New MIC 10 on the Horizon

[foxbat]

35 minutes ago, HoopsCoach said:

Harrison and McCutcheon are a package deal, and Jeff likely stays with them in any conference moves.  I don’t think the size of schools they play in football matters as much as the quality of the competition.  The bigger concern for the 3 Tippecanoe County schools is the lack of competition in sports other than boys basketball.  Their best fit in terms of competitive balance and similar enrollments would be the Duneland Conference.  The Lafayette area schools have played Duneland schools in many sports, and the drive times wouldn’t be that different from their current trips in the NCC.  The Duneland schools would be reluctant to expand south when their conference currently has 8 members that are all relatively close together.  The time zone change would be a problem also.  I would not be surprised if Harrison and Jeff end up in a 6A sectional with 2 Duneland Conference schools.

The regular season series between Harrison and Westfield is ending.  Harrison will play West Lafayette and Plainfield as non-conference opponents.  Lafayette Jeff has switched from West Lafayette and Lawrence Central to Cathedral and Michigan City for their 2 non-conference games.  McCutcheon plays Guerin Catholic and West Lafayette.

This is a shame as I think that Harrison has been closing that gap ... especially when you look at the under cards.

The past 4 years, Harrison's varsity has seen the following in Westfield matchups:

• 2022 ??
• 2021 L 11-33
• 2020 L 10-34
• 2019 L 28-55
• 2018 L 16-28

The JV matchups have been:

• 2021 L 22-23
• 2020 L 26-34

Freshman matchup

• 2020 21-28

Those teams in green are the cohort that's up and coming.  This year's JV game came down to a 47-/48-yard field goal at the end for the winner.  BTW, you've got to keep an eye on Westfield's JV kicker, Boehm, as he moves up ... he'll be a junior next year.  I had an opportunity to coach him when he was younger.  He was winning the PK part of PPK competitions back when he was a kid and has just gotten better over time.  He was a good tailback/slot back, but I think he's focusing solely on his kicking game now.  I was really hoping to see this play out in 2022 or 2023.  Guess we'll now have to wait until post season stuff for that potential matchup.

West Lafayette should be a good move for Harrison to add.  McCutcheon has done a good job in picking up Guerin and West Lafayette as its too non-cons a few years back.  Guerin has some growing pains to work through, but I think they'll provide a a good sharpening stone for McCutcheon and West Lafayette, well they're West Lafayette.  Plainfield should be a move-up in competition from THS, but not sure if it provides the kind of shift in competition they need.  My favorite scenario given these teams would have been keeping Westfield and trading out THS for West Lafayette, but I guess you take what you can get at this point until things shift again.

[Guest]

3 minutes ago, Footballking16 said:

Commitment from Frankfort? Muda preaches every week how Frankfort would be better off playing co-op flag football. 

Too bad they are so weak athletically.  It would be a perfect fit from a geographic standpoint.

How would they fare in the other sports in this proposed new conference?

 

[Footballking16]

20 minutes ago, HHF said:

Too bad they are so weak athletically.  It would be a perfect fit from a geographic standpoint.

How would they fare in the other sports in this proposed new conference?

 

Don't know anything about Frankfort other than they're a "4A school by enrollment only" per Muda. 

From a football perspective only, WeBo is a better fit in your proposed Lafayette conference.

Edited December 17, 2021 by Footballking16

[temptation]

Just now, Footballking16 said:

Don't know anything about Frankfort other than they're a "4A school by enrollment only" per Muda. 

Only roughly 150 kids fewer than Cathedral.  Bet if they had a better coaching staff that worked harder they could compete with the Irish...

[Footballking16]

19 minutes ago, temptation said:

Only roughly 150 kids fewer than Cathedral.  Bet if they had a better coaching staff that worked harder they could compete with the Irish...

I wouldn't go that far, but no reason to think that with a solid support staff, good feeder program, etc Frankfort shouldn't fare much better than they currently do in a conference comprised of mostly 2A and 3A schools. I'd start there first. 

[BDGiant93]

14 hours ago, temptation said:

The most important box = don’t bully us and win conference titles in nearly every sport 

The most important box...be honest about your intentions.

[Guest]

6 minutes ago, Footballking16 said:

Don't know anything about Frankfort other than they're a "4A school by enrollment only" per Muda. 

From a football perspective only, WeBo is a better fit in your proposed Lafayette conference.

Dont see Webo leaving the Sagamore.  Frankfort and Lebanon are bigger schools and should benefit over the long run by playing stronger competition

[Guest]

4 minutes ago, Footballking16 said:

I wouldn't go that far, but no reason to think that with a solid support staff, good feeder program, etc Frankfort shouldn't fare much better than they currently do in a conference comprised of mostly 2A and 3A schools. I'd start there first. 

Mt Vernon is a better comparison.  Solid public 4A school with similar enrollment.  

[Footballking16]

18 minutes ago, HHF said:

Mt Vernon is a better comparison.  Solid public 4A school with similar enrollment.  

Better comparison to what? 

[Guest]

temptation is using Cathedral as an athletic role model for Frankfort.  

[southend]

1 minute ago, HHF said:

temptation is using Cathedral as an athletic role model for Frankfort.  

Quite the comedian !

[Footballking16]

18 minutes ago, HHF said:

temptation is using Cathedral as an athletic role model for Frankfort.  

Right, which is extremely silly and serves no purpose to the discussion. 

I don't know the first thing about Frankfort but guessing there isn't a huge disparity in SES factors between them and conference foes. No reason for them to be as bad as they are unless there isn't even attempt by the local community and administration to improve their football program which honestly may be the case. 

[foxbat]

56 minutes ago, HHF said:

And then WL falls asleep for 7 weeks in the HC and gets bumped in the first round of the tournament.  

I dont see the Duneland reaching out and saving the 3 Lafayette nomads.  A better option is for Lafayette to create its own city based conference with its core 5 schools and invite 3 more to join.  Those 3 would be Kokomo, Logansport and Lebanon.

Harrison

Jeff

McCutcheon

LCC

WL

Kokomo

Lebanon

Logansport

This is a huge jump in overall football competition for all schools and a massive reduction in travel.  

 

For those who might feel that this is too much for LCC, 2A Luers competes in The SAC with 6A schools.  2A Mater Dei competes in the SIAC with 5A schools, and 3A Marian and St Joe compete in the NIC with mega 3000 plus enrollment 6A schools.  

 

Lebanon, LCC, and West Lafayette would be the only real differences in that idea and Harrison and McCutcheon will already likely have WL on their schedules.  Jeff picked up Cathedral, so that works out better for them than last season's non-con of West Lafayette.  While LCC brings discipline and speed as well as a passing offense into the mix, the size doesn't help Jeff and Harrison in getting ready for the post-season.  I don't think LCC would have an issue playing in that size conference assuming they would leave the Hoosier, but Harrison/Jeff would need more power punchers at the top of the league as opposed to bringing in someone else who can beat Tech, Muncie Central, Richmond, and Anderson.

The teams that would benefit the most from such a situation would likely be LCC, provided the size doesn't dent them up to much for post season and West Lafayette.  Possibly Lebanon as well.  For Jeff/Harrison and probably McCutcheon, forming a league that looks like the above, probably gives them less options to move to other conferences where there could be more competition and, at best the above configuration provides a wash for at least Harrison and Jeff.  Frankfort instead of LCC makes the proposition less.  Travel is a consideration, but think Harrison at least would rather play in the HCC and do the travel as opposed to creating a league as presented above.  Now that option changes a bit if you could grab a couple of higher-level 5As or mid-6As to join such a league. 

[PDB26]

1 hour ago, HHF said:

St Joe compete in the NIC with mega 3000 plus enrollment 6A schools.  

Dude.

[Guest]

37 minutes ago, Footballking16 said:

Right, which is extremely silly and serves no purpose to the discussion. 

I don't know the first thing about Frankfort but guessing there isn't a huge disparity in SES factors between them and conference foes. No reason for them to be as bad as they are unless there isn't even attempt by the local community and administration to improve their football program which honestly may be the case. 

Frankfort is similar to East Chicago in that the population has turned heavily hispanic and away from traditional american sports like football and baseball.  (51% hispanic)

[Guest]

38 minutes ago, foxbat said:

Lebanon, LCC, and West Lafayette would be the only real differences in that idea and Harrison and McCutcheon will already likely have WL on their schedules.  Jeff picked up Cathedral, so that works out better for them than last season's non-con of West Lafayette.  While LCC brings discipline and speed as well as a passing offense into the mix, the size doesn't help Jeff and Harrison in getting ready for the post-season.  I don't think LCC would have an issue playing in that size conference assuming they would leave the Hoosier, but Harrison/Jeff would need more power punchers at the top of the league as opposed to bringing in someone else who can beat Tech, Muncie Central, Richmond, and Anderson.

The teams that would benefit the most from such a situation would likely be LCC, provided the size doesn't dent them up to much for post season and West Lafayette.  Possibly Lebanon as well.  For Jeff/Harrison and probably McCutcheon, forming a league that looks like the above, probably gives them less options to move to other conferences where there could be more competition and, at best the above configuration provides a wash for at least Harrison and Jeff.  Frankfort instead of LCC makes the proposition less.  Travel is a consideration, but think Harrison at least would rather play in the HCC and do the travel as opposed to creating a league as presented above.  Now that option changes a bit if you could grab a couple of higher-level 5As or mid-6As to join such a league. 

I am going on the premise that Jeff - Harrison have 3 options 

1. Stay put in the NCC

2. Create their own conference (my model)

3. Go independent

I making the following assumptions :

1. DAC not interested

2. MIC not interested

3. HCC not interested

4. Conference Indiana - too much travel

Another option could be to hold at 7 schools (drop LCC( and have 3 open dates.  This would give the big 6A schools the opportunity to step up their scheduling, assuming they are willing to travel.

[foxbat]

7 minutes ago, HHF said:

I am going on the premise that Jeff - Harrison have 3 options 

1. Stay put in the NCC

2. Create their own conference (my model)

3. Go independent

I making the following assumptions :

1. DAC not interested

2. MIC not interested

3. HCC not interested

4. Conference Indiana - too much travel

Another option could be to hold at 7 schools (drop LCC( and have 3 open dates.  This would give the big 6A schools the opportunity to step up their scheduling, assuming they are willing to travel.

Then the best option, given those three, is to stay in the NCC as going independent produces far to many headaches and uncertainties and the return on investment for forming their own league is, at best, picking one additional game that they could schedule as they already get two to schedule in the NCC.  Too many headaches and uncertainty in starting your own league just for one game.

Better off just staying in the NCC given those options.  The effort spent on forming a new conference would be better spent on 1) seeing if a school such as Muncie Central, Tech, Anderson, Richmond, or Marion try to do something closer to home, leave the conference, then look to add someone to the mix that plays at a level higher than the team that leaves, 2) lobby for a two division conference with five in a division and play the four in your division plus two crossover ... no championship and that leaves three dates open, or 3) just flat out lobby for a 6-game conference schedule.

[gaby]

1 hour ago, Footballking16 said:

Right, which is extremely silly and serves no purpose to the discussion. 

I don't know the first thing about Frankfort but guessing there isn't a huge disparity in SES factors between them and conference foes. No reason for them to be as bad as they are unless there isn't even attempt by the local community and administration to improve their football program which honestly may be the case. 

My guess is the reason Muda says they are 4A in enrollment only is that the community and student body is around 30% Hispanic, and that demographic isn’t traditionally a fertile recruiting ground for them.  So even in a Sagamore Conference with schools ranging from 2A-4A, they have been dismal for some time.  I believe their soccer and baseball teams have been pretty competitive recently.

[Guest]

6 minutes ago, gaby said:

My guess is the reason Muda says they are 4A in enrollment only is that the community and student body is around 30% Hispanic, and that demographic isn’t traditionally a fertile recruiting ground for them.  So even in a Sagamore Conference with schools ranging from 2A-4A, they have been dismal for some time.  I believe their soccer and baseball teams have been pretty competitive recently.

The school is 50% hispanic

[Muda69]

3 hours ago, HHF said:

If tghis is too much for LCC, Frankfort would be an option, with the committment from the Frankfort administration that they will invest resources in better facilities, staff and equipment in an effort to upgrade thier program

Case Arena is one of Indiana's High School Basketball Palaces, and was recently part of a $30 million renovation of the High School building.  And the football field is serviceable, just got a fancy new scoreboard a few years ago.

 

2 hours ago, Footballking16 said:

Commitment from Frankfort? Muda preaches every week how Frankfort would be better off playing co-op flag football. 

Please provide a link where I am quoted saying exactly that, or STFU.

 

2 hours ago, HHF said:

Too bad they are so weak athletically.  It would be a perfect fit from a geographic standpoint.

How would they fare in the other sports in this proposed new conference?

 

Frankfort was a charter member of the NCC, but after it's enrollment lagged behind the other NCC school it  dropped out.

 

[Muda69]

2 hours ago, Footballking16 said:

Right, which is extremely silly and serves no purpose to the discussion. 

I don't know the first thing about Frankfort but guessing there isn't a huge disparity in SES factors between them and conference foes. 

There is.

 

[Muda69]

1 hour ago, HHF said:

Frankfort is similar to East Chicago in that the population has turned heavily hispanic and away from traditional american sports like football and baseball.  (51% hispanic)

Actually in baseball, a sport many in the hispanic community have gravitated toward,  Frankfort has fielded a pretty competitive squad over the last several seasons, even winning a sectional or two.

In football it's a different story, a  too big a portion of the OMG! Athletes are playing soccer, not tackle football.

 

[gaby]

39 minutes ago, HHF said:

The school is 50% hispanic

Couldn’t find the stats, but that doesn’t surprise me.  Just not a great cultural fit for football.

[Guest]

1 minute ago, gaby said:

Couldn’t find the stats, but that doesn’t surprise me.  Just not a great cultural fit for football.

Same thing is happening in Griffith, which has killed the Panther football program

[gaby]

4 minutes ago, Muda69 said:

Actually in baseball, a sport many in the hispanic community have gravitated toward,  Frankfort has fielded a pretty competitive squad over the last several seasons, even winning a sectional or two.

In football it's a different story, a  too big a portion of the OMG! Athletes are playing soccer, not tackle football.

 

They should have a very good baseball team this spring.