foxbat

Texas used to do something like this wherein, after their teams were determined for the post-season, the top two teams in a district were placed in Division 1 and the 3rd/4th team were placed in Division 2. All teams in a district were the same class, so you'd have, for example, two 6A Division 1 schools and two 6A Division 2 schools coming out of a district. Was easy to do, but also had some lopsided number in the division because, in one district you could have four of the smallest teams in the state playing and thus, the top two teams in the district would be, likely, playing against much larger schools. They've since changed things where they assign the schools to divisions before the season starts based on enrollment. As such, Division 1 schools will be the biggest schools regardless of district. You can see cutoffs here: https://www.texasfootball.com/article/2023/12/08/breaking-uil-announces-enrollment-cutoffs-for-2024-26-district-realignment. Texas played 12 championship games this past season; two divisions across six classes. Took them four days to do it at AT&T Stadium ... three per day starting on Wednesday, but they weren't dancing around Thanksgiving though. I can't imagine Indiana doing four days worth of games ... and definitely not over Thanksgiving.

I've heard this before, but I'm trying to wrap my head around where this has happened that didn't have something wonky attached to it, perhaps outside of Cathedral. And even in the case of Cathedral, I don't think they've ever returned to their enrollment class, 4A Chatard's "move down" from 4A was based on a single season when the IHSAA implementing a COVID review and sticking them in a sectional with Roncalli. LCC moved down because the points to stay up was four points at the time. I'm trying to think through who else has yo-yo'd, perhaps outside of Pioneer ... but that's a public school and they've been 2-8 and 5-5 since moving back down and haven't made it past a first-round game. Even folks like Linton and Scecina that went up on SF were large enough after the fact, moving from 1A to 2A, to remain in 2A regardless of SF. Adams Central will end up being the third such school. Matter of fact, in 1A so far, there have been seven total instances of teams being SF'd up to 2A, with LCC being the only one to yo-yo ... again because of the four-point rule: LCC - The first and has been SF'd twice and a member of the inaugural class. Moved down once because the cutoff was four points as mentioned above. Moved back up as one of the first team's to be SF'd by doing worse in their second year of the cycle than the first in 2021. Picked up three points in the current 2A stay. Will be remaining in 2A for the next cycle. Scecina - Moved up as a result of picking up 6 points in the inaugural SF class in 2013. Up until this last season, the only team to be SF'd without a blue ring. Adams Central just joined that distinguished club. Scecina has never moved back down as a result now of enrollment. Linton was SF'd in the 3rd SF class since no one in 1A picked up enough points in the second SF cycle to be bumped in 2017 season. Like Scecina, has never moved back down as a result now of enrollment. Pioneer finally SF'd in 2019 after three straight appearances at LOS netting two blue rings and a red. Remained in 2A for 1 1/2 seasons before COVID half-season sent them back down to 1A. As noted above, haven't escaped a first round 1A game with a win since. Adams Central just joined the Scecina/Pioneer having three straight LOS appearances combined with no blue rings. Will likely not end up coming down as they are likely to join the other distinct club: the Linton/Scecina club where they get SF'd and get too big to come down regardless of SF. Lutheran just joined the Pioneer club along with the WeBo club in that they had three straight LOS appearances and also picked up three straight blue rings. Will see need to wait to see if they don't weather 2A, but last year they likely could have easily gotten to 2A semi-state. As such, since the end of the 2012 season, six programs in 1A have been SF'd with the very unique situations of two-thirds of the programs being bumped in just a pair of SF cycles. Of interest is the mix is three p/p and three public. Only two 1A teams out of six have returned, LCC and Pioneer, and, in the case of LCC, it was because the requirement was four points to stay. Technically, LCC is the only one to really yo-yo and, again, due to the four-point rule. With the data points, I'm not seeing 1A at much risk; especially if the argument is that the p/ps have enormous benefits, as SF will address it and, the potential discrepancies at the lower levels are much more likely to NOT have p/p programs returning back down from a 2A environment.

I watched Faith Christian take a 80-2 beating at the hands of Indiana School for the Deaf in 8-on-8 last season. That should be the poster child citing for not having an automatic banishment from 1A if you are a p/p school. If they get better, SF will take care of it.

Need 3 to stay now.

LCC stays in 2A via SF. Lutheran moves to 2A via SF.

Speaking of slotting in for Jeff, with Jeff slotting in for Harrison in Sectional 13 in 5A ... Jeff may find post season tough with the likes of Decatur Central and Plainfield in that sectional.

Some folks would argue that, up until Jim Mora got there, New Orleans didn't have football either. Lord, I apologize for that there.

IHSAA:

Also, as seen with SF, the IHSAA, even when it accepts something from the IFCA, doesn't necessarily put it in as an unadulterated item ... hence the two-year window we have as opposed to the four-year IFCA-suggested window.

I'll take that bet. I think that they won't get by both Roncalli and Cathedral. They'll be competitive, but they get Roncalli on the road this year ... and I'm not sold on the idea that Roncalli will be 4-7 again this coming season.

Jeff is sitting at just a tad over 2000 or so. At best, at the lower part of 6A, and may end up being at the top of 5A soon ... possibly even next classification. Growth is occurring in the county, Harrison, and less in the city in the Lafayette/West Lafayette area.

My old school district, Cy-Fair in Texas, is 100,000+. Currently has 13 high schools in it with 12 ranked the equivalent of Indiana 6A and 9 of them with 3,000+ enrollment ... and they are only about half the size of Houston Independent School District.

Yes, it would be, but the Sectional of Death in 3A and Chatard's last sectional assignment in 4A runs contrary to that thesis.

It takes time to get Chatard, Roncalli, Brebeuf, and Dwenger all in the same sectional and make it look random.

I used to be an enforcer on the basketball team. The coach would send me in, remind me that I had five fouls, and told me not to come back until I'd used them all.

If they weren't playing anyone in Indiana, which seems to be an issue, there would still be an issue for their JV and freshmen. Harrison played all instate and inside of their old conference, but they had four JV games against opponents different than the varsity or cancelled. Freshman had at least five. Too bad for Harrison, October 18 is the only date that Harrison shows an opponent for the upcoming season so far on Harrell's.

Don't know if they still have the agreement, but I know for a while, some students at LCC were taking honors biology classes over at Lafayette Jeff. As for the parochial schools feeding into public schools, that even happens outside of the rural areas. Here in Lafayette, St. James Lutheran only has K-8, so while some of their kids may mosey over to Faith Christian or even possibly LCC, the vast majority end up in the public schools around the area. Similarly, Lafayette Christian only has K-8. A decent number of their kids end up heading to Faith Christian, by comparison to St. James, but there's also a decent amount that end up heading to the local public schools when high school rolls around.

Will that be enough to put RCHS back down in 2A?

Just gotta worry about the unnecessary roughness call.

I think you are using the term yo-yo incorrectly in this case. There are two places where the "yo yo" effect had had an impact in a p/p context and, in both of those cases, it was not due to a stable use of SF: In 2015, LCC's return ... yo-yo ... back to 1A from 2A was due to SF requiring 4 points to stay up instead of 2 points. Had SF used 2 points, LCC would not have returned back to 1A to win a state title in 2015 over Linton. LCC would later end up staying in 2A for just having a single point in COVID realignment in 2021. Which brings us to Chatard, who bounced back down to 3A after being SF'd to 4A for a single season. In their infinite wisdom, Chatard was placed in the same sectional with Roncalli, which caused the Trojans to end up with 0 points and, in a one-season realignment moved back to 3A. Likely, if Chatard had been placed in any of at least half the 4A sectionals that year, they would have gotten one point and, like LCC, remained up in the class where they were SF'd. Folks are likely to point to Lutheran's recent domination in 1A, but note that Lutheran only had two tangles in the last decade with p/p schools that kept them from progressing out of 1A; although they will now be departing due to SF. In 2019 and 2020, Lutheran's state title hopes were dashed by LCC and Covenant Christian respectively; however, in the years since LCC was SF'd, Lutheran's seasons were ended by public schools including South Putnam, North Vermillion [three times across five seasons], Linton, and Eastern Greene prior to the last three years' worth of run.

I don't see it that way. Your statement is that p/p advantage pretty much dissipates after 3A. The folks that pointed out the flaw in your reasoning weren't, IMO, addressing the flaw with your reasoning by claiming that p/p enjoys an advantage at all classes, but that your premise seems not to be definitive in its own right in that there were three programs that did well in that 4A grouping.

Court order?

I'm not sure there's enough material there for wadding.

Woudn't matter much. Anderson got Snider last year in a 3-man section and lost 44-14 in first game of post-season. Had North the season before and lost 49-9 in the first game of post-season. Had Kokomo the season before and lost 35-6 in the first game of post-season. Season before it was Dwenger and lost 42-6 in the first game of post-season. Harrison the season before that and lost 35-0 in the first game of post-season. I'm thinking its not an issue of which sectional they end up in ... they need to get away from Ft. Wayne; and possibly the North all together.