USA Today Network media poll Week 2

[BTF]

4 hours ago, Footballking16 said:

They aren't the 2nd best team in 6A though, not even close. 

I'm not sure I'd go that far. Based on what exactly?

[Footballking16]

2 minutes ago, BTF said:

I'm not sure I'd go that far. Based on what exactly?

My belief that there are 6-8 6A teams in Central Indiana better than Crown Point, 3 or 4 of them who would all win going away. 

Edited August 27, 2024 by Footballking16

[BTF]

Just now, Footballking16 said:

My belief that there are 6-8 teams in Central Indiana better than Crown Point, 3 or 4 of them who would all win going away. 

Based on what exactly? I have a hard time accepting "my belief." What's different about them this year that makes them lessor than the team that beat Westfield last year?

1 hour ago, temptation said:

Nah, they caught Westfield on the right night.  

What was it about that night?

[Footballking16]

3 minutes ago, BTF said:

Based on what exactly? I have a hard time accepting "my belief." What's different about them this year that makes them lessor than the team that beat Westfield last year?

Obviously an opinion, but if Crown Point played a predominantly 6A Indy area schedule like the rest of the top teams in 6A, their record would reflect as such. And that record wouldn't justify a #2 ranking and all honesty likely wouldn't crack the top 2.

But then again, there is absolutely zero way to quantify this hypothetical is simply why I said it is of "my belief".

[BTF]

1 minute ago, Footballking16 said:

Obviously an opinion, but if Crown Point played a predominantly 6A Indy area schedule like the rest of the top teams in 6A, their record would reflect as such. And that record wouldn't justify a #2 ranking and all honesty likely wouldn't crack the top 2.

But then again, there is absolutely zero way to quantify this hypothetical is simply why I said it is of "my belief".

Yeah, all I'm hearing is "would" when we really don't know anything at all. Two things come to mind for me:

1.   Central Indiana historically dominates 6A

2.  Craig Buzea has only been at CP for three years and got better each year. 

[Footballking16]

3 minutes ago, BTF said:

Yeah, all I'm hearing is "would" when we really don't know anything at all. Two things come to mind for me:

Right. Hence why I have repeatedly called it an opinion. 

Edited August 27, 2024 by Footballking16

[FastpacedO]

6 minutes ago, BTF said:

Yeah, all I'm hearing is "would" when we really don't know anything at all. Two things come to mind for me:

1.   Central Indiana historically dominates 6A

2.  Craig Buzea has only been at CP for three years and got better each year. 

Really not much to base Crown Point off of. In 2021 CP lost to Merrillville 29-13 in Sectional Round 1, Merrillville went on to lose to Westfield 48-19 in Semi State. In 2022 CP lost to Lafayette Jeff in Sectionals Championship  Laf Jeff lost to State Runner-up Carroll. 2023 CP beat Westfield in 2 OT then was beat soundly by Ben Davis. Having watched the games there is no way Brownsburg should have lost to Ben Davis as they were controlling that game. Both Cathedral and Center Grove gave Ben Davis very tight games. In my opinion had Crown Point played Brownsburg, Center Grove, or Cathedral instead of Ben Davis they would have been beaten soundly. That of course is my opinion.

[BTF]

3 minutes ago, FastpacedO said:

Really not much to base Crown Point off of. In 2021 CP lost to Merrillville 29-13 in Sectional Round 1, Merrillville went on to lose to Westfield 48-19 in Semi State. In 2022 CP lost to Lafayette Jeff in Sectionals Championship  Laf Jeff lost to State Runner-up Carroll. 2023 CP beat Westfield in 2 OT then was beat soundly by Ben Davis. Having watched the games there is no way Brownsburg should have lost to Ben Davis as they were controlling that game. Both Cathedral and Center Grove gave Ben Davis very tight games. In my opinion had Crown Point played Brownsburg, Center Grove, or Cathedral instead of Ben Davis they would have been beaten soundly. That of course is my opinion.

You don't think Crown Point is more like Brownsburg, Cathedral, or Center Grove? Ben Davis and all their speed burners are a nightmare in the perfect environment. Get them out in a snowstorm, real man's football, and it's a different story. 

[scarab527]

If I never hear the phrases “caught them on the right night”, “no way they should have lost”, or anything similar again, I’ll be a happy man. 
 

Though I will say CP should not be ranked #2 in 6A.

[Komets2727]

11 minutes ago, BTF said:

You don't think Crown Point is more like Brownsburg, Cathedral, or Center Grove? Ben Davis and all their speed burners are a nightmare in the perfect environment. Get them out in a snowstorm, real man's football, and it's a different story. 

BD’s speed didn’t do them any good against Cathedral, just saying. Until Snider scores some points this year, I am not entertaining any thought of them being in the top 10. 

[FastpacedO]

4 minutes ago, BTF said:

You don't think Crown Point is more like Brownsburg, Cathedral, or Center Grove? Ben Davis and all their speed burners are a nightmare in the perfect environment. Get them out in a snowstorm, real man's football, and it's a different story. 

1.) Absolutely not and they have not proven to be yet.

2.) Except Brownsburg, Cathedral, and Center Grove played Ben Davis on turf fields with no snowstorm or even rain. All 3 matched Ben Davis speed very well. 

Ben Davis 38 Crown Point 10

Ben Davis 37 Center Grove 34 in OT (speaks for itself)

Ben Davis 27 Cathedral 24 (Cathedral drove down the field throwing an Int in the end-zone to end the game)

Ben Davis 28 Brownsburg 25 (Brownsburg controlled most of the game)

[Footballking16]

11 minutes ago, scarab527 said:

If I never hear the phrases “caught them on the right night”, “no way they should have lost”, or anything similar again, I’ll be a happy man.

Why? It's perfectly fine to use when applicable. Absolutely no shame in saying Crown Point was better than Westfield on that night.

Do I think if Crown Point played a full HCC schedule and then Carmel, Noblesville, and HSE back to back to back weeks in the playoffs they go 13-1 last year? Absolutely not and I don't think many would argue that either. But that's irrelevant. In the playoffs, all CP had to do was be better than Westfield on that night. And they were. And that's all that matters. 

Edited August 27, 2024 by Footballking16

[scarab527]

4 minutes ago, Footballking16 said:

Why? It's perfectly fine to use when applicable. Absolutely no shame in saying Crown Point was better than Westfield on that night.

Do I think if Crown Point played a full HCC schedule and then Carmel, Noblesville, and HSE back to back to back weeks in the playoffs they go 13-1 last year? Absolutely not and I don't think many would argue that either. But that's irrelevant. In the playoffs, all CP had to do was be better than Westfield on that night. And they were. And that's all that matters. 

Thank you for reiterating my exact point. 

[BTF]

42 minutes ago, Footballking16 said:

Why? It's perfectly fine to use when applicable. Absolutely no shame in saying Crown Point was better than Westfield on that night.

Do I think if Crown Point played a full HCC schedule and then Carmel, Noblesville, and HSE back to back to back weeks in the playoffs they go 13-1 last year? Absolutely not and I don't think many would argue that either. But that's irrelevant. In the playoffs, all CP had to do was be better than Westfield on that night. And they were. And that's all that matters. 

At the semi-state level, it's hard to sell me on the "that night" argument............unless there was a snow or rain storm. Normally at that level teams put their best foot forward knowing a weekend in downtown Indy is right around the corner. Valpo was better than Snider or Carroll was better than HSE "that night" could apply considering the weather conditions. But if I recall, semi-state last year was played under pretty decent weather conditions? Crown Point had the Rocks playing catch up the entire night. 

[Footballking16]

15 minutes ago, BTF said:

At the semi-state level, it's hard to sell me on the "that night" argument............unless there was a snow or rain storm. Normally at that level teams put their best foot forward knowing a weekend in downtown Indy is right around the corner. Valpo was better than Snider or Carroll was better than HSE "that night" could apply considering the weather conditions. But if I recall, semi-state last year was played under pretty decent weather conditions? Crown Point had the Rocks playing catch up the entire night. 

Lol there's plenty of reasons why it could apply:

1) 1 team has to take a 2.5 hour bus drive to play

2) 1 team is dealing with wear and tear having played one of the hardest schedules in the state for 3 months straight while the other has had a relative coast all the way up to their biggest game of the year

3) Most importantly, we're talking abut 15, 16, 17 year old high school-aged kids where anything can happen on any given night.

Crown Point undoubtedly deserved to win their game against Westfield, but extrapolating one result against the best team they had played to date all year doesn't always hold water.

Edited August 27, 2024 by Footballking16

[temptation]

Zero non-Indy 6A teams get the benefit of the doubt from me until they do it consistently.  Call me whatever you want.

As teams lose, rankings shuffle and you can’t really punish a team that continues to win against the teams on its schedule but Crown Point at #2 is laughable.

Hell, I felt guilty putting em in front of BD and CG in my poll.

 Seems like we have this conversation every year.  
 

Only thing missing is “ rankings don’t matter” guy.

[scarab527]

30 minutes ago, BTF said:

At the semi-state level, it's hard to sell me on the "that night" argument............unless there was a snow or rain storm. Normally at that level teams put their best foot forward knowing a weekend in downtown Indy is right around the corner. Valpo was better than Snider or Carroll was better than HSE "that night" could apply considering the weather conditions. But if I recall, semi-state last year was played under pretty decent weather conditions? Crown Point had the Rocks playing catch up the entire night. 

Pretty ironic comment seeing as you were just talking “real man’s football”. But anything to excuse that Snider loss to Valpo a couple years ago, right? Except of course to just admit Valpo was better. 

Edited August 27, 2024 by scarab527

[scarab527]

2 minutes ago, temptation said:

Zero non-Indy 6A teams get the benefit of the doubt from me until they do it consistently.  Call me whatever you want.

As teams lose, rankings shuffle and you can’t really punish a team that continues to win against the teams on its schedule but Crown Point at #2 is laughable.

Hell, I felt guilty putting em in front of BD and CG in my poll.

 Seems like we have this conversation every year.  
 

Only thing missing is “ rankings don’t matter” guy.

A team from 6A north has beaten a top tier HCC team for high stakes the past 2 seasons. 
 

I agree with your general point, I think CP at 2 is ridiculous, but I think the conversation needs to be had that maybe the HCC teams are a tad overrated. Or that the north is catching up to them. 

[temptation]

32 minutes ago, BTF said:

At the semi-state level, it's hard to sell me on the "that night" argument............unless there was a snow or rain storm. Normally at that level teams put their best foot forward knowing a weekend in downtown Indy is right around the corner. Valpo was better than Snider or Carroll was better than HSE "that night" could apply considering the weather conditions. But if I recall, semi-state last year was played under pretty decent weather conditions? Crown Point had the Rocks playing catch up the entire night. 

Correct me if I’m wrong, but haven’t you repeatedly cited how lucky Snider was lucky to get past Mishawaka in the tournament last year?

How is my comment about Westfield/Crown Point any different?

[BTF]

4 minutes ago, scarab527 said:

Pretty ironic comment seeing as you were just talking “real man’s football”. But anything to excuse that Snider loss to Valpo a couple years ago, right? Except of course to just admit Valpo was better. 

Lol, figured I'd touch a nerve there. Snider's a small version of Ben Davis, they'll thrive in perfect conditions. Same with Merrillville. If the Pirates make it to Indy, watch out. 

[scarab527]

Just now, BTF said:

Lol, figured I'd touch a nerve there. Snider's a small version of Ben Davis, they'll thrive in perfect conditions. Same with Merrillville. If the Pirates make it to Indy, watch out. 

Brother you’re the one who keeps bringing that game up because clearly it still hurts you. 
 

Calling out blatantly contradictory comments is not “touching a nerve”. 

[BTF]

3 minutes ago, temptation said:

Correct me if I’m wrong, but haven’t you repeatedly cited how lucky Snider was lucky to get past Mishawaka in the tournament last year?

How is my comment about Westfield/Crown Point any different?

First tell me why you think Westfield had an off night. I'll tell you right now, Snider almost losing to Mishawaka had nothing to do with lack of effort. 

1 minute ago, scarab527 said:

Brother you’re the one who keeps bringing that game up because clearly it still hurts you. 
 

Calling out blatantly contradictory comments is not “touching a nerve”. 

I also brought something else up that I haven't mentioned in the past. Let's just say that HSE had a major disadvantage against Carroll that I think may have affected the outcome. 

[BTF]

Be right back. I'm about to be in trouble with WC Grad. 

[Titan32]

2 hours ago, TigerFan20 said:

As of now for S32, it is probably:

1. Heritage Hills

2. Memorial

3. Gibson Southern

Will be intrigued on these teams progress through the regular season. I believe Heritage Hills is heading over to Louisville to face a defending State Champ and Memorial is headed over to face a big North team this Friday. 

And GS is hosting a State Champ runner up from last season.

[Footballking16]

1 minute ago, BTF said:

First tell me why you think Westfield had an off night. I'll tell you right now, Snider almost losing to Mishawaka had nothing to do with lack of effort. 

Has anyone actually claimed that Westfield had an off-night? Rather I've seen several posters come to the consensus that Crown Point was the better team that night and deserved to win.

However, and correct me if I'm wrong, you're the poster who claimed Crown Point would have been the second best team in the HCC based on one result? Again extrapolation to this degree doesn't always work the way you think it does.