jets

18 hours ago, Slobberknocker said:

Could you elaborate on why you think you will be good? From what I see from looking at last year stats it would suggest a rebuilding year.

As the list below would suggest:

·        Lost Purdue QB replaced with a JR QB that had 4 passing attempts last year.

·        Lost 3 out of 4 top receivers including the two bests

·        On defense it looks like they have 1 returning starter. Ouch!

One upside GS returns there leading rusher. Is GS going to become a rushing team?

 

 

I'll just say that no one down here expects GS to take any steps backwards. They have PLENTY of good football players that have just been waiting their turn for Friday nights. (And if not, well this would be the time to insert a transfer joke, but I ain't gonna. Turning over new leaf this year)

From the outside looking one might think losing a D1 arm would bring them back to the pack so-to-speak, but us PAC folk know better. 

2 hours ago, coachmay said:

Class 2A SOUTHERN FOOTBALL SECTIONALS

 

When you look at a map there are 16 teams in the south, 8 teams in the southeast {sectional 39 below} and 8 teams in the southwest {sectional 40 below}, which would have been two perfect geographical based sectionals.  Then sectional 37 would have been Indianapolis then to the West, while sectional 38 would have been Indianapolis then to the East. Both sectional 37 & 38 would also have been better geographically which I describe later on. 

This would NOT affect the 4 northern sectionals.

 

CLASS 2A SOUTHERN SECTIONALS BASED ON GEOGRAPHY

37- Cascade, Christel House, Greencastle, Indianapolis Cardinal Ritter, Indianapolis Scecina Memorial, North Putnam, South Vermillion & Southmont

 

38- Eastern Hancock, Heritage Christian, Lapel, Northeastern, Shenandoah, Triton Central, Union County & Winchester

 

39- Brown County, Brownstown Central, Clarksville, Crawford County, Eastern {Pekin}, Mitchell, Paoli & Switzerland County

 

40- Evansville Mater Dei, Forest Park, Linton-Stockton, North Knox, North Posey, Perry Central, Sullivan & Tell City

 

        Sectional 40- was an easy adjustment, why was it changed??

        a} Past 3 years Linton-Stockton & North Knox have been in sectional 40, why move them to sectional 37?

        b} South Spencer dropped to 1A, Sullivan dropped to 2A, easy switch, put Sullivan in Sectional 40. They have been in Sectional 40 before.

        c} Perry Central moved up to 2A- they are farther west then Crawford County, Perry Central in sectional 40 and move Crawford County to 39.

 

Approved Sectionals

Instead of what's listed above the Class 2A sectional 39 that was approved, has one team on the Ohio River {Switzerland County}, plus Eastern, Clarksville and Brownstown Central having to drive to Indianapolis {Scecina Memorial HS, Christel House HS & Triton Central HS} instead of being in the same sectional as Paoli, Mitchell & Crawford County. To be honest, this does not make any sense to us? 

 

Listed below are different mileage Comparison for sectionals 37, 38, 39 & 40

 

1} Approved Sectional 39

    a} Brownstown Central - 

        to Scecina Memorial 77 miles

         to Christel House 71 miles,      

         to Triton Central  68 miles

    

  b} Clarksville - 

         to Scecina Memorial 114 miles, 

         to Christel House 107 miles,

         to Triton Central  104 miles

 

   c}  Eastern

        to Scecina Memorial 113 miles

        to Christel House 108 miles

        to Triton Central  105 miles

 

   d} Switzerland County- 

       to Scecina Memorial 105 miles

        to Christel House 108 miles

        to Triton Central  88 miles

 

 

2} Geographical based sectional 39 that's listed above- 

    All 4 schools are considerably closer to Crawford Co, Mitchell & Paoli then to Scecina Memorial, Christel House & Triton Central

   a} Brownstown Central 

       to Crawford County 62 miles       

       to Paoli  43 miles                    

       to Mitchell  36 miles

 

   b} Clarksville                    

      to Crawford County 43 miles      

      to Paoli  48 miles                    

      to Mitchell  56 miles

 

   c} Eastern                       

       to Crawford County 38 miles      

       to Paoli  32 miles                   

       to Mitchell  35 miles

 

   d} Switzerland County     

       to Crawford County 112 miles     

       to Paoli   84 miles                   

       to Mitchell 86 miles

 

 

3} Mileage Comparison For Scecina Memorial in sectional 37 listed above instead of approved sectional 39- 

    All schools are closer to Scecina (and Christel House) in this sectional 37- then the approved sectional 39

    to South Vermillion  98 miles      

    to Southmont 55 miles

    to North Putnam 52 miles

    to Greencastle 48 miles

    to Cascade 36 miles

 

 

4} Mileage Comparison for Triton Central in sectional 38 listed above instead of approved sectional 39- 

    All schools are closer to Triton Central in this sectional 38- then the approved sectional 39

   to Winchester 85 miles

   to Northeastern  85 miles

   to Union County 60 miles

   to Shenandoah 46 miles

   to Lapel  45 miles

  to Eastern Hancock 29 Miles

 

 

5} Mileage Comparison - Geographical based sectional 40, compared with approved sectional 39- 

    All 3 schools have less travel in Sectional 40- then Brownstown Central, Clarksville, Eastern & Switzerland County have in approved 39.

   Sullivan -        

    to Perry Central 101 miles       

    to Forest Park  80 miles     

    to North Posey  79 miles   

    to Mater Dei 87 miles

 

   Linton-           

    to Perry Central  91 miles       

    to Forest Park  69 miles   

     to North Posey  83 miles     

     to Mater Dei 98 miles

 

   North Knox-   

    to Perry Central  82 miles      

    to Forest Park  60 miles  

    to North Posey   65 miles     

    to Mater Dei 73 miles

 

 

In conclusion, over the past few months the IHSAA has made some changes in regards to mistakes made in enrollment classifications (with the private schools) and the success factor (with Pioneer).  Hopefully they will take the time to look over the approved Class 2A sectional assignments and realize that there is a better geographical way to align the south. With inflation and the rise in gas prices it would benefit all schools to align the sectionals based on geography.

 

 

 

Reed May

Head Football Coach

Brownstown Central HS

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Wow - good work there Coach. It is obvious you put a lot of time and thought into the above proposal. And, it makes a lot of sense geographically. 

I obviously can't speak for the IHSAA obviously - but perhaps they (the IHSAA) were focused more on "competitive balance" in different sectionals than based solely on geography? 

Not saying right or wrong either way and not intended to put down any programs- but maybe that's the angle they were trying for? 

5 minutes ago, crimsonace1 said:

Pioneer won a regional in 2020. I don't know why they went back to 1A, unless the IHSAA just decided to apply only SF points earned last year to keep them on the same plane as LCC & Chatard. 

Southridge was moving up to 3A due to enrollment no matter what happened with the Success Factor. 

I understand that we were moving up because of enrollment - but when that was "still in the air" - it was communicated that we would be staying up because of SF. 

In fact, believe it was you crimsonace1 that said as much. So why the change? 

1 hour ago, Punttheball said:

Wouldn't it be great if the IHSAA issued a statement explaining the situation?  Obviously nobody knows why Pioneer is now down along with Chatard.  It also seems that no one has a clue as to why LCC is up in 2A.  Heck, Pioneer has been in 2A, back down to 1A, aligned in Sectional 34 in 2A, and the realigned into a 1A sectional...all in a 4 week span. So does the IHSAA even know why?

I was under the impression that Pioneer and Southridge were in the same boat in regards to SF points? (Both winning a regional in 2020 and nothing in 2021). We were told, regardless of what happened with our enrollment, that we were remaining up due to SF. 

Guess they changed their mind? 

5 hours ago, Wedgebuster said:

Teaching is harder than it's ever been and teacher pay in Indiana doesn't compare well to surrounding states.  Many schools haven't redone their coaching pay scales in 20+ years (hard to up coaching pay when teacher pay is lagging so far behind).  Finding assistant coaches is harder than ever as the number of young people entering education continues to decline.  Then there is the expectation by parents that with 2 assistants at the school and with your $7000 stipend that the program should resemble a small college, all while being one of the most widely criticized humans in a given school district............. it becomes a less and less attractive job every year.  

Some schools invest more than others and are rewarded with a stable coaching staff and with that stability often comes success.  Other schools choose to constantly band aid the situation and ignore the facts of what it takes to run a competitive program in 2022.  Those places will continue to struggle. 

This right here. Some can manage - but the days of a core classroom teacher (excluding PE here) meeting the demands of both classroom and coaching expectations is being more rare and rare. 

Successful (football) schools have countered by "creating" non-classroom positions for Head coaches that allow more time for the prep work of a head coach. 

Maybe just end the charade and make it like Texas. 

1 hour ago, oldtimeqb said:

 

My take with the caveat that I love the 'old 24/new 32' footprint before they created the debacle that was 30 for the last 3 years.

Sectional 29 (WIC & Sagamore) - Danville, Tri-West, North Montgomery, WeBo, West Vigo, Monrovia, Indian Creek, Owen Valley

Sectional 30 (Indy and East) - Speedway, Purdue Poly (I think it's in Indy?), Guerin, Batesville, Rushville, Greensburg, Hamilton Heights + BYE

Sectional 31 (MSC, EIAC) - North Harrison, Scottsburg, Corydon, Salem, Lawrenceburg, South Dearborn, Franklin County, Madison 

Sectional 32 (PAC + VL) - Lincoln, Washington, Heritage Hills, Southridge, Pike Central, Gibson Southern, Mt Vernon Posey, Princeton

I think 31 and 32 should be pretty easy.  I assume a bye will factor in somewhere, because I don't anticipate a full 64 team field. 

Aren't Batesville, Rushville, and Greensburg all in Sectional 31 currently? And in the EIAC?? 

Can someone smarter than me take a shot at Southern 3A sectionals with the new enrollment numbers? Seems to be way spaced out geographically.

In Sect. 30 - you had Edgewood, Brown County, and Sullivan all move out. So need 3 teams there...

In Sect. 31- Brownstown left (seems like Salem would be an easy replacement there)

In Sect. 32- Evansville Bosse got moved out, and if Salem slides to 31, that's 2 that will need replaced. 

13 hours ago, tango said:

I heard GS was getting a transfer from IL who is a QB... 

You mean in addition to the one who already transferred in?!? 

Houses must be dirt cheap over in Gibson County. Gonna have to talk with my wife about taking a peak that way! 

Who are Memorial's new additions this year?? Did both RB's graduate from last year?? 

Is this what high school sports are going to become - the transfer portals?!? I guess if colleges can do it, why shouldn't we??

6 hours ago, NLCTigerFan07 said:

Hey @jets - Just following up here. With the updated enrollment numbers, it looks like Southridge will be in 3A due to enrollment anyway. I show them as the 3rd smallest school via enrollment in class 3A.

Even if Chatard gets bumped to stay in class 4A and Western Boone gets bumped to stay in class 3A, Southridge will still stay in 3A.

Ya - seems all the SF mumble jumble jocking was a moot point after all. I didn't think the 517 number would be enough to keep us in 3A , seeing as how we were actually larger in our 2017 State Championship year (2A)- but I guess that's how the numbers played out. 

Now, for the IHSAA sectional alignments to play out. (Please fix sectional 30!) 

1 minute ago, crimsonace1 said:

It's pretty easy to do - especially since it will likely only affect two. Just put the 7-team sectional in 3A & 1A in an area where Chatard & LCC could easily drop in. 

Sectional maps, spreadsheets, etc....

Who died and made you "Classification expert!?!?" 

-I kid I kid....at least someone is trying to come up with something that makes sense. 

I still find it hard to believe that a 517 number places us in the 3A enrollment, when in years past we've been up in the 530s and still been 2A. 

Oh well, time to get to work. 

2 hours ago, crimsonace1 said:

It seems most of the issues were with private school enrollments - and some of them were several years out of date. It appears the IHSAA was given bad data by the Department of Education. While public schools have a "count day" and have to report that data to the DOE for funding purposes, private schools have different funding mechanisms (vouchers & tuition), so their reporting is different. 

1 hour ago, Titan32 said:

So their enrollments are higher when they want government funding and lower to classify for sports?  I mean this wouldn't surprise me at all.

🤔. Hmmmm ?????

31 minutes ago, crimsonace1 said:

The SF is a 2-year cycle, but the last enrollment cycle was a three-year one because of COVID screwing with the enrollment numbers. Because SR & Pioneer's latest regional title came in what will now be the *first* year of the new two-year cycle, they'll get an extra year. New Pal & a couple other schools drop back down a year early, too. Someone is going to benefit and someone's going to stay up an extra year. You're not going to come up with a system that pleases everyone. 

As I read the IHSAA's notes on their Success Factor page, what I think will be the only mid-cycle adjustment will be Chatard, WeBo & LCC will stay up for the first year of the cycle and move back down. But that's a stab and hasn't been confirmed with the IHSAA. 

Southridge may be moving up on enrollment in 2024 as it is. 

Exactly- I guess someone had to fall on the sword. 

While LCC and Chatard get to move back down (maybe)

That makes a ton of sense. 

And you're more than likely right about enrollment- but at 517 would have liked one last go around in 2A instead of an extra SF year. 

-

52 minutes ago, NLCTigerFan07 said:

But they aren't... look above. The 2020-21 and 2021-22 seasons are getting counted into the Success Factor point totals this year. Both Pioneer and Southridge won Regionals Championships (worth 2 points) within that 2 year cycle, not 3 years.

Granted, I'm not a smart guy, so I'll try and lay this out (football years listed)

17- Won State

18- Semi-State appearance 

19&20 - bumped up due to SF

19- sectional loss (no points)

20- semi-state appearance

21&22 - stay up due to semi-state appearance

21- sectional loss

22- ??

23 - ?? 

So, as stated previously - that is a 3 year stay based on the SF? 

2 minutes ago, NLCTigerFan07 said:

How are they sacrificial lambs? They earned 2 points in the latest 2 year cylce while being bumped up a class.... that's the rule that keeps them up a class for another cycle.

I was under the impression the SF was a 2 year cycle- but I get blasted every time I try and point out SR/Pioneer could potentially get 3 years under this decision. 

1 minute ago, crimsonace1 said:

Pioneer and SR both earned 2 points in 2020 and success factor points are calculated over the two years prior to the reclassification. 

We don't know what the IHSAA will do with Chatard, WeBo & LCC, but neither accumulated two points last year in their new class. 

Correct- and to my understanding - the SF is suppose to be a 2 year window, correct? 

SO, if SR does not accumulate any SF points in the upcoming football season, we can move back down for the 23 season? 

Potentially, SR/Pioneer get 3 years stays without accumlating any SF points, and Chatard/LCC get 1 year passes? 

Got it- makes a ton of sense. 

So Pioneer and SR are the public school sacrificial lambs in this scenario?? And from what I'm reading, Chatard and LCC get a move down? 

Ya- this whole thing makes a ton of sense. 

Bravo IHSAA, bravo

23 minutes ago, oldtimeqb said:

MD's 170 or 195 did NOT play football in Fall 2021.  You can double check with the football state finals program. 

 

Was watching the broadcast Saturday night and I thought they said he did, I must have heard wrong. 

I'm sure it's been said previously in this thread - but people discouraging athletes from competing in other sports are just flat missing the boat, IMO. 

Did anyone actually answer the original question of this thread?? I believe someone said the HWT State Champ played football. Assuming the 220 did as well. I know the MD 170 played...not sure on the 195 (?) 

1 hour ago, coachmay said:

Where did you get that I was ok with anything? I just stated the success factor rule?

Unfortunately for us the IHSAA did not reclassify last year. Our enrollment would have put us in 2A, {our enrollment as of last week was 475}. We finished the season at 11-1 but we got beat by a very good Lawrenceburg team in the sectional championship game and if we would have won, we would have played the 3A state champion {Gibson Southern} in the regional. Like yourself we were NOT ok with the IHSAA not reclassifying last year. Believe me, I wish we had been in 2A last year, but we weren't.

I would also like to say that Coach Buening and I are very good friends and I want nothing but the best for Southridge HS. Hopefully, the IHSAA will reclassify this year and we both will be back in 2A.

 

You're right - my apologies. 

Just a frustrating situation that I feel like is getting kind of "glossed" over cause well, it doesn't affect that many people (schools) it seems. 

Is our situation really that unique?? 

3 hours ago, coachmay said:

 

4} Success factor adjustment will be based on the 20-21 and 21-22 school years.

 

 So you're OK with a school (Southridge) being given an "extra" success factor year, just because the IHSAA says so?? 

And essentially the State Champs this year given an "extra" year to not move up? 

Of course you are, because it generally benefits your situation. Ours, not so much. 

In the end it doesn't matter - the IHSAA will do whatever is easiest for them and causes the least ruffles. I've tried contacting and reaching out and essentially it's "Sorry, you (Southridge) are just a casualty and will cause the least amount of ruffles" - it is just too bad for our kids. 

The IHSAA's decision on how to handle the COVID year and "screws" it will put to some programs (ours being one). 

I don't even know really where to start - but I'll just use our case as an example :

Won State in 2017, went to semi-state 2018. Got bumped up to 3A as a result. 2019 beat in 3A sectional...2020 3A semi-state (enough points to keep us up for another 2 year cycle)

So (using football years here) 2021 season beat in 3A sectional...2022 SHOULD potentially be our last in 3A based on enrollment figures just released, which would put us back in 2A. 

HOWEVER - the IHSAA decides...well, we're just gonna wait till 2023 to put everyone back on the same page, sorry about your luck?? So the success factor was suppose to be a 2 year cycle, but we're just the lucky ones to potentially get an extra year?? 

So essentially the State Champs this year get a free pass as well?? 

I know there wasn't a great way to handle the COVID year, but I think I could have come up with a better solution. 

Why not just have a "rolling" 2 year count...what is so hard with that?? It would keep teams from catching the "lucky" side of the window or whatever you want to call it. 

I know, first world problems....just bored on these snow days

On 12/17/2021 at 2:02 PM, 1st_and_10 said:

Webo/Chatard/LCC will either be playing in a class up again for the next 2 years (making 3 years in the SF) or they only do 1 year and reset everything (wipe the slate)… I highly doubt (with almost a 99% certainty) that the IHSAA is not going to go through this exercise again (enrollment, sectional alignments, etc.) next year to ensure 3 schools stay up for their mandatory 2 year cycle.

Wherever the IHSAA puts us (Webo), we’ll show up and play.

We would be in this same boat as well (well, actually making it 5 years of SF for us) 

So what are the IHSAA options regarding classification and alignment after freezing last year due to COVID?? 

Option #1 (and probably the easiest) - wipe the slate completely clean for everyone, success factor and all - and just put schools in classes based on enrollments? (Meaning this years State Champions get a free pass)

Option #2 - last year's enrollments were frozen, but success factor points were not. So you vote to try and keep everyone success factor'd on the same schedule, meaning some schools will possibly be punished with a 3 year success factor window? 

Are those basically the 2 options? 

4 hours ago, hhpatriot04 said:

Historically... Reitz or Jasper. The tournament, classes, and now the success factor have all changed how we can measure the success of programs.

But seriously, Reitz, what is going on? Mater Dei certainly isn't the MD of yesteryear, but with the success factor and the SIAC schedule and Coach Goebel, it can handle Class 2A South most years (I don't think these MD teams have the talent of the 00's)...

As much heck as I have given Reitz, SW Indiana needs you to help elevate big class football in SW Indiana. Memorial, Jasper, and for a few years Central did so, but "Let's Go Panthers!"

Quick quiz - since the success factor implementation, which 2A school has been bumped up for tournament success? SR, or MD? Wasn't this thing put in place for the private/parochial schools anyway?!? 

I suspect, with 28 juniors on their roster, MD will be making their SF trip up soon, that is, unless, the IHSAA decides the COVID year really didn't happen? 

11 hours ago, Screagle said:

@Titan32 Not taking anything away from other programs but there’s no doubt where to go for football success with best chances for deep tournament runs and exposure in SW Indiana. No particular order top 3 EM, MD and GS.  Next 3 SR, HH and maybe Castle. 

44 minutes ago, superjay said:

If I were to move my kid down south for football only.  I would go to Heritage Hills.  Linton would be my 2nd choice.  

I don't think you could go wrong with the PAC conference in general. A quick plug for SR successes, going back the last couple of decades (2000s to present) I believe we actually hold a slim margin of victories head-head vs. MD. Especially of late, their successes have came when we've been bumped up due to the success factor and/or enrollment. That in no way is meant to diminish what they have accomplished, again just putting a plug in for us. 

The success factor is a fickle thing..I'm not sure Memorial was too heartbroken to be in 4A the last couple of years?? Whereas, again, a 3A semi-state team I would like to think had a chance of a Lucas trip had we been in the correct classification. 

As is life though...