gutless the way they handled this," Kriese said. "I think he (Hogsett) caved in to some activists that didn't like this, and they don't even live around here." Bingo. Underhanded and gutless. But hey, I guess it will garner him a few votes, so mission accomplished. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gonzoron Posted June 8, 2020 Share Posted June 8, 2020 3 hours ago, Muda69 said: Or use the cheapest and most logical option: Leave the currently built monument in Garfield Park alone. Too late. It's gone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Muda69 Posted June 8, 2020 Share Posted June 8, 2020 23 minutes ago, gonzoron said: Too late. It's gone. As was linked to approx 40 minutes ago: Taxpayer money wasted, and history forgotten. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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