2024 6A Who can win it all?

[Bobref]

5 minutes ago, temptation said:

 I am going to remain subdued this time around.

😂🤣😅

Unlikely.

[BTF]

9 minutes ago, temptation said:

1. Hell, it’s been stated on this thread that if one were asked to rank Hamilton County’s programs today, Carmel would be 4th.

2. I have proclaimed the HCC as the future for a half decade now and always end up with egg on my face in November.  I am going to remain subdued this time around.
 

3. With BD/Warren likely starting the season 1-2 in some order, maybe THIS is the year someone else surprises?  

1. Carmel is only four years removed from a state title. They'll be back. 

2. Lol.

3. Warren will have a massive test in Week 1. 

 

[temptation]

10 minutes ago, Bobref said:

😂🤣😅

Unlikely.

Brownsburg has broken me Bob.

[psaboy]

7 minutes ago, BTF said:

1. Carmel is only four years removed from a state title. They'll be back. 

2. Lol.

3. Warren will have a massive test in Week 1. 

 

I'm thinking I have to make trip to the FWA metroplex for the WC & The Mighty Panthers of Snider game. 

[temptation]

13 minutes ago, BTF said:

1. Carmel is only four years removed from a state title. They'll be back. 

2. Lol.

3. Warren will have a massive test in Week 1. 

 

Not disputing point #3 but to my earlier point, Warren has 4-5 “massive tests” on the schedule…Snider has 2.

As @Komets2727 has reminded us frequently, I underestimated Snider last year and won’t make that mistake again.  However, I think that week #1 is much more important to Snider than it is Warren.

Warren is pretty stacked on the defensive side of the ball and has two new “unproven” players at the two most important offensive positions so catching them in week #1 may be to Snider’s benefit.

 

Edited July 10, 2024 by temptation

[BTF]

4 minutes ago, psaboy said:

I'm thinking I have to make trip to the FWA metroplex for the WC & The Mighty Panthers of Snider game. 

And a few miles down the road will be HSE/Carroll. 

[BTF]

1 minute ago, temptation said:

Warren is pretty stacked on the defensive side of the ball and has two new “unproven” players at the two most important offensive positions so catching them in week #1 may be to Snider’s benefit.

 

Same for Snider. Stocked on defense, questions on offense. I think it comes down to special teams and defensive touchdowns. 

[Komets2727]

44 minutes ago, temptation said:

I know this analogy has been made on here before and it pains me to say it, but the MIC is the high school version of the SEC.  They are invested and have many built in advantages that have been discussed as nauseam on this forum.

Does not mean an HCC school/Snider/Penn/other school CAN’T or WON’T break through, it’s just one hell of a steep climb. Above, it was discussed how the Clemson’s and Bama’s of the world have come back to the field and NIL was credited as a main reason why.

Hell, a Big Ten school won the title this year but it was a generational team from Ann Arbor that did it.  A fellow Big Ten school has gone ALL IN this season, reportedly spending $30 million on their roster for this upcoming season.  Not to be naive, but SEC schools have done that forever…similar to how MIC schools have been “all in” (see my points above) forever.

It’s going to take a generational team from outside of the “MIC 4” to dethrone them.

 

Well yeah, SEC have been paying players forever. There is a saying that “college football just means more in the SEC”. The correct version is the “SEC just pays more” for the last 20 years before NIL

[Bobref]

12 minutes ago, temptation said:

Brownsburg has broken me Bob.

And if they start, say … 5-0? We’ll see then. 😂

[psaboy]

3 minutes ago, BTF said:

And a few miles down the road will be HSE/Carroll. 

Geez, two blockbuster games to start the season. Less than 7 weeks away from season. Time fly's

[Footballking16]

51 minutes ago, BTF said:

Coaching/Administrative buy-in. Can't have one without the other. But if you have both, you're 6A title dangerous. 

North Central was by far away the biggest high school in the state in the 70’s, 80’s and into the 90’s and still to this day a top 5 enrollment high school. Not sure those guys have ever won a regional. If enrollment is everything you say it is, they would have lucked into a modicum of success just once these last 50 years. No?

Edited July 10, 2024 by Footballking16

[temptation]

4 minutes ago, BTF said:

Same for Snider. Stocked on defense, questions on offense. I think it comes down to special teams and defensive touchdowns. 

Don’t think we have the same definition of “stacked/stocked.”

Warren has 4-5 D1 guys on defense and another 1-2 that’ll play at the lower level.

Now that being said, Snider ran all over them last year and these are the same guys coming back so take that for what it’s worth.

 

4 minutes ago, Bobref said:

And if they start, say … 5-0? We’ll see then. 😂

Nah, I’ve been in wait and see mode on Brownsburg for 2 years now.  Nothing they do in August or September can impress me.

[Komets2727]

9 minutes ago, temptation said:

Not disputing point #3 but to my earlier point, Warren has 4-5 “massive tests” on the schedule…Snider has 2.

As @Komets2727 has reminded us frequently, I underestimated Snider last year and won’t make that mistake again.  However, I think that week #1 is much more important to Snider than it is Warren.

Warren is pretty stacked on the defensive side of the ball and has two new “unproven” players at the two most important offensive positions so catching them in week #1 may be to Snider’s benefit.

 

As for this year’s game, I have not went out on the limb yet, just not sure what Snider has offensively yet. If this year’s Snider offense is at least equal to last year’s offense, Snider will beat Warren again

[BTF]

Just now, Footballking16 said:

North Central was by far away the biggest high school in the state in the 70’s, 80’s and into the 90’s and still to this day a top 5 enrollment high school. Not sure those guys have ever won a regional. If enrollment is everything you say it is, they would have lucked into a modicum of success just once these last 50 years. No?

I said I was done, I have to stick with that. You're smart. Your pushback on this is perplexing to say the least. 

[BTF]

3 minutes ago, temptation said:

Warren has 4-5 D1 guys on defense and another 1-2 that’ll play at the lower level.

Snider's right there. Two D1 guys in the defensive backfield. A D2 guy on the defensive line. And two guys at linebacker going D1 in other sports. I think were close to being on the same page. 

[Komets2727]

2 minutes ago, temptation said:

Don’t think we have the same definition of “stacked/stocked.”

Warren has 4-5 D1 guys on defense and another 1-2 that’ll play at the lower level.

Now that being said, Snider ran all over them last year and these are the same guys coming back so take that for what it’s worth.

 

Nah, I’ve been in wait and see mode on Brownsburg for 2 years now.  Nothing they do in August or September can impress me.

Offensively, Snider has different personnel than last year so not the same guys. That is what makes it hard to say exactly what will happen. I knew last year that Snider would move the ball almost at will on Warren making it an “easy” pick for me. 

You are absolutely right about Brownsburg, they can go undefeated in the regular season for the next 5 years, they will be judged on playoff time only
 

[psaboy]

Thread is now delivering !!

 

5 minutes ago, BTF said:

I said I was done, I have to stick with that. You're smart. Your pushback on this is perplexing to say the least. 

Dude, never give up the fight !! 😁

[Footballking16]

53 minutes ago, temptation said:

Discussed earlier.  NC is loaded in the country club sports and had a legendary basketball coach that was adamant about his athletes being on the hardwood year round.

NC had a couple of good years under O’Shea that just happened to coincide with their basketball coach hanging em up…makes you wonder.

There’s 10-12 kids on a varsity basketball roster.  With an enrollment that size, that’s irrelevant or so I’ve been told. But yes, you’re heading down the right path. Coaching/culture/administrative buy-in etc are vastly more important than simply shouting “enrollment”. I’m inclined to agree that SES demographics play a much larger role than simply enrollment, especially at the current 6A level. There’s too many mega-enrollment schools in the state now for it to be an advantage in the largest class.

[BTF]

2 minutes ago, psaboy said:

Thread is now delivering !!

 

Dude, never give up the fight !! 😁

I can only repeat that 2+2=4 so many times. It's over. 

[PDB26]

1 hour ago, temptation said:

1.  Indy schools are never wide eyed when the tournament starts because they are tested more so than any other geographical area of the state.

2.  For the most part, Indy schools boast an enrollment advantage with a few exceptions.

3.  Coaches at Indy schools have been hired as coaches first and teachers second for decades.  Their job is to win football games so their building schedule is laughable in most cases.  They eat, breathe, and sleep football for 8+ hours per day.  Administrators don’t even hide it anymore.

4.  Indy is the population hub of the state which is why the suburban schools have also joined the conversation and in some instances surpassed the Marion County schools.

Perfect distillation of the elements that make large class football in central Indiana what it is. BD got their first full-time strength coach in 1984. Penn followed suit 32 years later. 

1 hour ago, psaboy said:

I can buy into the Penn youth leagues not being good or having poor competition outside their area. Not sure about regular season opponents, they have a weak conference, but have normally played 2-3 out of conference higher caliber teams. Why were they so dominate in the 90's/early 00's, but not know. Maybe coaching and no more Geezer?? Coaching, coaching and coaching!!!! 

All I've heard about the youth league is that they're not all running Penn's offense––which is meaningless to me. How many seniors are playing the same side of the ball, let alone the same position, that they played in elementary school?

You can't overstate the importance of the schedules that BD, Carmel, CG, and WC have played since the MIC was formed. For example, since 2000, Center Grove has played BD 32 times, Carmel, 27 times, and WC 33 times. Penn has played BD, Carmel, CG, and WC a combined 22 times in that span with the majority of those games taking place between 2000 and 2010. And then it's not like the rest of the MIC 4's conference games are all laughers either. Just think about this, Center Grove went out and added Cathedral to their in 2014. Add in the fact that when Penn plays anyone of note in the state, the JVs and freshmen turn around and play an additional game against an NIC foe.

2 hours ago, temptation said:

Penn being stuck in the past

They've played a particular style for 50 years more or less. They tried to modernize the offense to some degree during the Rich Rod era––I don't think the zone-based running game suits them at all––and I don't think that has led to any more potency on offense against top-flight competition. Even when Penn matches up well on defense against the best, the offense is almost always incapable of keeping them off the field and the defense ends up getting big-played out of the game.

[temptation]

10 hours ago, PDB26 said:

Perfect distillation of the elements that make large class football in central Indiana what it is. BD got their first full-time strength coach in 1984. Penn followed suit 32 years later. 

All I've heard about the youth league is that they're not all running Penn's offense––which is meaningless to me. How many seniors are playing the same side of the ball, let alone the same position, that they played in elementary school?

You can't overstate the importance of the schedules that BD, Carmel, CG, and WC have played since the MIC was formed. For example, since 2000, Center Grove has played BD 32 times, Carmel, 27 times, and WC 33 times. Penn has played BD, Carmel, CG, and WC a combined 22 times in that span with the majority of those games taking place between 2000 and 2010. And then it's not like the rest of the MIC 4's conference games are all laughers either. Just think about this, Center Grove went out and added Cathedral to their in 2014. Add in the fact that when Penn plays anyone of note in the state, the JVs and freshmen turn around and play an additional game against an NIC foe.

They've played a particular style for 50 years more or less. They tried to modernize the offense to some degree during the Rich Rod era––I don't think the zone-based running game suits them at all––and I don't think that has led to any more potency on offense against top-flight competition. Even when Penn matches up well on defense against the best, the offense is almost always incapable of keeping them off the field and the defense ends up getting big-played out of the game.

Great point in paragraph one.  How dare Penn prioritize being an academic institution posing as an athletic powerhouse opposed to the other way around?

Indy mega schools have no shame.  They don’t even hide it anymore.

Edited July 10, 2024 by temptation

[BDGiant93]

12 hours ago, Footballking16 said:

North Central was by far away the biggest high school in the state in the 70’s, 80’s and into the 90’s and still to this day a top 5 enrollment high school. Not sure those guys have ever won a regional. If enrollment is everything you say it is, they would have lucked into a modicum of success just once these last 50 years. No?

They advanced to the Semistate under Al Harants. Want to say...1993 or 1994.

[PDB26]

19 minutes ago, temptation said:

Great point in paragraph one.  How dare Penn prioritize being an academic institution posing as an athletic powerhouse opposed to the other way around?

I didn't see it that way and I don't think one has to come at the expense of another. There are certainly reasonable arguments for the value that a strength coach can provide to a school. The strength coach is going to come into contact with at least as many students as any of the best teachers in any given subject. I have to admit, there was always a part of me that thought it was at least a little crazy that BD had a strength coach and Coach Cory was running our offseason program.

[Bobref]

27 minutes ago, PDB26 said:

There are certainly reasonable arguments for the value that a strength coach can provide to a school.

So, does a strength coach typically interact with non-athlete students, like teaching health, phys-ed, or something like that? 

[PDB26]

1 hour ago, Bobref said:

So, does a strength coach typically interact with non-athlete students, like teaching health, phys-ed, or something like that? 

I can't say what is typical, but it seems like a strength coach could, and should, be obligated to teach some courses where they interact with non-athletes. I don't think it's a big ask.