Lysander

Agreed. That’s cash in the bank.

So you can’t buy paper tickets at the school any longer? ………d@mn I’m OLD.

To be somewhat clear on this whole thread, I essentially ACCUSED the IHSAA of Gerrymandering in another thread to put all the P&Ps in the same sectional(s) whenever they possibly can. My point was if they didn’t intentionally do this then the Success Factored teams might actually stay “up”. Certainly the case with Chatard/Roncalli. Having Chatard go North in 4A and Roncalli stay South would arguably be the “non-Gerrymandered” (I am straining the King’s English to a breaking point here) result that would actually result in what most want (likely including Chatard) - Chatard to no longer be in 3A. My opinion has long been that the IHSAA had less of a problem in football with P&P’s overall than it had a specific problem with Chatard in 3A and Cathedral in any class excepting 6A. Certainly the same could also be said of LCC in 1A. Well…they solved their Cathedral “problem”…..at least for the time being….even artificially shortening the “bump-up” timetable to do so. They put LCC on a Sectional island…solving that problem. The Chatard 3A problem only required them to keep Chatard and Roncalli (and probably Chatard/New Pal these days) in separate sectionals. It’s a very easy fix and, frankly, just the opposite of Gerrymandering. But the IHSAA does so love artificially eliminating P&P’s in Sectionals whenever possible that they continually lose sight of the Success Factor “big picture”. So, I would argue that the remaining P&P problem is an actual result of the IHSAA’s historic Gerrymandering.

No predictions but, to an extent, it’s the game I’ve wanted to see for years. My EIAC football heritage/rival vs. the HS where my kids played football. Personally, I’d like nothing better than the game to be played in Lawrenceburg where I, frankly, took years of shellackings. The absolute coolest HS field in SE Indiana.

Someone should put this on stone tablets.

Hopefully your services are up for bid. Admittedly some teams have a bottomless amount to pay you for services rendered (see “Cathedral”) but just which direction are you leaning? The world awaits. It matters.

Hardly a sheep. I’d suggest one look at CalPreps or Sagarin as regards Chatard’s ranking v. 4A the last 10 years or so. If Chatard simply splits v. Roncalli, they FAIL in the current system and bounce back down (For the record, just how Roncalli doesn’t win EVERYTHING the last 3 years straight in 4A and/or 5A with that MASSIVE O’line baffles me). Give Chatard or Cathedral (can’t believe I just said this) that Roncalli line and they tear it up…ANY class.

I’m not certain how this became the inevitable P&P “love” thread that shows up this time of year but since Cathedral and Roncalli are gone it seems that Chatard has become the foci (yeah, it’s a word) of all these good vibes. First, I was as disappointed as anyone when Chatard was moved back down…and I still believe (despite explanations otherwise) the IHSAA was so eager to push Cathedral up to 6A that they moved the timeline up a year and bumped Cathedral prematurely and somehow after all of the fallout….Chatard ends up back in 3A. Also, despite everyone’s declarations that this was a down year for Chatard, I was hoping for another game against Roncalli….the first one, frankly, could have gone either way. Yeah, Chatard got mauled by Christian Brothers and Cathedral but against really great teams that can, sadly, happen sometimes. Chatard played a solid Cincy Elder team (at Elder) within 5 with the only really “bad” game all year being the first Guerin win (in my opinion). Add that Chatard has been fairly hobbled at key positions at often key times this year. In other words, they are, in my opinion, a Helluva lot better team than given credit for this year and only now (for some reason) being given the credit due both on the analytics and general opinion in the state. As to just “why” Chatard keeps showing up in 3A, I believe you can thank the IHSAA on multiple levels. Primarily though, for the same type of “smart” (read “smart-a$$”) mentality that created Sectional 28 a few years ago. Lump all the P&P’s together in Sectional and eliminate most all of them early in the playoffs. It’s all good for a chuckle when every SINGLE 3A P&P South of Mishawaka is gerrymandered into the same Sectional with West Lafayette (an unofficial P&P) because it eliminates one or all of them by Regional. What a great laugh everyone gets from that. No matter that the Sectional features what are consistently 4 of the top 8 (often 3 of the top 5) 3A teams each year. That “smart” solution doesn’t work so well in Sectionals with bumped up teams. When the ABSOLUTELY inevitable Chatard/Roncalli sectional pairing takes place if Chatard doesn’t win it every year (despite even in a “bad” year Chatard likely still being a top 5 4A team) they have to go back to 3A. As it has turned out, every time Chatard goes up they catch Roncalli on an up year and lose and/or split the series. Change that up and Chatard will never go back to 3A. Keep making that short-sighted, self-satisfying Chatard/Roncalli pairing in Sectional and Chatard will always inevitably go back to 3A because of the nature of them splitting victories in their games. Some here are now complaining about Chatard being “back down” in 3A stomping on the poor unfortunates. Wait, what? Weren’t a LOT of these 3A fans beating their chests just a handful of years ago about 3A being better than 4A (which I would argue that it was at the very top of 3A…I don’t think anybody in 4A touches Chatard in 2019). Well, which are you? Victims or victors? This year it looks like the “victim” card has turned up. Also keep in mind 4A has changed again with its great teams that dominated 5A for so many years now back down in 4A and beating up each other enough that it’s hard for them to get back to 5A - like Cathedral, Columbus East and New Palestine did. Only Cathedral “stuck”. Surprisingly, Roncalli has never made the bump up. And White Shoes, please don’t be intentionally obtuse and please stop playing the victim unless you really like playing a rube….nobody is buying it. Stop taking Rodney (who I consider the new Coach Junction Boy here and appreciate his genius) seriously and at face value or the next time you will find yourself arguing with him about whether phrenology is the best way to select an offensive coordinator or the optimal ratio of water to ice in on-field refreshment. IO’s comments are an accepted “advantage” of P&P’s and oft cited by Publics as an advantage. I’d suggest someone start a separate “I Love P&Ps” thread and let people talk about the game if they want. I think it’s offensive to Lawrenceburg to make this a Chatard thread rather than give Lawrenceburg (my old HS conference rival along with EC) their due. Just my opinion.

But those current 5A teams (excepting Snider) would likely still b!tch about the unfairness of it all…..now they’d likely have to play ALL those good current 4A school not just the 1 or 2 bumped up 4A schools. Imagine what the 5A playoffs look like now if New Pal, Roncalli, East Central, Columbus East, Dwenger and others were competing every year with the current batch of 5A schools. I still see 5A as an orphan class that never should have been with only one legitimate consistent top 10-20 team year in and out - Snider.

Man….I just can’t say because I really can’t speak about those pre-2005 teams with adequate knowledge. Now, if he’d pop out of the shadows for a bit, I’d sure like to hear what @The TW had to say, though. With you on the “Rebels” thing, something gets caught in my throat when I try to say “Royals”. Probably a chronic condition on my part.

Agreed. EC probably should have won their first game this year but continually shot themselves in the foot with turnovers/penalties. I have to admit though, that winning 4A South this year reminds me of the good, old days of 10-15 years back when you had some great 4A teams fighting in the South like Cathedral, Reitz, Roncalli, EC and Columbus East (New Pal’s rise happened just a little afterwards). Whoever survives the South will be battle tested but the gauntlet Roncalli has run these last 3 games (including this one) is a beast.

Are you able to replay those if you buy the package (or even just a single game)? I’m out of town Friday for an early Thanksgiving dinner and will miss all of the games live.

Jet sweep right. Jet sweep left. Unless things have changed since the games I recall with Whiteland. Always a big physical group.

Congrats to both teams but as someone who still has Enlow PTSD was I mistaken in thinking there wasn’t a literal ocean of people in the Enlow stands like year’s past. I, perhaps mistakenly, recall those stands as being full to the brim during the various whoopings my beloved Trojans were bestowed there.

These two are old adversaries from Sectional 28 (the “Sectional of Death” as aptly named by Foxbat) although I believe they only played each other once during their shared time there - since Brebeuf and Guerin often interceded in preventing that anticipated WL/Chatard championship bout. Chatard appears to have healed up some (though not fully) vs. their early season dings. Last I checked, I think WL’s field is still grass which might have some effect on game play. That said, I just haven’t seen any of WL’s games this year. Thoughts on the game from those that have seen either or both?

I’m a fan of both EC and Roncalli but EC probably should have won that earlier game this year. Lots of self-inflicted injuries by EC in that game. In my opinion, NP, Roncalli and EC are far and away the top 3 teams in 4A (with, apparently, Brebeuf not too far behind). The South continues its domination of 4A.

Roncalli. 20 New Pal. 7 Final

Roncalli. 20 New Pal. 7 1:30 left in 4th

Chatard 35 Yorktown 7 Early 3rd

East Central 28 Evansville Memorial 0 Half

Excellence in anything requires a person to go above and beyond. If you want to describe it as a “job” so be it.

I can only speak for one school but “yes”. I think it just goes with the program if you want to be competitive.

Yes.

That's my recollection as well.

They were “success factored” but, like you, I can’t recall if they might have actually also been 5A coterminous with the bump up….in any event, it was close I believe. With that, I’d argue the only true 5A school to actually win 5A is Snider (in, arguably, the most exciting State Championship game I’ve ever watched). I realize that Westfield was technically 5A when it won but by everything I’ve read or seen both then and now, they were well into 6A student population the year they won. Truthfully, 5A has only ever had one legitimate “home grown” power - Snider. Every other champion has generally been jumped up 4As or a sole 6A on its way out. I’ll not pat myself on the back too hard but I called it back when 5A was given its mutant birth. 5A is essentially where every good 4A team wants to graze because the pickings are so easy.