HCC/MIC Week #14

[temptation]

2-1 last week…17-2 in the postseason, 94-18 on the year.

Center Grove at Ben Davis:  Let’s see here, am I going to pick against the team that has won 12 straight games against in-state competition or the one whose only loss is to the #2 team in America?

I have learned not to pick against Eric Moore, especially in November, and learned my lesson last week in picking Cathedral to upset Ben Davis.  I don’t usually get into a position by position comparison here, but don’t believe it’s controversial to believe BD has more talent across the board.

Both teams have extremely talented quarterbacks, but the Giants have more talent in the backfield, at the skill positions and along the defensive line.

But they don’t have Eric Moore.  Russ Mann is a bright mind and has done one hell of a job in year 1.  If he traverses the path of beating Hart, Peebles AND Moore in his first year, I’ll tip my cap.

If wake up Saturday morning, having picked against CG and am wrong, I’d never forgive myself.  If I wake up having picked CG and BD wins, I’d feel less bad, lol.  I’ve waffled on this one since 10pm Friday night and I’ll duck on the way out.  Picked CG when the tournament started, so I’m going all in.

CG wins 27-24.

Westfield @ Crown Point:  Both teams coming off thrilling victories last weekend sets up the showdown in the region.  Crown Point breaking through is good for the sport similar to how Carroll did last year.  Westfield has played 90 minutes of bad football all season and I believe that any talk of travel causing difficulty is grossly overstated as the Shamrocks have been here before.  Not to use an idiom but Westfield is much more battle tested and it will show here.

Westfield wins 31-17.

What say you?

Edited November 13, 2023 by temptation

[LC_Bears_04]

Westfield 35, Crown Point 21

Ben Davis 31, Center Grove 28

[BDGiant93]

On 11/13/2023 at 12:50 PM, temptation said:

2-1 last week…17-2 in the postseason, 94-18 on the year.

Center Grove at Ben Davis:  Let’s see here, am I going to pick against the team that has won 12 straight games against in-state competition or the one whose only loss is to the #2 team in America?

I have learned not to pick against Eric Moore, especially in November, and learned my lesson last week in picking Cathedral to upset Ben Davis.  I don’t usually get into a position by position comparison here, but don’t believe it’s controversial to believe BD has more talent across the board.

Both teams have extremely talented quarterbacks, but the Giants have more talent in the backfield, at the skill positions and along the defensive line.

But they don’t have Eric Moore.  Russ Mann is a bright mind and has done one hell of a job in year 1.  If he traverses the path of beating Hart, Peebles AND Moore in his first year, I’ll tip my cap.

If wake up Saturday morning, having picked against CG and am wrong, I’d never forgive myself.  If I wake up having picked CG and BD wins, I’d feel less bad, lol.  I’ve waffled on this one since 10pm Friday night and I’ll duck on the way out.  Picked CG when the tournament started, so I’m going all in.

CG wins 27-24.

Westfield @ Crown Point:  Both teams coming off thrilling victories last weekend sets up the showdown in the region.  Crown Point breaking through is good for the sport similar to how Carroll did last year.  Westfield has played 90 minutes of bad football all season and I believe that any talk of travel causing difficulty is grossly overstated as the Shamrocks have been here before.  Not to use an idiom but Westfield is much more battle tested and it will show here.

Westfield wins 31-17.

What say you?

Solid picks and rationale. I flip Ben Davis and Center Grove...you know...the huge homer thing (BD 31, CG 28).

As long as one doesn't get completely doors blown off by the other, there's no shame in losing to the other team. If Center Grove beats the Giants, I will tip my cap. BD and CG (and Brownsburg) are some of the best teams we've seen around in a while. It just happens they all have/had the unfortunate luck to play in the same year/same class/same geographic area with each other.

[temptation]

1 hour ago, BDGiant93 said:

Solid picks and rationale. I flip Ben Davis and Center Grove...you know...the huge homer thing (BD 31, CG 28).

As long as one doesn't get completely doors blown off by the other, there's no shame in losing to the other team. If Center Grove beats the Giants, I will tip my cap. BD and CG (and Brownsburg) are some of the best teams we've seen around in a while. It just happens they all have/had the unfortunate luck to play in the same year/same class/same geographic area with each other.

What's your rationale?

[BDGiant93]

23 hours ago, temptation said:

What's your rationale?

I think Ben Davis is the better team. No disrespect to Center Grove, and it may not end up that way on the scoreboard, but I think BD, on paper, has more in the three phases. Now, Center Grove has plenty of state level experience to make up for all that. You can't beat the run they've been on. They expect to win. I just think that the Giants defense has been playing very good football. They have given up some plays, but they've been solid in the clutch. They've been turning turnovers into points. I also think this is a rare occasion when BD might have the advantage over CG in the kicking game. That's definitely played into things. 

I have nothing but respect for Center Grove's program and its fans. Our teams have had a lot of battles over the years, and I think this will be another one on Friday night. If the Trojans win, like I said, hat's off to them. They will have beaten one of the best Ben Davis teams in the last 30 years.

[BDGiant93]

I should also add that Coy and Cherry are truly special players. Center Grove also is extremely versatile on offense. You have to be ready for all they can throw at you.

[temptation]

0-2 last night, 17-4 on the postseason, 94-20 on the season.

The four losses:

Had Avon over Pike (lost 42-41 in OT).

Had Cathedral over BD (lost 27-24).

Had CG over BD (lost 37-34 in OT).

Had Westfield over CP (lost 38-31 in double OT).

14 points, lol.  Gotta do better.

[BTF]

2 hours ago, temptation said:

0-2 last night, 17-4 on the postseason, 94-20 on the season.

The four losses:

Had Avon over Pike (lost 42-41 in OT).

Had Cathedral over BD (lost 27-24).

Had CG over BD (lost 37-34 in OT).

Had Westfield over CP (lost 38-31 in double OT).

14 points, lol.  Gotta do better.

Yes, pitiful. 

[Indiana Fan]

CG has been in the semi state in the largest class 14 of the last 16 years!! That’s incredible! To me, that’s even more impressive than a 4 peat state champions. Hard to really fathom that stat.

[temptation]

3 hours ago, Indiana Fan said:

CG has been in the semi state in the largest class 14 of the last 16 years!! That’s incredible! To me, that’s even more impressive than a 4 peat state champions. Hard to really fathom that stat.

Eh, not as much when you look at their path…two gimmes to start the tournament annually.

[Bash Riprock]

2 hours ago, temptation said:

Eh, not as much when you look at their path…two gimmes to start the tournament annually.

Sigh…not only does that comment slap schools like Columbus North and Franklin Central in the face, but over that span, pulls in schools to include both Bloomington South and North, Columbus East, Martinsville, etc.  Not to mention some real tough regional battles.  
 

Eric Moore built a dynasty from a school that prior to him had won one sectional championship. You don’t get to trash that level of accomplishment with an ounce of credibility. 
 

Think a little before you spew. 

[temptation]

1 hour ago, Bash Riprock said:

Sigh…not only does that comment slap schools like Columbus North and Franklin Central in the face, but over that span, pulls in schools to include both Bloomington South and North, Columbus East, Martinsville, etc.  Not to mention some real tough regional battles.  
 

Eric Moore built a dynasty from a school that prior to him had won one sectional championship. You don’t get to trash that level of accomplishment with an ounce of credibility. 
 

Think a little before you spew. 

Don’t forget powerhouses TH South, Jeffersonville, and New Albany.

Too lazy to do the research but I’m betting in the 16 years mentioned, they’ve won sectional contests by a 4+ TD margin per contest.

Stop looking for reasons to get offended.  I’m more complimentary of Eric Moore than anyone on this forum.

[Bash Riprock]

1 hour ago, temptation said:

Don’t forget powerhouses TH South, Jeffersonville, and New Albany.

Too lazy to do the research but I’m betting in the 16 years mentioned, they’ve won sectional contests by a 4+ TD margin per contest.

Stop looking for reasons to get offended.  I’m more complimentary of Eric Moore than anyone on this forum.

Not offended. Just dislike your poor takes. No need to discredit any high school or the kids on it. You play the teams your scheduled to play.  

Edited November 19, 2023 by Bash Riprock

[temptation]

12 minutes ago, Bash Riprock said:

Not offended. Just dislike your poor takes. No need to discredit any high school or the kids on it. You play the teams you’re scheduled to play.  n

This is like folks giving Penn credit for winning XX number of consecutive conference titles in a row…they are beating the teams that they should and it’s not their fault the teams in their conference suck annually.

See what I did there @GOLDRUSH1985?

Triggering my two biggest fans in the same post….

Edited November 19, 2023 by temptation

[Bash Riprock]

10 hours ago, temptation said:

This is like folks giving Penn credit for winning XX number of consecutive conference titles in a row…they are beating the teams that they should and it’s not their fault the teams in their conference suck annually.

See what I did there @GOLDRUSH1985?

Triggering my two biggest fans in the same post….

You simply can’t help yourself, can you?
 

You recently posted correctly on another thread CG’s difficulty last year getting past FC in the sectional on the way to their third straight 6A title. Some of us actually were in the stands watching our kids play during this 18 year window and we know CG wasn’t lighting every team up by 4 TD’s during those sectionals, especially during many of the 5A years. We watched a number of outstanding games. 
 

John Harrell provides a great archive of historical results. Check it out before going wild on your keyboard. 

[Indiana Fan]

16 hours ago, temptation said:

Eh, not as much when you look at their path…two gimmes to start the tournament annually.

I think regardless it’s impressive. The fact that a program can keep that dominance and focus and every other aspect it takes to win games and make runs year after year is a testament. No dog in the fight here, I’m just pointing out that it is incredibly impressive. There have been years in there that CG did not have the talent to always be at the top of the state. It is the best program in the state right now and there is no doubt in that.

Edited November 19, 2023 by Indiana Fan
Spelling

[temptation]

44 minutes ago, Bash Riprock said:

You simply can’t help yourself, can you?
 

You recently posted correctly on another thread CG’s difficulty last year getting past FC in the sectional on the way to their third straight 6A title. Some of us actually were in the stands watching our kids play during this 18 year window and we know CG wasn’t lighting every team up by 4 TD’s during those sectionals, especially during many of the 5A years. We watched a number of outstanding games. 
 

John Harrell provides a great archive of historical results. Check it out before going wild on your keyboard. 

You’re gonna make me crush you with stats again aren’t you?

I’ll check back in later.  Hitting breakfast with my 8 out of 10.

[BTF]

1 hour ago, Indiana Fan said:

I think regardless it’s impressive. The fact that a program can keep that dominance and focus and every other aspect it takes to win games and make runs year after year is a testament. No dog in the fight here, I’m just pointing out that it is incredibly impressive. There have been years in there that CG did not have the talent to always be at the top of the state. It is the best program in the state right now and there is no doubt in that.

It's hard to ignore the kind of passion Eric Moore puts into his program. I think he's paid handsomely to do that. Regardless, he's done a very good job. Kudos to him. 

[GOLDRUSH1985]

1 hour ago, temptation said:

You’re gonna make me crush you with stats again aren’t you?

I’ll check back in later.  Hitting breakfast with my 8 out of 10.

You actually have time to come out of mommy's basement to get breakfast ? Shouldn't you be behind the PC looking up pages after pages of stats, so you can try and prove someone's post wrong? Better grab Mcdonalds to go so you can get back down to the Tool room . 

[temptation]

44 minutes ago, GOLDRUSH1985 said:

You actually have time to come out of mommy's basement to get breakfast ? Shouldn't you be behind the PC looking up pages after pages of stats, so you can try and prove someone's post wrong? Better grab Mcdonalds to go so you can get back down to the Tool room . 

My mother is deceased…didn’t have enough money growing up to afford a basement.

Just scraping by on two poor teacher salaries with my 8 out of 10.

Stats forthcoming.

[temptation]

5 hours ago, Bash Riprock said:

You simply can’t help yourself, can you?
 

You recently posted correctly on another thread CG’s difficulty last year getting past FC in the sectional on the way to their third straight 6A title. Some of us actually were in the stands watching our kids play during this 18 year window and we know CG wasn’t lighting every team up by 4 TD’s during those sectionals, especially during many of the 5A years. We watched a number of outstanding games. 
 

John Harrell provides a great archive of historical results. Check it out before going wild on your keyboard. 

Let me first apologize to those reading this thread as well as anyone not named @Bash Riprock associated with the CG program as it’s taking a turn sideways.  Some folks view things as black and white and it is a character flaw they just cannot overcome.  Those who have followed my posts on this forum since I joined know that I have the utmost respect for Eric Moore and the CG program and it is well documented if you care to look it up.  The following data is not a dismissal of any of their accomplishments nor an attempt to throw shade at the Trojans, rather a factual summary of the claim made that caused outrage and sent one forum member to the emergency room with a coronary…again.  The Temp has a dedication to accuracy.
 

The Temp claimed that CG’s sectional dominance was impressive but had the NERVE to not bow down and claim it was the most fascinating or impressive streak known to mankind which triggered another forum member.

Since 2008, (omitting 2009 where CG was defeated in the sectional round), the Trojans won their 33 sectional contests by an average score of 42-10 (32 points).  That’s MORE than a 4 TD margin of victory for you math majors scoring at home.

They defeated 10 different opponents in this time frame and only TWO (Franklin whom they played once (21 point margin of victory) and Franklin Central (23.7 point margin of victory) were able to keep the margin under four TDs.

In fact, of the 33 contests played, an overwhelming 22 of them (67%) were won by 28 or more points.

So, how good were these stalwarts the Trojans were defeating regularly you ask?  Heading into the contests against CG, their sectional opponents were an average of 6-4 with Bartholomew County schools Columbus East and Columbus North accounting for 11 of the 21 contests actually played against a team with a winning record at the time of kickoff.  
 

Of course I took advantage of this fabulous Harrell website you referenced (kudos to John) and factored in the strength of schedule of East and North and it falls in the mid 60s over this time period, thus inflating the record of those two schools as they were defeating schools from the mighty Hoosier Hills conference and Conference Indiana.

A summary of the data collected can be found below and certainly some sort of defensive rebuttal will be made in an attempt to discredit the numbers staring folks directly in the face.

For what it’s worth, I also do not believe Penn winning the NIC in football nor Gonzaga winning the WCC annually in men’s basketball is the greatest accomplishment known to mankind as when you have better players, better coaching, better facilities, etc you should expect to defeat lesser teams.

I’d finally like to apologize to Eric Moore as I guess my years of touting your accomplishments and anointing you as one of the four best coaches in Indiana high school history just simply isn’t good enough for some.  Any statement made to the contrary (Carson Steele’s lack of track speed, Russ Yeast beating Steele in a foot race or CG’s population exploding in the 90s) simply proves that I hate the Trojans and do not bow at the throne as I should.  
 

CG is the greatest football program worldwide and I am deeply sorry that I insinuated otherwise.  I hope we can move past my transgressions and I can truly be forgiven by the message board gods who hang on my every word.

Edited November 19, 2023 by temptation

[GOLDRUSH1985]

I feel sorry for anyone that would actually waste time reading this . Dude spends way to much time in the Tool room . 

[temptation]

40 minutes ago, GOLDRUSH1985 said:

I feel sorry for anyone that would actually waste time reading this . Dude spends way to much time in the Tool room . 

Yep.  I’m the hammer.  You and @Bash Riprock are the nails.

Edited November 19, 2023 by temptation

[Rodney]

8 hours ago, temptation said:

You’re gonna make me crush you with stats again aren’t you?

I’ll check back in later.  Hitting breakfast with my 8 out of 10.

why were you eating breakfast at 10 in the morning

[GOLDRUSH1985]

3 minutes ago, Rodney said:

why were you eating breakfast at 10 in the morning

He can't leave the Tool room for an extended time, he might miss something that would make him go 7-10, God forbid. He loves to tell everyone how good he is at predicting High School football games. All the info he uses is right on the web, but most people don't have a special room for TOOLS like he does. Most people have a real job and a life, so spending hours researching Sagarin, Harrell, etc is not an option. Temp is the kid who rode the pine on his high school Tennis, Soccer and Cross-Country teams, who somehow morphed into Indiana's Mr. Football.